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Andrew Suffield | 1 Oct 2003 01:11
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Bug#210879: constitution.txt: fractured developers

On Tue, Sep 30, 2003 at 06:23:52PM -0400, Alfie Costa wrote:
> Mr. A. Suffield says:
> 
> >> The constitution is in prose, and because prose is different from
> >> math, ts norms and standards are different.  Sometimes very
> >> different.
> 
> >Which is why we discuss numbers using mathematical terminology, as is
> >standard for technical prose.
> 
> Is a constitution technical prose now?

What else do you expect it to be? The only other practical form is
legal.

> >> Integer has more than one meaning
> 
> >Only if you're an idiot. Integer has precisely one meaning, and it is
> >a synonym of "whole number". The set of integers is the union of the
> >set of natural numbers and the set composed by subtracting every
> >natural number from zero.
> 
> What you're doing is redefining an old word in terms of a newer more

You are wrong.

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Santiago Vila | 1 Oct 2003 01:58
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Re: Question about your OS name

Dave McEwen wrote:

>      I was just wondering if you could tell me where the name of your
> operating system, Debian came from? Thanks

It comes from the names Debra and Ian, from Ian Murdock, who started
the project, and Debra, his wife. This is what the Debian FAQ says.

There is another theory which says the name really comes from the
spanish word "Debían", as in "Debían haberlo inventado antes", which
is to say "They should have invented it before" :-)
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Michelle Konzack | 1 Oct 2003 01:42
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Re: Question about your OS name

Am 2003-09-30 22:19:04, schrieb Dave McEwen:
>Hello there
>    I was just wondering if you could tell me where the name of your 
>operating system, Debian came from? Thanks
>
>dave

Deb(ora) 
Ian

Ian is the fondateur of Debian and Debora his wife

Michelle

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Peter Karlsson | 1 Oct 2003 07:26
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Re: Question about your OS name

Dave McEwen:

>      I was just wondering if you could tell me where the name of your
> operating system, Debian came from? Thanks

That information, and more, can be found at
<URL:http://www.debian.org/intro/about#history>

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Jacobo Tarrio | 1 Oct 2003 10:25

Bug#210879: constitution.txt: fractured developers

O Martes, 30 de Setembro de 2003 ás 18:26:18 -0400, Alfie Costa escribía:

> >developers using a mathematical formula. It is later compared to a
> >natural number, "number of developers"
> Deja vu.  Could it be that you stopped reading my uninteresting
> post after finishing the first paragraph?  I included K's formula a

 No, just after your second attempt to argue with the dictionary.

> >in fact  describing the rounding rules for K would probably be quite
> >cumbersome and prone to subtle errors (as well as useful for nothing).
> The question of whether or not K is being rounded is still
> controversial.  Even more so is the question of WHY it's controversial.

 It's not controversial at all unless you are extremely bored and need to
invent a controversy to keep yourself busy.

 What exactly don't you understand? K is not rounded. You need not round it
to compare it.

 The constitution says "at least K developers". That means "K developers or
more". The meaning of that is unambiguous even if it is not possible to have
exactly K developers.

> Anyway, I say it's being rounded, and the language is already verbose
> and obscure.  Such obscurity leads to odd controversies like this
> thread.  Clarifying it would indeed be worthwhile, if only to set a
> better example.

 It needs no clarification since the language is perfectly clear, even to
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Alfie Costa | 1 Oct 2003 23:52
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Bug#210879: constitution.txt: fractured developers

J. Tarrio's valiant keyboard replied:

> > Deja vu.  Could it be that you stopped reading my uninteresting
> > post after finishing the first paragraph?  I included K's formula a

> No, just after your second attempt to argue with the dictionary.

"The" Dictionary.  "A" dictionary or "some" dictionaries would be more correct. 
All dictionaries are fallible and can argued with, and that's why there's so 
many of them; every new dictionary is like a new artist trying to paint the 
same language and show the things the last artist left out, without the former 
painter's excesses.  Alas, since you're not reading whole messages you probably 
missed my little survey of various dictionaries disagreeing.

> It's not controversial at all unless you are extremely bored and need to
> invent a controversy to keep yourself busy.

Therefore you'd be wasting valuable time publicly giving a troublemaker who's 
trying to goad you more of the attention he craves.  The usenet slang for that 
is "feeding the Troll."  I wouldn't attempt to dispute with a "flat earther" 
because to me it's settled that the earth is round.

> It needs no clarification since the language is perfectly clear, even to
> someone who has English as his third language, like me. 

Thanks for the explanation, I had suspicions, but judging folks by last names 
(or even domain names) is impolite here in melting pot USA.  Your English is 
pretty good then!  However, your vocabulary of meanings is necessarily smaller 
than a native's, and various nuances and connotations are invisible for you.  
To you this must indeed seem "perfectly clear", and shows you to be an honest
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Florian Weimer | 1 Oct 2003 22:33
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Bug#210879: constitution.txt: fractured developers

Colin Watson wrote:

> I only did one year of maths at Cambridge, but in the conventionally
> agreed terminology there the set of natural numbers was definitely not
> defined to include zero. Peano's first axiom is "1 is a natural number",
> not "0 is a natural number".

It's an Emacs vs. vi issue.

> I think you're confusing "different interpretation of disagreed
> terminology" with "wrong". The membership of zero in the set of natural
> numbers is a matter of disagreed terminology.

Mathematics is nothing but terminology, but some terminology is so
awkward that it's just wrong (maybe not false, but still wrong 8-).
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Daniel Burrows | 3 Oct 2003 05:24
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Bug#210879: constitution.txt: fractured developers

  I'm completely lost on this thread, and I suspect a lot of other
people are.  I never entirely understood what your initial problem was,
and the subsequent bickering is getting ridiculous.  (not to mention
that it's going nowhere)

  I would like to politely request that you state your problem clearly
(I don't see "Squad Helps Dog Bite Victim" anywhere in the Constitution)
or kill this thread and bug now.

  I might add that you will probably get a less frosty reception if you
avoid grandstanding about how Debian developers are clueless
programmers who don't know how to write.  Regardless of whether you
believe it to be true, attacks (or percieved attacks) on your audience
are pretty much at the top of the list of ways to get yourself ignored.

  Daniel

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Debian Bug Tracking System | 3 Oct 2003 06:03
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Bug#210879: marked as done (constitution.txt: revise odd language -- "K Developers"... "not integers")

Your message dated Fri, 3 Oct 2003 04:51:50 +0100
with message-id <20031003035150.GB2716 <at> doc.ic.ac.uk>
and subject line Bug#210879: constitution.txt: fractured developers
has caused the attached Bug report to be marked as done.

This means that you claim that the problem has been dealt with.
If this is not the case it is now your responsibility to reopen the
Bug report if necessary, and/or fix the problem forthwith.

(NB: If you are a system administrator and have no idea what I am
talking about this indicates a serious mail system misconfiguration
somewhere.  Please contact me immediately.)

Debian bug tracking system administrator
(administrator, Debian Bugs database)

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Martin Michlmayr - Debian Project Leader | 3 Oct 2003 13:48
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Re: Debian(tm) and cybersquatters

* Lars Wirzenius <liw <at> liw.iki.fi> [2003-09-17 13:08]:
> I don't know if it is relevant that debian.fi was registered two weeks
> ago by someone in Finlan. The rules for new domains in .fi were relaxed
> on that day.

Could you contact him and politely ask what he intends to do with the
domain?
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