Scott Robinson | 1 Apr 01:11 2004

Re: The new broken world of 2.6, ALSA, and hotplug.

* Marco d'Itri translated into ASCII [Thu, Apr 01, 2004 at 12:23:10AM +0200][<20040331222310.GA19100 <at>>]
> On Mar 31, Scott Robinson <scott <at>> wrote:
> > However, the simple fact that hotplug's enumeration occurs even in single
> > user mode is another example of the core issue. When (not if) the PCI
> > enumeration breaks a system, a user cannot recover without an separate boot
> > system of some sort.
> Then it's a kernel bug. The drivers cannot be loaded later because they
> will be needed e.g. for configuring the network.
> init=/bin/bash is more than enough for recovering, BTW.

A newbie would run with the recovery option as most commonly presented.
(single user mode, as is specified in all sorts of docs and GRUB defaults.)

That said, if something is screwed so fundamentally, they'd have to get
support from someone who knew anyway.

> > ===> This part of the packaging will be improved. <===
> And it has, check the package I uploaded today. (And READ THE CHANGELOG.)

Hmm. That was from the README.Debian that I downloaded today. (0.023-2)

I guess I'll have to wait until -3 percolates through the system.

> > Why not support devfs and traditional style naming simultaneously?
> Why not? Read again README.Debian and you will learn how to do it.

I was talking about out of the box. But, someone else already responded why
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Adam Heath | 1 Apr 01:16 2004

Re: rmail, m-t-a, and uucp

On Tue, 30 Mar 2004, Manoj Srivastava wrote:

> >> Then why does it talk about Enhances?
> 	Because a) the practice exists, b) any package can use Exists
>  without breaking anything, and convey information to the user, and c)
>  it emphasizes what I said above.

And when the dpkg(and other) tools implement enhances in a way that compatible
with existing uses of it, then it will have been policy's fault for suggesting
the use of enhances, without any implementation to point to.

Moray Allan | 1 Apr 01:06 2004

Bug#241343: ITP: apt-gentoo -- enhanced package installation

Package: wnpp
Severity: wishlist

* Package name    : apt-gentoo
  Version         : 0.0.1
* URL             :
* License         : GPL version 2 or above
  Description     : enhanced package installation

 apt-gentoo enhances the Debian package installation experience to make
 it fully competitive with newly-popular source-based distributions.

 As packages are installed, apt-gentoo automatically downloads their
 build logs from the buildd network. The logs are then slowly scrolled
 past on the user's terminal to simulate building the software on the
 local machine.

 apt-gentoo optionally, and by default, gives increased realism by
 spinning the CPU in a tight loop between build log lines, and writing
 large files to disk.

 An additional utility apt-gentoo-benchmark is included to tune the
 delay loops for your hardware by finding the length of time taken by
 typical compiler and linker runs. (On slow or low-memory hardware we
 recommend leaving these values at their defaults.)

 A preliminary package of apt-gentoo is available at

(Continue reading)

Sebastian Ley | 1 Apr 01:14 2004

Re: When does a conflict become outdated?

Am Mi, den 31.03.2004 schrieb Matt Zimmerman um 20:29:

> > Why? What harm is it doing? And don't say "bloat": the space taken by
> > all the outdated conflicts combined could be easily compensated for
> > by removing, say one IRC client. Or one editor. Or one module from
> > xscreensaver.
> It degrades the readability of the dependency relationships, and distracts
> the maintainer from the important ones.

I do not remember offhand, but IIRC we _ensure_ upgrade paths only from
one version to a subsequent one. So anything beyond this is a bonus for
the maintainer to decide. I agree that removing cruft from the
dependencies improves readability and should thus be considered by



Fingerprint: A46A 753F AEDC 2C01 BE6E  F6DB 97E0 3309 9FD6 E3E6

Henning Makholm | 1 Apr 01:26 2004

Re: Accepting .Xdefaults by default

Scripsit Jacobo221 <jacobo221 <at>>

> Currently, Debian doesn't support ~/.Xdefaults but does support
> ~/.Xresources. The ways to walk around this are to soft link or to change
> it's name.

Beware! The intended semantics of .Xresources and .Xdefaults is *not
the same*!

.Xresources is meant to be loaded into the X *server* when a user logs
in. It will affect all clients started during the X session, even
clients running on remote machines.

.Xdefaults is loaded locally by each *client* as it starts up. Settings
in it will affect all clients *running* on that machine and account,
even if they connect to a remote server.

Each kind of settings is useful, and I daresay that there are Debian
users out there who depend on the ability to define either kind of
settings - even though the vast majority are probably not aware of the
difference, and many of them misuse the files because they don't know
the difference.

If you read the manpage X(7x) you'll find that Debian does not use the
name .Xdefaults bu default, but instead .Xdefaults-<hostname>. That is
presumably intentional. You should be able to override this by setting
$XENVIRONMENT in your .profile or .login file. If that does not work
(and you're sure its not your own fault, or the individual
application's), file a bug report against libXt6.

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Steve Greenland | 1 Apr 01:32 2004

Re: Giving up with SVN? [Re: Strange problems with]

On 31-Mar-04, 14:04 (CST), Sylvain LE GALL <sylvain.le-gall <at>> wrote: 
> I think the problem comes from nss_ldap itself ( i have exactly the
> problem describe, 2 day ago, and i have problem with gdm when logging
> off, because of this kind of bugs, i have also a segfault with cron
> regularly ).

Regarding cron, it's not a segfault, but an uncaught signal. Nss_ldap
opens connections and doesn't properly catch errors. Use nscd (or
whatever the name service caching daemon is called).



Steve Greenland
    The irony is that Bill Gates claims to be making a stable operating
    system and Linus Torvalds claims to be trying to take over the
    world.       -- seen on the net

Goswin von Brederlow | 1 Apr 01:54 2004

Re: updates to the base system packages list

Matthias Urlichs <smurf <at>> writes:

> Hi, Goswin von Brederlow wrote:
> > Last time I tried the kernel pppoe my DSL was baned for a day. Anyone else
> > have that effect? (germany, T-online)
> Wrong password, unrelated to which flavor of pppoe you're using.
> I had to go back to the deprecated version for a few hours last month when
> my gateway's power supply broke down. There were absolutely no problems
> either way, both worked perfectly, though if you don't have a pre-built
> setup available the in-kernel driver IMHO is somewhat easier to configure
> correctly.

How so? Looks both pretty much the same for me:


  pty "pppoe -I eth1 -T 80"

with (from memory)

  plugin /usr/lib/pppd/2.4.2/

Or am I doing something wrong chaning from user mode to kernel mode?

(Continue reading)

Rene Engelhard | 1 Apr 01:59 2004

Re: Accepted gimp 2.0.0-1 (i386 source all)


Ari Pollak wrote:
> Changes: 
>  gimp (2.0.0-1) unstable; urgency=low
>  .
>    * New upstream release
>      - Closes: #21393, #29375, #64000, #70461, #101266, #108834, #200357
>      - Closes: #109344, #111128, #114716, #117061, #117866, #112053
>      - Closes: #119073, #121437, #128968, #144324, #145503, #110274
>      - Closes: #147693, #150451, #151994, #152072, #153631, #179951
>      - Closes: #154022, #154722, #157265, #157265, #158629, #198677
>      - Closes: #169328, #161959, #169541, #169914, #233105, #199101
>      - Closes: #211355, #191762, #183711, #176648, #175692, #183706, #201432


Could you please write sane changelogs (i.e. mention what those bugs are
about?). Changelogs should describe changes and mostly tell people what
has changed even though they don't have network connection to actually
look up those bugs (besides this is annoying for that huge number)

it's not that hard and if you see the bug and notice it is fixed you
could write a few letters more to write an explanation....



(Continue reading)

Henning Makholm | 1 Apr 01:47 2004

Re: Release update

Scripsit Patrice Fortier <Patrice.Fortier <at>>
> Le mar 30/03/2004 à 17:02, Javier Fernández-Sanguino Peña a écrit :

> > This is really a FAQ item, you should not remove all of the items,
> > just the start links so the status is preserved on upgrades.

> As it is said, it's really not intuitive.
> What is the reason for this behaviour?

It is easy to implement in update-rc.d without needing specific
support from the maintainer scripts to tell it whether the
package is being installed anew or just updated (or resurrected from
removed-but-not-purged state).

Henning Makholm          "Jeg har tydeligt gjort opmærksom på, at man ved at
                   følge den vej kun bliver gennemsnitligt ca. 48 år gammel,
               og at man sætter sin sociale situation ganske overstyr og, så
           vidt jeg kan overskue, dør i dybeste ulykkelighed og elendighed."


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Tollef Fog Heen | 1 Apr 02:24 2004

Re: Re: Ancient architecture

* Steve Greenland 

| On 31-Mar-04, 02:37 (CST), Tollef Fog Heen <tfheen <at>> wrote: 
| > | Uploading a new source to just fix a non-important typo (somewhere in the
| > | docs or similar) is just insane. 
| > 
| > Why?  It might be insane, but it might also be the way to close a bug,
| > which for me has value in itself.
| Even if you don't care about the buildd load, you should care about the
| people who will download the new package to get the rather minor fix.

If you run unstable, well, then you run unstable.  If you run unstable
and whine about bandwidth usage, then unstable isn't for you.  Or you
can check the changelogs on, or something like


Tollef Fog Heen                                                        ,''`.
UNIX is user friendly, it's just picky about who its friends are      : :' :
                                                                      `. `'