Venkatraman Ns | 21 Aug 17:01 2014
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[IAC#RG] Fwd: WHITHER RIGHT TO INFORMATION ?


 
To
 
 
 India Against Corruption                                 

                                                                                                WHITHER  RIGHT  TO INFORMATION ?

 

The  RTI Act , which was once hailed as the ultimate weapon  in the hands of the citizens to fight for probity in public life,  has now lost its sheen. The  bureaucracy has effectively nullified this Act by it’s calculated  tactics.  The Information Commissioners who are supposed to ensure the implementation of the RTI Act in letter and spirit are  really the   employed tools  to sabotage the RTI Act. They  are  the   carefully  chosen  ex bureaucrats or those with political and official patronage,  who are put on the job to defeat the letter and spirit of the RTI Act and frustrate the RTI Activists.

Now, the ground reality is that  most of  the letters seeking information under RTI Act  are not acknowledged at all or a reply is sent at the end of 30 days stating that the letters should be addressed to some other section. The endless cycle goes on.

On many occasions, the complaints sent to the Information Commissioners are also  not acknowledged or routinely forwarded to the so called Appellate  authority in the government department, who seldom respond. The net effect is that the thousands of letters seeking information under RTI  Act now remain unanswered and are gathering dust.

Some RTI activists who persist with the same letters for several months get tired  and have no alternative other than withdrawing from their efforts.  

Under such circumstances, when nothing works ,  people tend to think that only street demonstrations and violence will work in this country to get any response from the government departments.  Anna Hazare and AAP  exploited such people’s frustration for some time and they themselves have been exposed now, as they have proved themselves to be no different from the average politician of India. 

In such circumstances, there is no alternative other than the committed individuals resisting corruption and demand for bribery at individual  level. This calls for sacrifice. The question is how many are willing to do this  and with the media largely ignoring such efforts , whatever resistance  put up by individuals remain largely unpublicised and unnoticed.

 

Those who long for probity in public life should  not lose heart and  they should resist the demand for corruption from whatever quarters in day today life  and make themselves role models for others to emulate.  A few individuals fighting for the cause in every small town, village and city would certainly keep the ray of hope alive

 

N.S.Venkataraman

Nandini Voice For The Deprived

Chennai

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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Dwarka PropPoint | 21 Aug 13:02 2014
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[IAC#RG] Off-Topic: for Army / IESMs, 2-BHK AWHO Dwarka flat for sale

For Army / Defence / IESMs only

This is a unique / rare offer for IAC's Army / Defence / IESMs to get a ready constructed 900 sqft 2-BHK premium flat in Delhi - (AWHO Ranjeet Vihar-1 Sector 22 Dwarka Delhi) at well below the actual market rates of 85-90 lakhs.

http://delhi.localnexo.in/p24635598-2-bhk-flat-awho-sector-22-dwarka-85-lakhs-for-sale

For early bird very special price to India Against Corruption subscribers, reply / contact.

(Sarabjit / Moderators) please approve and circulate to your IESMs subscribers

Ravi
M : 7503101908
SPZ Internet Placements
New Delhi
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Sarbajit Roy | 21 Aug 05:14 2014
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Re: [IAC#RG] [#TWH-601-99561]: Report of abusive counterfeiting of domain CDAC.IN for phishing etc

Dear Bigrock

Thanks for this intimation.

We found that about 37,000 webpages (out of 44,000) on the CDAC
sub-domain "gistwiki.cdac.in" were infected by wikimedia's malware,
which has now been stopped.by Registrant by disabling the sub-domain's
access to the zone as we had suggested.

We are very concerned though that CDAC had taken great pains to
obstruct us from chronicling the extent of malware infestation /
distribution from their domain by filing a false and motivated report
to NIXI so as to get the honeypot domain name CDACPUNE.IN shut down.

We are also concerned that senior officers of NIXI and DEITY are
collaborating to distribute spyware at behest of NATGRID from .IN
domain names to illegally spy on Indian citizens by continuing to
distribute highly obscene pornography from Wikimedia's Indian computer
resources.

Sarbajit

On 8/20/14, BigRock Abuse Desk <abuse@...> wrote:
> Hi Sarbajit,
>
> Thank you for contacting us.
>
> The concerned registrant is complying to our notification and has removed
> the reported content. Additionally, we have asked him to take timely
> precautions to avoid recurrence of such issue.
>
> Regards,
> BigRock Abuse Desk
>
> Ticket Details
> ________________________________
> Ticket ID: TWH-601-99561
> Status: Closed
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pavan nair | 19 Aug 09:05 2014
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[IAC#RG] Indian investment in US Bonds

Dear Sarbajit,

     I came across a report in the Economic Times of today regarding the subject. Here is the link.


I find it inexplicable that we have been borrowing money from NRIs at rates OF up to 9% per annum for NRO/NRE accounts and lending money to the US government in the form of US treasuries at very low rates of about 2%. The lending to the US has increased by 19% in the last financial year. The external debt stands at 440.6 billion dollars as on 31 March 2014 and has risen substantially primarily on account of increased NRI investment which stands at 103.8 billion dollars. The reserves are at about 320 billion dollars which includes the NRI borrowing. This amounts to a loss of taxpayer money since we need to buy dollars at existing market rates to payout the interest to NRIs. There seems to be an arrangement with the US government in return for something unknown, otherwise why should a poor and indebted country like India lend more to the US than developed countries like France, Canada and Germany. We need to retire debt so that debt servicing which is at about 25 billion dollars per annum can be reduced. May I request you and through you, other members of the list for their views as also what action can be taken. Has the Governor RBI got the authority to invest or is it a Cabinet decision. Regards. Pavan Nair

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Sarbajit Roy | 17 Aug 08:11 2014
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Re: [IAC#RG] Confirmation: 00081602->Report of abusive counterfeiting of domain CDAC.IN for phishing etc

To:
1) IN Registry
2) Abuse@...
3) Nodal officer - CDAC.IN

cc: Dr. Gulshan Rai (Director General E-Security/GoI) for information.

Dear Sirs,

As new of this outrage on CDAC.IN website spreads among our members, I
am being informed that even web pages of Lord Krishna and Lord Shiva
have not been spared by these rascals on website CDAC.IN unchecked
since 2012.

URL http://gistwiki.cdac.in/GISTEnWiki/index.php?title=Shiva
URL http://gistwiki.cdac.in/GISTEnWiki/index.php?title=Krishna

The perpetrators are clearly anti-national persons intent of dividing
the secular fabric of India since they have not similarly defaced the
CDAC webpage for Lord Christ.

URL http://gistwiki.cdac.in/GISTEnWiki/index.php?title=Christ

Accordingly, I am attaching similar PDF screen shots for these web
pages also, so that the extent of the scandal in CDAC Pune can be
investigated and its perpetrators prosecuted under India Penal Code
and IT Act.

As such, it is highly necessary that domain name CDAC.IN is suspended
immediately in the national interest and to preserve public law and
order. It is outrageous that a website / domain directly under
Ministry of Information Technology is being used for such purposes and
for at least 2 years to offend the people of India.

Kindly take steps immediately as prescribed.

Er. Sarbajit Roy
National Convenor,
India Against Corruption, jan andolan
B-59 Defence Colony
New Delhi 110024
Tel : +91-8010205897

 ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0h7MH6:

On 8/17/14, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@...> wrote:
> To:
> 1) IN Registry
> 2) Abuse@...
> 3) Nodal officer - CDAC.IN
>
> cc: Dr. Gulshan Rai (Director General E-Security/GoI) for information.
>
> Dear Sirs,
>
> Further to my recent email on this issue, my colleagues just inform me
> that the CDAC.IN website page for "ALLAH" (ie. the sole God of Islam)
> has been similarly defaced / hacked since Sept 2012 seemingly by a
> registered user.of CDAC with user name "Ostensibly1".
>
> URL is http://gistwiki.cdac.in/GISTEnWiki/index.php?title=Allah
>
> I am attaching the PDF screenshots from the CDAC.IN website, and also
> from Google.com, as ex-facie evidence.
>
> As this is now an extremely serious matter affecting the religious
> sensibilities of almost every Indian citizen, I am hereby calling upon
> all of you (jointly or severally) to immediately suspend the .IN
> domain name "CDAC.IN" and block its abusive contents in the national
> interest, and refer this matter to the appropriate committees under IT
> Act or IN domain.policy framework or new National Cybercrime Policy
> etc for inquiry / investigation.
>
> I am also marking a copy of this email to Dr. Gulshan Rai and his team
> at the Ministry of IT for their knowledge.
>
> Er. Sarbajit Roy
> National Convenor,
> India Against Corruption, jan andolan
> B-59 Defence Colony
> New Delhi 110024
> Tel : +91-8010205897
>
>  ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0h7MH6:
>
> On 8/17/14, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@...> wrote:
>> To:
>> 1) IN Registry
>> 2) Abuse@...
>> 3) Nodal officer - CDAC.IN
>>
>> Dear Sirs,
>>
>> We thank you for registering this case promptly in IN Registry.
>>
>> We wish to further advise you that in our opinion the domain name
>> "CDAC.IN" which is a high profile domain name directly under the
>> Ministry of Information Technology, and which website has an extremely
>> high page rank of "8" on Google search engine, is having its web pages
>> being secretly sold by corrupt officers of CDAC Pune for SEO (Search
>> Engine Optimisation) to anti-national foreign interests.
>>
>> In the process, almost each and every abusive practice prohibited by
>> the .IN anti-abuse policy is taking place from this domain name
>> CDAC.IN, which is a reserved name for the Ministry of Defence, but
>> which C-DAC is cyber-squatting on since 2005.
>>
>> It is pertinent to mention that the Director General of C-DAC, one Mr.
>> Rajat Moona formerly of the Department of Computer Science and
>> Engineering (CSE), IIT Kanpur, is the prime person responsible for the
>> corrupt private sale of CDAC.IN web pages to international BOTNET
>> cartels and cyber spammers, without care or regard if these persons
>> promote grossly offensive content which hurts the sensibilities of
>> Indian citizens over CDAC.IN's cyber resources or violate Indian laws.
>>
>> By way of example of the corruption of Mr. Rajat Moona, who appears to
>> be in the pay and pocket of US spammers and pornographers such as
>> Wikimedia foundation Inc. I am citing the case of the following URL
>> under CDAC.IN domain name
>>
>> http://gistwiki.cdac.in/GISTEnWiki/index.php?title=Sai_Baba_of_Shirdi
>>
>> The PDF screen shot is attached herewith and contains malicious links
>> to tens of misleading.pornographic, online gambling and fake loan or
>> phishing / pharming websites etc.
>> designed to cheat Indian citizens and reveal their passwords and bank
>> details.
>>
>> One such link leads to URL
>> http://www.sudokuhints.com/chicken-little-slots/
>> a pharming site disguised as online gambling casino
>>
>> That CDAC (a registered society directly under DEITY) would allow,
>> since at least 2012, the malicious use of its website page relating to
>> a highly iconic religious saint of India, ie Sai Baba of Shirdi
>> ( <at> Shirdi Sai Baba)  belonging to my religious order is outrageous and
>> criminal, and the members of my religious order are now sworn to get
>> such grossly offensive filth and its perpetrators removed and
>> prosecuted under IN domain name policy and framework, the Information
>> Technology Act, the Indian Penal Code, the Prevention of Corruption
>> Act etc.
>>
>> We are attaching various PDF files as ex-facie evidence that the
>> domain name CDAC.IN requires to be suspended immediately, if the
>> Registrant is unable to disable each and every offensive/ abusive
>> content and link on their domain / websites within 36 hours of this
>> email.
>>
>> We suggest that the sub-domain "gistwiki.cdac.in" which is strangely
>> directly under the control of Wikimedia Foundation Inc USA, be
>> disabled immediately, but its entire contents be faithfully preserved
>> as evidence for at least 90 days as required under IT Act and Rules.
>> It is pertinent to mention that my order since April 2014 has been
>> regularly complaining / reporting about the corrupting influence and
>> misuse / abuse of IN domain names by Wikimedia Foundation Inc of USA
>> to the competent authorities.
>>
>> We hope that you shall cooperate with us and adhere to the law of the
>> land.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Er. Sarbajit Roy
>> National Convenor,
>> India Against Corruption, jan andolan
>> B-59 Defence Colony
>> New Delhi 110024
>> Tel : +91-8010205897
>>
>> On 8/16/14, .IN Support <noreply@...> wrote:
>>> Greetings,
>>>
>>> Please be advised ticket number 00081602 has been assigned for this
>>> issue.
>>> We will respond to you as soon as possible.
>>>
>>> Please include the string:  ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0h7MH6:ref in the body
>>> of
>>> all future correspondence with regards to this ticket.  To do so, you
>>> may
>>> simply reply to this message.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> .IN Registry Relations
>>> URL: http://www.registry.in
>>> E-mail: services@...
>>> Phone: +91-11-4644-8888
>>> Fax: +91-11-4644-8844
>>>
>>> This communication, together with any information attached hereto or
>>> linked
>>> herein, contains confidential information of NIXI and is provided for
>>> the
>>> sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any unauthorized disclosure or
>>> use
>>> of
>>> this information is strictly prohibited.
>>
>
Attachment (Krishna - GISTEnWiki.pdf): application/pdf, 270 KiB
Attachment (Christ - GISTEnWiki.pdf): application/pdf, 117 KiB
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MAULIK BHARAT | 17 Aug 07:16 2014
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[IAC#RG] Important meeting of Maulik Bharat national council and its associate and friend organization on 24th August 2014 from 2 PM

Respected Friends,

Vandematram

Hope all of you will be fine.

Our political activism convert into a drastic change in national politics. Process of governance is start now in central government. Now we need to change our role. Its time to change the mindset of each and every citizen and social activism is the only key  to achieve this goal.


On this front Maulik Bharat team attend various meeting and workshops with their associate organization in last one month on various issue specially drug and alcohol abuse, obscenity & porn culture and crime against women. Its propose by all participant to launch a public awareness campaign in Delhi – NCR in starting and after its success in all over India from October 2, Gandhi jayanti against drug and alcohol abuse, obscenity & porn culture and crime against women.


  To discuss and finalise action plan in this direction an important meeting of Maulik Bharat national council and its associate and friend organization ( with special support of National Youth Party) will organize  on 24th August 2014 from 2 PM at Siddh Hanuman Mandir Hall, Rajender Nagar, Near Fire Station, Shanker Road, New Delhi.

Presence of you, your like minded friends and associates with their views and suggestion is requested.


With regards

Anuj Agarwal

National Gen. Secretary

Maulik Bharat Trust

09811424443

www.maulikbharat.org

Rajkumar  Singh

President

National Youth Party


Rajneesh Jha

Program Coordinator 

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Sarbajit Roy | 17 Aug 07:13 2014
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Re: [IAC#RG] Confirmation: 00081602->Report of abusive counterfeiting of domain CDAC.IN for phishing etc

To:
1) IN Registry
2) Abuse@...
3) Nodal officer - CDAC.IN

cc: Dr. Gulshan Rai (Director General E-Security/GoI) for information.

Dear Sirs,

Further to my recent email on this issue, my colleagues just inform me
that the CDAC.IN website page for "ALLAH" (ie. the sole God of Islam)
has been similarly defaced / hacked since Sept 2012 seemingly by a
registered user.of CDAC with user name "Ostensibly1".

URL is http://gistwiki.cdac.in/GISTEnWiki/index.php?title=Allah

I am attaching the PDF screenshots from the CDAC.IN website, and also
from Google.com, as ex-facie evidence.

As this is now an extremely serious matter affecting the religious
sensibilities of almost every Indian citizen, I am hereby calling upon
all of you (jointly or severally) to immediately suspend the .IN
domain name "CDAC.IN" and block its abusive contents in the national
interest, and refer this matter to the appropriate committees under IT
Act or IN domain.policy framework or new National Cybercrime Policy
etc for inquiry / investigation.

I am also marking a copy of this email to Dr. Gulshan Rai and his team
at the Ministry of IT for their knowledge.

Er. Sarbajit Roy
National Convenor,
India Against Corruption, jan andolan
B-59 Defence Colony
New Delhi 110024
Tel : +91-8010205897

 ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0h7MH6:

On 8/17/14, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@...> wrote:
> To:
> 1) IN Registry
> 2) Abuse@...
> 3) Nodal officer - CDAC.IN
>
> Dear Sirs,
>
> We thank you for registering this case promptly in IN Registry.
>
> We wish to further advise you that in our opinion the domain name
> "CDAC.IN" which is a high profile domain name directly under the
> Ministry of Information Technology, and which website has an extremely
> high page rank of "8" on Google search engine, is having its web pages
> being secretly sold by corrupt officers of CDAC Pune for SEO (Search
> Engine Optimisation) to anti-national foreign interests.
>
> In the process, almost each and every abusive practice prohibited by
> the .IN anti-abuse policy is taking place from this domain name
> CDAC.IN, which is a reserved name for the Ministry of Defence, but
> which C-DAC is cyber-squatting on since 2005.
>
> It is pertinent to mention that the Director General of C-DAC, one Mr.
> Rajat Moona formerly of the Department of Computer Science and
> Engineering (CSE), IIT Kanpur, is the prime person responsible for the
> corrupt private sale of CDAC.IN web pages to international BOTNET
> cartels and cyber spammers, without care or regard if these persons
> promote grossly offensive content which hurts the sensibilities of
> Indian citizens over CDAC.IN's cyber resources or violate Indian laws.
>
> By way of example of the corruption of Mr. Rajat Moona, who appears to
> be in the pay and pocket of US spammers and pornographers such as
> Wikimedia foundation Inc. I am citing the case of the following URL
> under CDAC.IN domain name
>
> http://gistwiki.cdac.in/GISTEnWiki/index.php?title=Sai_Baba_of_Shirdi
>
> The PDF screen shot is attached herewith and contains malicious links
> to tens of misleading.pornographic, online gambling and fake loan or
> phishing / pharming websites etc.
> designed to cheat Indian citizens and reveal their passwords and bank
> details.
>
> One such link leads to URL
> http://www.sudokuhints.com/chicken-little-slots/
> a pharming site disguised as online gambling casino
>
> That CDAC (a registered society directly under DEITY) would allow,
> since at least 2012, the malicious use of its website page relating to
> a highly iconic religious saint of India, ie Sai Baba of Shirdi
> ( <at> Shirdi Sai Baba)  belonging to my religious order is outrageous and
> criminal, and the members of my religious order are now sworn to get
> such grossly offensive filth and its perpetrators removed and
> prosecuted under IN domain name policy and framework, the Information
> Technology Act, the Indian Penal Code, the Prevention of Corruption
> Act etc.
>
> We are attaching various PDF files as ex-facie evidence that the
> domain name CDAC.IN requires to be suspended immediately, if the
> Registrant is unable to disable each and every offensive/ abusive
> content and link on their domain / websites within 36 hours of this
> email.
>
> We suggest that the sub-domain "gistwiki.cdac.in" which is strangely
> directly under the control of Wikimedia Foundation Inc USA, be
> disabled immediately, but its entire contents be faithfully preserved
> as evidence for at least 90 days as required under IT Act and Rules.
> It is pertinent to mention that my order since April 2014 has been
> regularly complaining / reporting about the corrupting influence and
> misuse / abuse of IN domain names by Wikimedia Foundation Inc of USA
> to the competent authorities.
>
> We hope that you shall cooperate with us and adhere to the law of the land.
>
> Thanks
>
> Er. Sarbajit Roy
> National Convenor,
> India Against Corruption, jan andolan
> B-59 Defence Colony
> New Delhi 110024
> Tel : +91-8010205897
>
> On 8/16/14, .IN Support <noreply@...> wrote:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> Please be advised ticket number 00081602 has been assigned for this
>> issue.
>> We will respond to you as soon as possible.
>>
>> Please include the string:  ref:_00DD0CWb4._500D0h7MH6:ref in the body of
>> all future correspondence with regards to this ticket.  To do so, you may
>> simply reply to this message.
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>> .IN Registry Relations
>> URL: http://www.registry.in
>> E-mail: services@...
>> Phone: +91-11-4644-8888
>> Fax: +91-11-4644-8844
>>
>> This communication, together with any information attached hereto or
>> linked
>> herein, contains confidential information of NIXI and is provided for the
>> sole use of the intended recipient(s). Any unauthorized disclosure or use
>> of
>> this information is strictly prohibited.
>
Attachment (Allah - GISTEnWiki.pdf): application/pdf, 194 KiB
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Ratanlal Purohit | 16 Aug 15:26 2014
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Re: [IAC#RG] Increasing cases of porn

Dear All
Neighbours of Nudist Club complained and the club was shifted but still the complaints continued as Nudists were visible on telescope.
Does the Porn come to your inbox or you surf for it.
And if you look for it to condemn it then I have nothing to say.
Ratanlal Purohit

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[HumJanenge]

Respected Members

One senior citizen has asked me following query;
He has filed an RTI for inspection and he has conducted the same now he has also got copies xeroxed but
certifying authority is not available then how many days he has to wait ? What is alternative remeady, if any?

Certifying officer (State Public Information Office) is on leave that is what his junior has informed.

Regards
Rajesh Bhatt

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Sarbajit Roy | 13 Aug 18:28 2014
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[IAC#RG] Differences between IAC and AAP

Dear IAC subscribers,

Lets define some differences between IAC and AAP

A] IAC has always respected its elders and seniors like Shanti Bhushanji and freely communicated all their wisdom and maturity to our cadres.

B] Within the limitations of our communication resources IAC endeavors to project all points of view.

C] There is no high command in IAC.

D] IAC is secular and without lust for power or self-publicity.

E] IAC does not compromise on its core principles.

F] IAC remembers its history and ideology very well, and these guide our every step.

G] IAC does not sleep in bed with communal or corrupt forces like AAP does.

Over and out
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Vinod Bansal | 9 Aug 07:49 2014
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Re: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

I believe a forum like "indiaresists" should be the one where we can share our knowledge and ignorance alike, freely. Remarks made in ignorance should be tolerated, but the forum should not tolerate one who is adamant to be ignorant

vinod bansal 


On Sat, Aug 9, 2014 at 10:00 AM, Shantharam Shenai <garbageguru-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Friends,

Harassment of the INDIAN COW took place only due to the commercialisation of milk and meat.

The value & merit of the INDIAN cow does not get properly evaluated in the buisness of auction.

The intangible benefits of the INDIAN COW far exceed any G.D.P. determined model.

I am ashamed to declare that a relative of my elder sister ( brother in law ) owns AL KABEER.

He is an ex NAVY officer. !

When the true economic value of the INDIAN Cow is understood, NO one will slaughter cows, or export the meat.

MOO MOO,

Shantharam Shenai





 


On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 4:06 PM, Gaur J K <gaurjk-PkbjNfxxIARBDgjK7y7TUQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:
8/8/14
Dear Sir,
I did not find any rejoinder from S. Roy on this link.
Mr. Jasim Mohammed, to start with, had suggested ban on cow slaughter in the interest of farmers and health of the children.
In the process he quoted figure of milk production and export of meat to earn foreign exchange.
But the discussion shfted to individual choice, religion and what happned during times of Vedas. Why go so far and see what has been provided in the Constitution which should govern the conduct of the Govt., the laws to be enacted and enforced.
Mr. Jasim Mohd. figure of mild production and consumption of about 140 m. tons appears correct, though I feel the consumption should be in reality more otherwise people will not resort to such large scale adulteration as reported from time to time. India is not exporting nor can it export milk in the face of stiff competition from Australia Newzealand and european countries.
India is exporting meat mainly as frozen to the gulf an  d middle eastern countries but the figures quoted by him need to be rechecked.As per economic survey ofthe Govt.2008-9 the export of meat in 2007 was onlyUSD.931 Million which was less than 1% of total world trade. Surely it could not jump so high? Suggest recheck figure from the Annual Economic Survey presented by the Govt. only last month.APEDA figures if correctly reported appear suspect.
Now I wish to quote Article 48 of the Constitution pertaining to Directive Principles of State, which are akin to fundamental rights except that they cannot be enforced in law Courts-
"The State shall endeavour... and Shall take steps fir preserving and improving the breeds and prohibiting the slaughter of cows and calves and other m ilch and draught cattle".
While the centre has failed to bring any legislation, some states have banned the slaughter of cows.
I therefore fully support what Mr. Jasim Mohd had proposed. There is need to increase the production of mild,as we are the only country consuming fresh milk throughout the day.India has the highest cattle population in the worl but poor in health.
If some people want justification on economic,religous or scientific basis,there is ample justification.
Regds
JKGaur

Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2014 21:08:00 +0530
From: ltcolttkishore-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org
To: indiaresists-3hfIC0tI0F+k/GrYEfjPQg@public.gmane.org
Subject: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy


Dear all in general and Sarvasri DiwanSingh and Bansal in particular.
Greetings.
What Er Sarbajit Roy has stated in his rejoinder ought to be understood and one should not argue for the sake of argument.
When ' Karma Kand' wrt to yajnas and kratuvus are referred it would be better to be more knowledgeable and learn from Vedic authorities one can approach.( Iam not an Authority).
 Pashu Medha viz offering of Sheep/ goat/ horse/ cow and culminating in NarMedha is not a common ritual but a unique / rare affair. Further it was mentioned that NarMedha has an alternative of offering a recently martyred Warriors head and need not always be a living human being. 
Coming to Emperor Ashoka' s change of heart and adaption of concept of equality of all living creatures , it is a phase in evolution of human thought. Incidentally it is said Lord Buddha fell ill and died owing to consumption of putrid pork ( hog meat)dropped in his Begging Bowl( May be carelessly) and The Enlightened One had decided Not to reject the same to uphold the owes of Monkhood and Sanghm..
Coming to the present times what was good or bad  norms in the ancient times would evolve in to an acceptable form for this society.
As declared by evolved sages of yore, " Let good and fresh thoughts enter our mind from all directions". 
VeteranTTK

On Tuesday, August 5, 2014, Diwan Singh <diwans2007-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Dear Mr Kishore,
I do not think the debate is much about Hinduism or it would be misplaced. In India, we have had a evolving culture. What happened in ancient times is not Bible's testament for us. We can adore, worship as well as abuse our devi devtas, with no qualms, no sacrilege. 
Its a flexible atmosphere in India and we can freely talk about whats right and wrong and not borrowing everything from past, or whats written in a religious text.
At many places in India meat eating is a norm , so people from those regions are bound to react.
I believe compassion, non-violence is a characteristics of brave people. To me meat eating is not an act of compassion. when confronted with a violent opponent, nothing wrong in getting violent. I have always done  so and would always be. But killing someone who is defenceless, speechless, weak, innocent, does not appeal to me. So, I do not eat meat. Everybody is free to have their opinion.  


On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 11:40 PM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Indian Hindus who are meat eaters , usually consume  chicken/ duck/fowl meat ,mutton, fish and a few also consume buffaloe meat
( as a matter of taste or economics). All Hindus abhor Cows' meat. ( bulls, Oxen are NOT Cows). So raising hackles on the meat eating  preferences of Indian Hindus is a non argument. There cannot be a vegetarian vs non vegeterian  debate with underlying 
Tones of sanctimonious attitude. A Hindu in pursuit of truth adapts a diet to match his ,' tatvas' ie characteristics viz., Satvik/ Rajo/ tamas way of life. No superiority is noted based on diet . Ancient Rishi/ Munis treated diet as a sustenance of the physical body which is used in pursuit of ,' TRUTH'. We have anecdote of Agastya eating and digesting , Vatapi morphed as sheep and used as mutton to feed the sage. Even amongst the Caste Brahmins, the , ' Sakteyas' like Bengali/ Kashmiri/ Moiwal Brahmins have a diet of Fish and Mutton, but chicken/ eggs/ pork is treated impure. Cow is deified as it is an important link in the food chain for Satvilk 
People and the main source for bulls and oxen very critical for agriculture.
Veteran TTK




On Monday, August 4, 2014, apvergheses <indiaresists-3hfIC0tI0F8rdQlBCzw/OQ@public.gmane.orgt> wrote:
Arguments on moral ground with myopic views to create differences in society on the strength of circumstances need to be condemned. What right any one has to disturb the social fabric of the country by pushing what an individual wants. This world will become a mad place if every body is allowed to fight for what he thinks is right. These people talk about killing with out understanding that life is there in every thing they eat and drink. Does he not know that human being had to eliminate animals when they become a threat or nuisance leave aside need to fill the stomach. Large majority of people lived for ages and still living in this world by eating nonveg. Some health problem mental or physical can create hatred for some food we eat.  Better not to impose such feelings on others to maintain harmony. 


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy smartphone.


-------- Original message --------
From: Diwan Singh
Date:04/08/2014 17:20 (GMT+05:30)
To: indiaresists-3hfIC0tI0F+k/GrYEfjPQg@public.gmane.org
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Stop Meat Export, Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy

Poonamji,

Hindu is not a religion unlike Muslim or christianity. Its a culture, evolved over times.
Whether you consider me a Hindu or not, I do not care, but I am an Indian and have inherited some ethos from my parents and society that compassion is what defines humanity.
I am a pure vegetarian and would like ban on chicken and mutton too. Rather, in some manner I am trying at a level.
Please do not mislead by calling it a Hindu agenda. Sorry! Hindus, almost all over the country eat meat. At some places they eat beef as well.
I believe its a matter of your moral duty to other living beings. 

And, we should not brush off an issue by raising question on other issues. If you do not feel a moral duty to stop such slaughter, its your choice.





On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 7:39 PM, Poonam Agarwal <poonam.agarwal88-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
The discussion is neither scientific , economic or moral.it is simply HINDUTVA driven COW centric discussion...do any one has courage to ban chicken and goats????'.......come on scientific and moral people....let us talk about banning chicken and goat..
On Aug 3, 2014 4:04 PM, "Diwan Singh" <diwans2007 <at> gmail.com> wrote:

Gaushalas are the place where abandoned cattle should go.  Thats what the system rightfully devised by our ancestors. 
Also, Mr Batti, our sacrificial practices have evolved and we do not follow that now. Certainly, there are greater moral reasons not to kill the animals. Morality has a place in society, its above science, economics, and selfishness. If we do not bother about that, then there is hardly any scope for arguement.

On 3 Aug 2014 04:16, "Aikant Bhatti" <dr3917-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

I would differ on the opinion, about meat export and cow slaughter. I guess every one must have seen cows, on roads at times being killed or maimed by the vehicular traffic. We can also find cattle eating rubbish at the garbage dumps, to simplify "no one" cares but every one wants the profit through milk or meat.
Cow has been referred to be holy animal and has religious sentiments attached to it.
If we look at times when settlers we settling along the indus river and civilization was expanding animals were being domesticated cows, goats, ox, sheeps and horses for the purpose of agriculture and as a  source of proteins.

Meat was used since vedic times for sacrifices and it included goats, sheeps, cows, bulls and horses.  Yagas with animal sacrifices were being performed and the slaughtered animal was regarded as holy food, which was distributed and cooked. The meat was integral part of the culture since the beginning of the civilisation.
However the concern is " Not" to eat beef or not to eat beef. The concern is to  why not rest the poor animal who in any case will be end being hit by a vehicle or eating rubbish.
I strongly feel that ancient religious practice's  need to be validated with scientific findings and sound reasoning.

On 1 Aug 2014 11:03, "Dharmendra Kumar Dewan" <dsmcho <at> gmail.com> wrote:
i am in agreement with the unbiased, scientific & nationalistic views expressed by the writer Mr Jasmin Mohammed....this is how we as indians should think & act ...


On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 8:35 PM, Jasim Mohammad <jasimmd-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:

" Stop Meat Export , Ban Cow Slaughter & Make India Healthy"                  

* Jasim Mohammad                                                                                                                       Since ancient times , animals particularly cow and buffaloes have special place n our civilisation. Perhaps India is the only country where certain animals including cow are being worshipped and regarded as holy. Hindu religious texts are full of their glory. Just before independence Indian cultivation was heavily depended on cow dung fertilizers. Tilting of land was under taken by buffalo pushing. In short our whole socio - cultural set up was depended upon them.

       But with changing times and the industrial revolution and market economy changes in the pattern of cultivation and our attitude towards the animals drastically changed. In the begining it was presumed that the change priorities will help the nation to be more strong economically but with he passage of time it is being analysed that un-checked export of meat and meat based products apart of abandoning cow dung fertilizer have resulted in weakening us economically and  on health grounds. Chemical fertilizers are harming not only our health but also minimising the fertility of the land we cultivate.
                   

The biggest challenge to our socio - cultural mind set and requirement have came from meat export in our zeal to earn more and more foreign exchange. No doubt the country needs and badly needs the foreign exchange but at the same time we must be careful for our own needs. The disbalances which we have created are resulting in the downfall of not our health but future of our next generation.
              

India, a country where eating meat particularly beef is a sensitive religious issue , has become the biggest meat exporter in the world beating the Brazil. Data of ministry of Food Processing shows that India exported 1.89 million tonnes of beef ( larger part in buffalo meat ) in 2012 - 2013 which was 50% increase over last five years.
          

As far as earnings from meat export are concerned , it touched to 21,000 crore in 2012 - 2013. India has major markets in USA,Europe, Gulf and South Asian countries.
             

Even the US Department of Agriculture ( USdA ) has acknowledged that the Indian government has played a vital role in enhancing meat and meat products exports. Uttar Pradesh is the biggest producer of export oriented meat while Kerala is the biggest consumer domestically. Cow slaughter is banned all over the country except Kerala, West Bengal and the North Eastern states.

In general meat and particularly beef has become an important foreign exchange earner in India among the agriculture based commodity after Basmati rice with 31% increase in quantity and 52 % rise in value terms during 2013 - 2014.According to figures of Agriculture & Processed Food Products Export Development Authority ( APEDA ) the beef export totaled 1449759 tonnes worth of Rs. 26458 crore lat year. The figure are really surprising for a country where meat particularly beef eating is supposed to be a taboo and has religious implications.
>                    

The zeal on the part of individual meat business men and the government to earn the foreign exchange has resulted in depriving domestic consumers for healthy meat and milk for the next generation on whom our whole survival depends. Apart of that the cow dung fertilizer has become a rare thing and our cultivation and agricultural activites especially vegitable cultivation are highly suffering. The farmers are using chemical fertilizers which is resulting in either over fertilising or less due to illiteracy and on being ignorant scientifically. Milk is the essential commodity for healthy development of our children. But it is in short supply and out of reach of large section of Indian citizenary and the result is that we have an under nourished childhood and are consiquently producing weak and unhealthy citizen. That is not good for the nation as a whole.
>                     

As far as milk is concerned , it is livestock enterprise in which small farmers can successfully engage in order to improve their livlihood. Regular milk supplies allow them to move from subsistence to a market based income.
>               

Milk production is estimated to have declined marginally to 134.5 million tonnes in the last year though expected to be 140.6 million tonnes in the current year. Total Indian milk consumption is set to match with its production this year while domestic consumption is pegged at 425000 tonnes.
>                           

Cow dung or manure as fertilizer is very good for cultivation. when composed it has nutrient rich elements. It is also used as fuel which is environment friendly. The government should encourage masses to use cow dung as fuel as far as they can because it will save the gas for future and is economicall viable.
>                        

In general meat eating and particularly beef eating is not part of our culture and is treated as taboo. It hurts religious feelings of largest religious group in India. In some cases this beef and meat has become tool of communal disharmony and flare up. Every nation needs peace and social harmony for its development and that is not possible till we balance our needs with the feelings of other social and religious groups.
>                       

Hence meat export should be contained at minimum level. The better will be to completely ban the meat particularly beef export. By that our children will get better quality milk and the farmers will have rich dung fertilizer at no extra cost which will economically boost the farming in the country and will enhance agriculture income.
>                          

Some people and lobbies take shelter under misguided plea that exports are essential for growth of country. That is right but if impartially calculated one will find that the loss from stopping meat export will be less than the increase in the export of milk and milk products. This is a crucial year in which our milk production will be just near to domestic demands.This is the year in which we have to take a positive decision in the interest of future of our children, communal harmony and national income growth and completely ban meat especially beef export.
>                                 

If the present central government has political will and courage , it should take the revolutionary decision and jump out of the net spread by some individuals and foreign countries in favour of meat export and ban it. the history will not only record the gains socially as well as economically of Modi government but will also realise dream of largest religious section of Indian masses.

* Jasim Mohammad is Director, Muslim Chamber of Commerce & Industry, Aligarh . He can be reached at jasimoffice-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org


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