Police use mobile phone records to identify source of leak

A simple story:

*  Someone tips off a journalist about a police enquiry

*  Police obtain phone records (presumably using RIP s22) [the Ipswich
   MP seems to confuse this with Part I of RIP] to determine who they
   have been talking to

*  Police give "words of advice" to someone

*  Reporter obtains info that this sequence of events has happened using
   a DPA subject data request

        One suspects that the person given "words of advice" might have
        had something to do with suggesting that the reporter take the
        DPA action that they did, since I doubt that reporters issue DPA
        requests with any regularity ...

Simon may wish to note (since he's still considering comments upon the
Code of Practice) that Part 7 of the Code of Practice only considers DPA
requests served upon CSPs and there is no ! advice about requests served
upon the public authority.  Clearly in this case the correct decision
(reveal the nature of the s22 request) was made -- but it does seem a
slight lacuna in the CoP not to discuss this situation.

Journalists may of course wish to note that being tipped off involves
the risk of your informers committing an offence, and that can be
investigated in this "high tech" manner ...  so make sure you've a good
cover story for conversing with everyone who give you tips !

Re: Police use mobile phone records to identify source of leak

In article <uWnYD+GB9hcFFALY@...>, Richard Clayton 
<richard@...> writes
>A simple story:
>
>*  Someone tips off a journalist about a police enquiry
>
>*  Police obtain phone records (presumably using RIP s22) [the Ipswich
>   MP seems to confuse this with Part I of RIP]

Also about the nature of a "fishing expedition". This sounds like a 
fairly specific enquiry into one journalist's phone records (perhaps 
because it was obvious who the journalist was, after he started sniffing 
around the reopened investigation). In my view, a fishing expedition 
would involve asking for all the records of all the journalists, and 
without any specific leak having been suspected, just to see if there 
had been any conversations with known police phone numbers. (Or the 
reverse, fishing all your policemen's mobile phone records to see if 
they had been contacting journalists).

>to determine who they    have been talking to
>
>*  Police give "words of advice" to someone

"a member of police staff". The way I read the story, this would have 
been to the person doing the leaking, saying "bad boy, don't leak 
again". Although it's ambiguous, and as written is also consistent with 
"someone was told to be more cautious about using s22 notices to 
investigate leaks in future".

>*  Reporter obtains info that this sequence of events has happened using

Re: Changing Credit Card PINs

On Thu, 2006-11-23 at 17:52, Roland Perry wrote:

> My question therefore is this:
> 
> When you are issued with a new C&P card, will it ever have a
> user-changed PIN embedded in it, and

Towards the end of October and about a week before going to Lanzarote
for 2 weeks, I asked Nationwide for a new debit card as the existing one
had cracked badly.  It arrived in good time.  Three days before flying
out, I attempted to draw some cash, only to discover that the PIN was
not the one I was expecting, and had set a couple of years earlier.

I asked for a PIN reminder, which arrived while I was away.  Luckily my
wife's debit card continued to work and we didn't have to use expensive
credit cards to draw cash.

The PIN on the new card was the same as the one originally issued with
its predecessor.

Paul

Re: Changing Credit Card PINs

In article <1165153902.2825.113.camel <at> athlon>, Paul Leyland 
<paul@...> writes
>> My question therefore is this:
>>
>> When you are issued with a new C&P card, will it ever have a
>> user-changed PIN embedded in it, and
>
>Towards the end of October and about a week before going to Lanzarote
>for 2 weeks, I asked Nationwide for a new debit card as the existing one
>had cracked badly.  It arrived in good time.  Three days before flying
>out, I attempted to draw some cash, only to discover that the PIN was
>not the one I was expecting, and had set a couple of years earlier.
>
>I asked for a PIN reminder, which arrived while I was away.  Luckily my
>wife's debit card continued to work and we didn't have to use expensive
>credit cards to draw cash.
>
>The PIN on the new card was the same as the one originally issued with
>its predecessor.

I've recently been in communication with a very helpful card issuer, and 
the situation seems to be as follows (apologies for any mistakes in 
interpretation):

When the order for a re-issued card is sent to the card manufacturer, it 
should include the most recently known PIN, including any changes made 
up to that date by the customer [although this does not seem to be the 
case for your experience with Nationwide].

The system has problems if the PIN is changed after that order to the 

Re: Changing Credit Card PINs

In article <HefP5wkFMYdFFA3W@...>,
   Roland Perry <lists@...> wrote:
> When the order for a re-issued card is sent to the card manufacturer, it 
> should include the most recently known PIN, including any changes made 
> up to that date by the customer [although this does not seem to be the 
> case for your experience with Nationwide].

When was that experience? My new Nationwide Debit Card arrived in June
this year and the PIN was the one I had changed to with the previous card.

RogerH

--

-- 
Roger Hird
roger.hird@...

Running RISCOS 4.39 on an Acorn StrongARM RiscPC 

Dual-use regs

I was looking at the DTI site

http://www.dti.gov.uk/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/legislation/ec
-du-reg/index.html

wherein it says:

"The EU Dual-Use Regulation is part of European law and is directly
applicable in all EU countries."

I wss under the impression that UK citizens in the UK only had to obey UK
law, and while EU regulations could be binding on the Government, EU law did
not apply directly to UK citizens - is that incorrect?

Is there an EU law that says it is an offence to break the dual-use regs,
and specifies the punishment and eg mode of trial?

Or are the DTI just being unclear/confusing/uninformed?

--

-- 
Peter Fairbrother

Re: Changing Credit Card PINs

In article <4e908b5212roger.hird@...>, Roger Hird 
<roger.hird@...> writes
>> When the order for a re-issued card is sent to the card manufacturer, it
>> should include the most recently known PIN, including any changes made
>> up to that date by the customer [although this does not seem to be the
>> case for your experience with Nationwide].
>
>When was that experience? My new Nationwide Debit Card arrived in June
>this year and the PIN was the one I had changed to with the previous card.

Paul said his Nationwide experience was "Towards the end of October".

My own experience was mid November.

Of course, as I'd only changed my PIN once, during what turned out to be 
this now-revealed blackout period of about two weeks before receiving a 
new card, I can't say for certain that the card I got would have been 
issued with a PIN that I'd changed (say) six months before (rather than 
with the original PIN issued by the card company).
--

-- 
Roland Perry

Re: Dual-use regs

In article <C19B6B7D.D7BF7%zenadsl6186@...>, Peter
Fairbrother 
<zenadsl6186@...> writes
>I was looking at the DTI site
>
>http://www.dti.gov.uk/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/legislation/ec
>-du-reg/index.html
>
>wherein it says:
>
>"The EU Dual-Use Regulation is part of European law and is directly
>applicable in all EU countries."
>
>I wss under the impression that UK citizens in the UK only had to obey UK
>law, and while EU regulations could be binding on the Government, EU law did
>not apply directly to UK citizens - is that incorrect?

As it's a Regulation is does seem it could be directly applicable:

http://www.leeds.ac.uk/law/hamlyn/european.htm

>Is there an EU law that says it is an offence to break the dual-use regs,
>and specifies the punishment and eg mode of trial?

I don't know how the enforcement would proceed against an individual 
(most of the references I've found seem to be individuals suing 
governments for ignoring Regulations).

IANAL etc etc.
--

-- 

Re: Dual-use regs

Peter Fairbrother wrote:
> I was looking at the DTI site
> 
> http://www.dti.gov.uk/europeandtrade/strategic-export-control/legislation/ec
> -du-reg/index.html
> 
> wherein it says:
> 
> "The EU Dual-Use Regulation is part of European law and is directly
> applicable in all EU countries."
> 
> I wss under the impression that UK citizens in the UK only had to obey UK
> law, and while EU regulations could be binding on the Government, EU law did
> not apply directly to UK citizens - is that incorrect?

It is incorrect.  Directives generally bind only the state (broadly
defined), but Regulations apply directly.

> Is there an EU law that says it is an offence to break the dual-use regs,
> and specifies the punishment and eg mode of trial?

To produce criminal law effects the UK will usually make its own
regulations by secondary legislation.  It has done so in relation to
export control, but I don't have the reference to hand.

Nick
--

-- 
Salkyns, Great Canfield, Takeley,
Bishop's Stortford CM22 6SX, UK

Re: Dual-use regs