Adrian Midgley | 1 Dec 2004 01:55

Re: ID Cards - The Government Position

On Saturday 27 November 2004 12:19, Roland Perry wrote:
> Those bits of card don't claim to expire, even if the Doctor and PCT
> have changed because you've moved. I'd just give you an old one!

Perfectly adequate.
Indeed, you can just _show_ it.
--

-- 
Dr Adrian Midgley          GP  Exeter              www.defoam.net
Open Source is a necessary but not of itself sufficient condition.

Adrian Midgley | 1 Dec 2004 01:56

Re: ID Cards - The Government Position

On Thursday 03 January 1980 12:05, Peter Tomlinson wrote:
> PS Is www.defoam.net a place where we can find a cure for foaming at the
> mouth because of frustration with bureaucrats?

Not the sort of foam I'm against.  But there is a note of why the domain name 
there...
--

-- 
Dr Adrian Midgley          GP  Exeter              www.defoam.net
Open Source is a necessary but not of itself sufficient condition.

Adrian Midgley | 1 Dec 2004 02:01

Re: SPAM:RE: ID Cards - The Government Position

On Friday 26 November 2004 15:29, Ian G Batten wrote:

> Hmm.  The government appears quite keen for them to, so they can claim
> unemployment is down whilst quietly presiding over a huge rise in
> incapacity benefit.

That was a previous government.
The current one has different habits and in fact is keen for us to stop 
signing people off sick.

It would also like firms to take them back before they are 100% perfectly 
recovered, IE have employees allowed or encouraged to behave like the 
self-employed.

I don't think there is a problem covering up unemployment at present, the move 
is more to expose people who have comfortable jobs doing not much and could 
be put to work on something more useful and productive.  
In other news, several NHS bodies are being dissolved with a reduction in NHS 
administrator headcount...
--

-- 
Dr Adrian Midgley          GP  Exeter              www.defoam.net
Open Source is a necessary but not of itself sufficient condition.

Roland Perry | 1 Dec 2004 08:29

Re: ID Cards - The Government Position

In article <200411291028.iATASllF005940@...>, Brian
Beesley 
<BJ.Beesley@...> writes
>> >The case in point is parcel delivery, not online purchase - why should
>> >*I* or my friend Mr X have to provide a blunkettcard in order to obtain
>> >a parcel sent to him, for which service I have already paid?
>>
>> No reason, if you want to take the risk that it's handed to the wrong
>> person.
>
>Handing to the wrong person isn't the risk. The risk is not being able to
>recover the money/goods/service you have lost as a consequence of the
>incompetence of the delivery service.

Or your incompetence in selecting a delivery service that has (a) no 
proper compensation and (b) no proper system for checking who it's being 
delivered to [I don't think the Post Office pretends it does, for 
example, so that's your fault for using them anyway].
--

-- 
Roland Perry

Roland Perry | 1 Dec 2004 08:44

Re: ID Cards - The Government Position

In article
<14236.193.130.19.189.1101733513.squirrel@...>, 
Peter Mitchell <andromeda@...> writes
>>> >Lets face facts here - if the banks were really that bothered about
>>> CC and debit card fraud, they would be taking measures to combat it
>>>
>>> C&P and the Check digits on the signature strip are illusions, then?
>>
>> Unfortunately C&P is no illusion. As predicted, the terminals are crap -
>> such  shields as are supplied are useless, everyone seems to have their
>> own pattern  so you can't tell if a terminal is genuine, every terminal
>> I've seen so far  has been covered by a CCTV.
>
>The worst I've seen so far are in Halfords, they are completely unshielded
>in any way. Asda are nearly as bad, and they don't like you insisting on a
>signature either.

So, we are all agreed :-)

The banks *are* taking measures to combat fraud, but several people 
think that the measures should be better. Recent APACS advice on use of 
the terminals (which would get over several of the objections, including 
the strain gauges) is to pick them up if on a curly cord, and to use 
your body to shield the view from others nearby.
--

-- 
Roland Perry

Roland Perry | 1 Dec 2004 08:53

Re: ID Cards - The Government Position

In article <HCEGKCLCHALDGMOIAHFDOEJMEDAA.oml@...>, Owen
Lewis 
<oml@...> writes

>> It seems very bad luck to have had the cheque go astray in the first
>> place, never mind for it to have gone astray into the hands of someone
>> who then decided he would arrange for the fraud.
>
>It probably did not go astray but was stolen. You appreciate the difference.

The newspaper report hints that it was stolen in the post. But it must 
have been by someone with access to the complex laundering mechanism 
described.

>> How likely is that?
>
>We have mail genuinely go astray through mis-delivery her on about a weekly
>basis. Despite several complaints to the PO accuracy of delivery does not
>improve. Fortunately, the lessees  of the various offices in this building
>are honest and usually trouble to correct mis-delivery between themselves.
>God know what happens to mail delivered to a vacant office suite. We lose
>about one incoming cheque a year.

When I was in business the number of cheques from creditors reported by 
them as lost in the post was enormous! Oddly, the replacement would 
always arrive, after a suitably long delay "just to make sure the first 
one didn't turn up".

>               -       That sending money other than by recorded delivery mail entails risk.

(Continue reading)

Roland Perry | 1 Dec 2004 09:03

Re: ID Cards - The Government Position

In article <6.1.2.0.0.20041130134643.01a64938@...>,
Richard 
Snow <C.R.Snow@...> writes
>I am sorry, but I neither know, nor probably care, about the unique ID 
>of the creditor, and as a private individual, I certainly do not have 
>the facilities to put such a computer-readable string onto my personal 
>cheques.

You could add the postcode, which could be checked manually against an 
ID card if (for example) this cheque was used to open a new account.
--

-- 
Roland Perry

Peter Tomlinson | 1 Dec 2004 09:15
Picon

Re: ID Cards - The Government Position

Adrian Midgley wrote:

> On Thursday 03 January 1980 12:05, Peter Tomlinson wrote:
> 
>> PS Is www.defoam.net a place where we can find a cure for foaming
>> at the mouth because of frustration with bureaucrats?
> 
> 
> Not the sort of foam I'm against.  But there is a note of why the
> domain name there...

I note from the site Adrian's use of more text and much less graphics 
than on many sites, and his lucid explanation.

Because we are much better at expressing specifics in text and certain 
necessary graphical methods (e.g. state diagrams), then I follow his 
reasoning for many technical topics and technical readers. But in 
working on the user interface of equipment and software over many years, 
I have come to appreciate that there is a continuum from those who can 
only handle words to those who can only handle graphics. Recently I 
edited a long technical report that was built from material produced by 
a number of European contributors. It covered topics in e-service scheme 
architectures, primarily for the use of secure tokens in ID and 
authentication areas. I found the material very difficult, with lots of 
diagrams but also difficult text. Later I spoke to an American lady who 
works as a technical editor at CEN in Brussels, and she commented that 
many Europeans 'write in pictures'.

Peter

(Continue reading)

Roland Perry | 1 Dec 2004 09:16

Re: ID Cards - The Government Position

In article <200411291000.iATA0GlF000439@...>, Brian
Beesley 
<BJ.Beesley@...> writes
>> To get back to the original point - I was refused the ability to do a
>> transaction that would have worked at any point in the last 30 years up
>> until last week. That was done by the bank making an unannounced and
>> very subtle (but wide-ranging) change to the rules. The same could
>> happen within an all encompassing ID scheme, leaving you high and dry
>> where once you were happy. Just by someone flicking a switch and
>> removing one of your "entitlements".
>
>Isn't there an ombudsman for the banking / financial services sector?

Yes, but I'm pretty sure there'll turn out to be no breach of contract, 
just a huge embuggeration factor. When, in years to come, you find 
yourself turned away from whatever public service you thought you were 
entitled to, and had used on that basis for years, because your ID card 
says "non"; you'll also find that the entitlement had been withdrawn in 
some unpublicised official move you won't get anywhere complaining 
about.
--

-- 
Roland Perry

Alex Butcher, ISC/ISYS | 1 Dec 2004 10:12
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Picon
Favicon

RE: ID card bill now online


--On 30 November 2004 15:49 +0000 Owen Lewis <oml@...> wrote:

> On the other hand if your argument is simply that you wish to reserve to
> yourself a right to misrepresent or to deny your true identity as you
> alone shall decide....

Damn straight I do, if a rather less benign government rises to power in 
the UK and I'm a member of one of its chosen scapegoat groups or involved 
in protecting people who are. I'm not so naïve as to believe it could never 
happen here (and indeed, historically, it has, depending on your professed 
religion).

> well I think you are seriously out of step with the times and with what
> will come to pass here.

It wouldn't be the first time. :-/

> Owen

Best Regards,
Alex.
--

-- 
Alex Butcher: Security & Integrity, Personal Computer Systems Group
Information Systems and Computing             GPG Key ID: F9B27DC9
GPG Fingerprint: D62A DD83 A0B8 D174 49C4 2849 832D 6C72 F9B2 7DC9


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