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Sathya Narayanan | 2 Nov 2004 02:21

Mutlti-Flow Real time transport protocol (MRTP)

Dear TSV-WG Members,

A few of us have been working on defining a Multi-flow real-time 
transport protocol (MRTP) for carrying real-time
transport across multiple flows/paths. We submitted a draft 
(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-narayanan-mrtp-00.txt)
containing our initial thoughts on the design. We also made a short 
presentation in the AVT working group at IETF60.

We prepared a brief motivation draft 
(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-narayanan-mrtp-motivation-00.txt)
to present the background and motivation for the work.

More information on related research can be found at 
http://theater.poly.edu/mrtp/

Please take a look at the drafts and let us know your comments/thoughts. 
We would like to assess interest level in developing
a multi-path real time (possibily both rt and nrt) protocol.

thanks & regards,
Sathya
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Brian E Carpenter | 7 Nov 2004 22:37
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draft-baker-diffserv-basic-classes-04

Hi,

I find more to comment in this draft each time I look at it.
Maybe it's getting longer each time...

>    The key words "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL
>    NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in
>    this document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119].

It's very strange to find this in the Abstract, not the Introduction.

> 1.2  Service Class Definition
> 
> 
>    A "service class" represents a set of traffic that requires specific
>    delay, loss and jitter characteristics from the network for which a
>    consistent and defined per-hop behavior (PHB) [RFC2475] applies.

The Proposed Standard is RFC2474 and that should surely be the
primary normative reference; 2475 is Informational.

Also, this section still lacks any reference to the PDB document
and any explanation of the relationship between Service Class and PDB.

I suspect it is something like this:

   A Service Class as defined here is essentially a statement of
   the required characteristics of a traffic aggregate; the actual
   specification of the expected treatment of a traffic aggregate
   within a domain is defined as a Per Domain Behavior [RFC3086].
(Continue reading)

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Brian E Carpenter | 7 Nov 2004 22:51
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Re: I-D ACTION:draft-chan-tsvwg-diffserv-class-aggr-00.txt

Hi,

I'm not sure I understand the point of this draft. I recognize that
it's incomplete, but it's a trivial statement that if we send two
diffserv traffic aggregates on a wire, we have built what the draft
calls a treatment aggregate. Then it's a *requirement* of the diffserv
architecture that the sending router has met the constraints of both
PHBs corresponding to the two traffic aggregates. It's just a basic
part of the diffserv architecture that different traffic aggregates
on the same link share resources. How this is a achieved is an
implementation issue and a possible product differentiator. So I
don't see what there is to write an RFC about.

IMHO, it is *not* OK to abbreviate "treatment aggregate"
as "aggregate."  RFC 2475 uses "aggregate" alone once or twice to
refer to a traffic aggregate or behavior aggregate. We were very
careful in RFC 3086 to avoid this ambiguity, and so we spelled
out "traffic aggregate" or "behavior aggregate" every time.

Regards
      Brian
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Philip Jacobs | 8 Nov 2004 02:06
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Question regarding draft-baker-diffserv-basic-classes-04.txt

I have a question regarding draft-baker-diffserv-basic-classes-04.txt

It seems that there are business and unavailability cases when applications would be carried in
"non-optimal" Service Classes.

E.g.1. A business decision may be made such that urgent email could be sent in the "Low-latency" rather than
the "High Throughput Data" Service Class used for regular email (with appropriately set higher expectations).

E.g.2. During signaling, if there is no available capacity in the "Telephony" services class, a VoIP call
may be carried in "Low-latency" Service Class (with appropriately set lower expectations).

My question is "should this draft contain advise regarding into which Service Classes various types of
application may be non-optimally placed?"

It might be useful to include advice regarding:
- types of application traffic which may damage Services Classes's ability to deliver as expected. Eg An
email may damage the "Telephony" service class.
- types of application traffic which may be carried in "non-optimal" Service Classes without negative impact.

This would answer the question, which service classes a type of application may be "promoted/demoted"
into, and which ones it may not.

Phil
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Peterson, Jon | 8 Nov 2004 16:40
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agenda


The following is the agenda we're pursuing for Wednesday. As always, Allison
and I apologize that this is so tardy.

Jon Peterson
NeuStar, Inc.

-----

Transport Area WG (tsvwg)

Wednesday, November 10 at 1530-1730
===============================

CHAIRS:	Allison Mankin <mankin <at> psg.com> 
	      Jon Peterson <jon.peterson <at> neustar.biz>

1530 Agenda bashing/Notetaker/Intro (chairs)

1540 RSVP Bandwidth reduction (Polk)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-tsvwg-rsvp-bw-reduction-00.tx
t

1555 Wide-Area Network (Baker)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-tsvwg-vpn-signaled-preemptio
n-01.txt

1605 Diffserv Basic Classes (Chan)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-diffserv-basic-classes-04.tx
t
(Continue reading)

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Brian E Carpenter | 8 Nov 2004 13:38
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draft-pierce-tsvwg-assured-service-req-01.txt and -arch-01.txt

draft-pierce-tsvwg-assured-service-req-01.txt:

Firstly, as I think I've said before, using the word "assured"
is very confusing, since "assured forwarding" is a term of art
in diffserv with a specific and different meaning.

> 0.   History 
>     
>    Note: This section will be deleted before progressing as an RFC. 
>     
>    This document has evolved through 3 different working groups: 
>    SIPPING, IEPREP, and TSVWG. This draft was originally submitted 
>    under SIPPING with 2 revisions and then in the IEPREP WG in order to 
>    ensure that the Assured Service requirements are considered along 
>    with those of the related IEPS discussions. It is not being 
>    submitted in TSVWG.

That "not" is a very confusing nit :-)

> 3.   High Level Requirements
...
>    ...For example, the 
>    lower precedence calls may temporarily experience reduced quality as 
>    their packets are discarded. 

As Fred Baker's critique of the MLEF proposal has pointed out,
this is probably not acceptable, for reasons he explained in detail.

 > 4.3.1.  Call Treatment
...
(Continue reading)

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Kwok Ho Chan | 8 Nov 2004 20:51

Re: agenda

Jon:
Are the draft reference for the agenda items below correct?  They are different versions
of the same draft.

1635 RSVP Aggregation (Davie)
http://ietfreport.isoc.org/ids/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-00.txt

1720 RSVP for MPLS-TE (Davie)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-01.txt

Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 10:40 AM 11/8/2004, Peterson, Jon wrote:

The following is the agenda we're pursuing for Wednesday. As always, Allison
and I apologize that this is so tardy.

Jon Peterson
NeuStar, Inc.

-----

Transport Area WG (tsvwg)

Wednesday, November 10 at 1530-1730
===============================

CHAIRS: Allison Mankin <mankin <at> psg.com>
              Jon Peterson <jon.peterson <at> neustar.biz>

1530 Agenda bashing/Notetaker/Intro (chairs)

1540 RSVP Bandwidth reduction (Polk)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-tsvwg-rsvp-bw-reduction-00.tx
t

1555 Wide-Area Network (Baker)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-tsvwg-vpn-signaled-preemptio
n-01.txt

1605 Diffserv Basic Classes (Chan)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-diffserv-basic-classes-04.tx
t

1620 Quickstart (Jain/Floyd/Allman)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-amit-quick-start-03.txt

1635 RSVP Aggregation (Davie)
http://ietfreport.isoc.org/ids/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-00.txt

1650 XCP (Falk)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-falk-xcp-spec-00.txt

1705 SCTP NAT Traversal (Xie/Stewart/Holdrege)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xie-tsvwg-sctp-nat-00.txt

1720 RSVP for MPLS-TE (Davie)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-01.txt

_______________________________________________
tsvwg mailing list
tsvwg <at> ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg 
_______________________________________________
tsvwg mailing list
tsvwg <at> ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg
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Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch | 8 Nov 2004 21:58
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RE: agenda

Hi Kwok,Jon,
 
The agenda should have a single item and read something like:
 
    RSVP Aggregation over MPLS-TE:
 
Thanks
 
Francois
 
 
From: tsvwg-bounces <at> ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces <at> ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kwok Ho Chan
Sent: lundi 8 novembre 2004 20:51
To: Peterson, Jon
Cc: 'tsvwg <at> ietf.org'; 'mankin <at> psg.com'
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] agenda

Jon:
Are the draft reference for the agenda items below correct?  They are different versions
of the same draft.

1635 RSVP Aggregation (Davie)
http://ietfreport.isoc.org/ids/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-00.txt

1720 RSVP for MPLS-TE (Davie)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-01.txt

Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 10:40 AM 11/8/2004, Peterson, Jon wrote:

The following is the agenda we're pursuing for Wednesday. As always, Allison
and I apologize that this is so tardy.

Jon Peterson
NeuStar, Inc.

-----

Transport Area WG (tsvwg)

Wednesday, November 10 at 1530-1730
===============================

CHAIRS: Allison Mankin <mankin <at> psg.com>
              Jon Peterson <jon.peterson <at> neustar.biz>

1530 Agenda bashing/Notetaker/Intro (chairs)

1540 RSVP Bandwidth reduction (Polk)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-tsvwg-rsvp-bw-reduction-00.tx
t

1555 Wide-Area Network (Baker)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-tsvwg-vpn-signaled-preemptio
n-01.txt

1605 Diffserv Basic Classes (Chan)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-diffserv-basic-classes-04.tx
t

1620 Quickstart (Jain/Floyd/Allman)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-amit-quick-start-03.txt

1635 RSVP Aggregation (Davie)
http://ietfreport.isoc.org/ids/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-00.txt

1650 XCP (Falk)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-falk-xcp-spec-00.txt

1705 SCTP NAT Traversal (Xie/Stewart/Holdrege)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xie-tsvwg-sctp-nat-00.txt

1720 RSVP for MPLS-TE (Davie)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-01.txt

_______________________________________________
tsvwg mailing list
tsvwg <at> ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg 
_______________________________________________
tsvwg mailing list
tsvwg <at> ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg
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Peterson, Jon | 8 Nov 2004 23:05
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RE: agenda

Right, thanks for pointing this out. I was using last time's agenda as a template, and I seem to have made a cut-and-paste error. That was supposed to be a slot for Wesley Eddy. I'll send an updated agenda.
 
Jon Peterson
NeuStar, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch) [mailto:flefauch <at> cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, November 08, 2004 3:59 PM
To: Kwok Ho Chan; Peterson, Jon
Cc: tsvwg <at> ietf.org; mankin <at> psg.com; Francois Le Faucheur (flefauch)
Subject: RE: [Tsvwg] agenda

Hi Kwok,Jon,
 
The agenda should have a single item and read something like:
 
    RSVP Aggregation over MPLS-TE:
 
Thanks
 
Francois
 
 
From: tsvwg-bounces <at> ietf.org [mailto:tsvwg-bounces <at> ietf.org] On Behalf Of Kwok Ho Chan
Sent: lundi 8 novembre 2004 20:51
To: Peterson, Jon
Cc: 'tsvwg <at> ietf.org'; 'mankin <at> psg.com'
Subject: Re: [Tsvwg] agenda

Jon:
Are the draft reference for the agenda items below correct?  They are different versions
of the same draft.

1635 RSVP Aggregation (Davie)
http://ietfreport.isoc.org/ids/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-00.txt

1720 RSVP for MPLS-TE (Davie)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-01.txt

Thanks!
-- Kwok --

At 10:40 AM 11/8/2004, Peterson, Jon wrote:

The following is the agenda we're pursuing for Wednesday. As always, Allison
and I apologize that this is so tardy.

Jon Peterson
NeuStar, Inc.

-----

Transport Area WG (tsvwg)

Wednesday, November 10 at 1530-1730
===============================

CHAIRS: Allison Mankin <mankin <at> psg.com>
              Jon Peterson <jon.peterson <at> neustar.biz>

1530 Agenda bashing/Notetaker/Intro (chairs)

1540 RSVP Bandwidth reduction (Polk)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-tsvwg-rsvp-bw-reduction-00.tx
t

1555 Wide-Area Network (Baker)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-tsvwg-vpn-signaled-preemptio
n-01.txt

1605 Diffserv Basic Classes (Chan)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-diffserv-basic-classes-04.tx
t

1620 Quickstart (Jain/Floyd/Allman)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-amit-quick-start-03.txt

1635 RSVP Aggregation (Davie)
http://ietfreport.isoc.org/ids/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-00.txt

1650 XCP (Falk)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-falk-xcp-spec-00.txt

1705 SCTP NAT Traversal (Xie/Stewart/Holdrege)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xie-tsvwg-sctp-nat-00.txt

1720 RSVP for MPLS-TE (Davie)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-01.txt

_______________________________________________
tsvwg mailing list
tsvwg <at> ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg 
_______________________________________________
tsvwg mailing list
tsvwg <at> ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tsvwg
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Peterson, Jon | 8 Nov 2004 23:06
Favicon

updated agenda


Transport Area WG (tsvwg)

Wednesday, November 10 at 1530-1730
===============================

CHAIRS:	Allison Mankin <mankin <at> psg.com> 
	      Jon Peterson <jon.peterson <at> neustar.biz>

1530 Agenda bashing/Notetaker/Intro (chairs)

1540 RSVP Bandwidth reduction (Polk)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-polk-tsvwg-rsvp-bw-reduction-00.tx
t

1555 Wide-Area Network (Baker)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-tsvwg-vpn-signaled-preemptio
n-01.txt

1605 Diffserv Basic Classes (Chan)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-baker-diffserv-basic-classes-04.tx
t

1620 Quickstart (Jain/Floyd/Allman)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-amit-quick-start-03.txt

1635 Transport Mobility (Eddy)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-eddy-tlmarch-00.txt

1650 XCP (Falk)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-falk-xcp-spec-00.txt

1705 SCTP NAT Traversal (Xie/Stewart/Holdrege)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-xie-tsvwg-sctp-nat-00.txt

1720 RSVP for MPLS-TE (Davie)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lefaucheur-rsvp-dste-01.txt
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