Tom Kristensen | 2 Sep 18:02 2010

Re: How to transport BFCP in the presence of NATs

On 28 July 2010 17:45,  <lennox <at>> wrote:
> On Wednesday, July 28 2010, "Joerg Ott" wrote to "Jukka Manner, tsv-area <at>" saying:
>> this should be the preferred approach rather than doing a special
>> version of every application protocol to also run over UDP -- which
>> would just be calling for trouble, IMHO.
> Do you mean specifically GUT, or generally something that allows tunneling
> of TCP over UDP?  Other options in that space would be some sort of
> peer-to-peer Teredo, or draft-baset-tsvwg-tcp-over-udp.  Each of these makes
> different choices about the tradeoff between generality and overhead, and
> it's not clear to me which would be the best option for this functionality.
> The concern for BFCP specifically is that these ideas are all currently, at
> best, individual author drafts, which would need not only to be standardized
> but also to have documents written defining their use in SDP <proto> fields
> and ICE candidate addresses.
> Given how long this discussion has been going on already, I don't think
> anyone imagines this would be a quick process.  The community that uses BFCP
> is running into problems with peer-to-peer TCP communication in their
> currently deployed networks, and the feeling among much of this community is
> that progressing draft-sandbakken-xcon-bfcp-udp would be a much more
> expedious process than getting consensus on a generic TCP-over-UDP
> mechanism.

I completely agree with the argumentation and view here. More vendors
now see the need for a solution to allow BFCP work in important,
indeed real scenarios. I had nothing to add when Lennox wrote this
late in July. We have just submitted a new version of the draft in
(Continue reading)

David Harrington | 7 Sep 18:20 2010

Important Dates for IETF 79

Just a reminder.

Important dates for the Beijing IETF: 

2010-09-13 (Monday): Cutoff date for BOF proposal requests to Area
Directors at 17:00 PT (24:00 UTC). To request a BOF, please see
instructions on Requesting a BOF. 
2010-09-27 (Monday): Cutoff date for requests to schedule Working
Group meetings at 17:00 PT (24:00 UTC). To request a Working Group
session, use the IETF Meeting Session Request Tool. 
2010-09-27 (Monday): Cutoff date for Area Directors to approve BOFs at
17:00 PT (24:00 UTC). 
2010-10-06 (Wednesday): Preliminary agenda published for comment. 
2010-10-11 (Monday): Cutoff date for requests to reschedule Working
Group and BOF meetings 17:00 PT (24:00 UTC). 
2010-10-11 (Monday): Working Group Chair approval for initial document
(Version -00) submissions appreciated by 17:00 PT (24:00 UTC). 
2010-10-15 (Friday): Final agenda to be published. 
2010-10-18 (Monday): Internet Draft Cut-off for initial document (-00)
submission by 17:00 PT (24:00 UTC), upload using IETF ID Submission
2010-10-25 (Monday): Internet Draft final submission cut-off by 17:00
PT (24:00 UTC), upload using IETF ID Submission Tool. 
2010-10-27 (Wednesday): Draft Working Group agendas due by 17:00 PT
(24:00 UTC), upload using IETF Meeting Materials Management Tool. 
2010-11-01 (Monday): Revised Working Group agendas due by 17:00 PT
(01:00 Tuesday, November 02 UTC), upload using IETF Meeting Materials
Management Tool. 

(Continue reading)


TSVAREA presentation slots for Beijing


after skipping Maastricht, we will have a TSVAREA meeting in Beijing.

Please send agenda requests for TSVAREA in Beijing to tsv-ads <at>, including:

	requested time

The purpose of the TSVAREA meeting is to inform about and discuss important issues, developments and work
within the transport area or outside work that impacts the transport area. In contrast to TSVWG, TSVAREA
does not produce any documents. TSVAREA can include tutorial-style talks on transport topics, maybe
based on related IRTF or other research work. Another possibility is "mini-BOFs", where interested
people can get quick feedback on BOF ideas they may have.

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Lars Eggert | 17 Sep 09:20 2010

Fwd: NomCom 2010-2011: Call for More Nominations

Begin forwarded message:
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: NomCom Chair <nomcom-chair <at>>
> Date: Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 6:26 PM
> Subject: NomCom 2010-2011: Call for More Nominations
> To: IETF Announcement list <ietf-announce <at>>
> Hi Folks,
> Nominations have slowed down dramatically, so this update is to enlist
> the community in an effort to pick up the pace.
> We are very far behind in nominations for all the open positions but in
> particular we need nominations for the IESG and IAOC open positions.
> There have been no nominations received (other than for the incumbents)
> in INT, RAI, and RTG, and only 1 for OPS.  Likewise, in IAOC there have
> been no nominations submitted other than the incumbent.
> The acceptance rates of those nominated has also been very slow. In
> order to initiate the open list of willing nominees we are in need of a
> reasonable number of acceptances, and due to the low number of nominees
> and acceptances have delayed the start date for publishing the first
> open list to September 20.  So if you have been nominated and are
> willing to serve, but have not yet confirmed this by email back to the
> NomCom, please do so as soon as possible.
> We need Community input and participation! We cannot properly execute
> the task of selecting the best candidates for these positions with so
> few nominations and acceptances. So, please consider making
> nominations for the open positions, in particular those for which we
(Continue reading)

Bryan Ford | 22 Sep 19:24 2010

PFLDNeT 2010 workshop on transport protocols - deadline extended

For all of you doing exciting transport-related work, I'd like to encourage you to submit position papers to and participate in the PFLDNeT 2010 workshop on future transport technologies. We encourage both reporting of work-in-progress and presentation of preliminary ideas worth discussing in an intimate setting among fellow experts in the field. The call-for-papers is attached, with paper registration and submission deadlines extended until next week. Thanks, Bryan Ford and Injong Rhee (PFLDNeT 2010 co-chairs)

PFLDNeT 2010

The 8th International Workshop on Protocols for Future,
Large-Scale and Diverse Network Transports (PFLDNeT)

Franklin & Marshall College, Lancaster, Pennsylvania, USA
November 28-29, 2010
Web page:


The Internet continues to evolve along several dimensions, allowing
more and more end systems to communicate in increasingly diverse ways.
At one end of the performance spectrum, the Internet protocols provide
communication facilities for extremely-high-speed special-use
networks. At the other end of the performance spectrum, the Internet
contains very low-power and low-bandwidth networks that cater to
infrequent, bursty communication. Enabling efficient and high-
performance end-to-end communication across such a diverse
internetwork is a difficult problem, which is not solved by current
transport layer protocols.  The need to support an application base
that grows more and more dissimilar adds additional challenges.

The 8th International Workshop on Protocols for Future, Large-scale &
Diverse Network Transports (PFLDNeT) brings together researchers and
practitioners from all continents to exchange their ideas and
experiences in the area of transport issues for modern communication
networks. The workshop provides theorists, experimentalists and
technologists with a focused, highly interactive opportunity to
present, discuss and exchange experience on leading research,
development and future directions in transport and application
protocols for networks that are increasingly growing in size,
heterogeneity and dynamicity of interaction.

PFLDNeT 2010 solicits papers that further the research on end-to-end
communication protocols for todays and tomorrows Internet in all its
diversity along the continuum from specialized grid networks, optical
transports, wireless connections, to lossy and low-power networks.  A
specific focus of the workshop lies on transport protocols for the
efficient end-to-end transfer of data for a diverse set of
applications and application-layer protocols.

Now approaching its eighth instantiation, the PFLDneT workshop has
broadened its focus over the years from protocols targeted at specific
fast, long-distance networks (the original expansion of the PFLDneT
acronym) into a venue where all kinds of new ideas relating to
end-to-end transport protocols for diverse network scenarios are being
discussed first.

The previous International Workshops on Protocols for Fast, Long-
Distance Networks held at CERN (2003), Argonne (2004), Lyon (2005),
Nara (2006), Marina del Rey (2007), Manchester (2008), and Tokyo
(2009) were very successful in bringing together many researchers from
all over the world, including North America, Europe and Asia, who are
working on these problems.  PFLDNeT 2010 will continue this tradition,
and provide a perfect forum for researchers in this area to exchange
ideas and experience.

As in previous years, a meeting of the IRTF Internet Congestion
Control Research Group (ICCRG) will be co-located with PFLDNeT, on
November 29, 2010.

Important Dates and Relevant Event Information:

Abstract submission: October 4, 2010
Position paper submission: October 8, 2010
Notification of acceptance: October 27, 2010
Final camera ready submission: November 14, 2010
Workshop: November 28-29, 2010
IRTF ICCRG meeting (co-located): November 29, 2010

Note: PFLDNeT 2010 will be immediately before CoNEXT 2010, and its venue
is located only a short drive or train ride from Philadelphia, making it
easy to attend both events in one trip.


PFLDNeT 2010 covers all aspects related to transport protocols for the
current and future Internet, including, but not limited to:

- Transport protocol development
- Enhancements to TCP and other transports
- Innovative congestion control mechanisms
- Novel data transport protocols designed for new networks and applications
- Transport services for data center networks and grids
- Transport services for wireless and sensor networks
- Explicit signaling protocols: optimization criteria and deployment strategies
- Pacing and shaping of traffic
- Parallel transfers and multi-streaming
- Performance evaluation
- Modeling and simulation-based results
- Interaction of transport protocols and network equipment
- Experiments on real networks and live measurements
- Transport protocol benchmarking
- Transport over optical networks
- Transport implementation and hardware issues
- End system performance
- Data replication and striping
- Applications with demanding or unusual network performance requirements
- Bulk-data transfer applications
- Quality-of-service and scalability issues
- Multicast

Workshop Organizers:

Program Committee Chairs:
Bryan Ford, Yale University, USA
Injong Rhee, North Carolina State University, USA

Steering Committee:
Lachlan Andrew, Swinburne University of Technology, Australia
Lars Eggert, Nokia Research Center, Finland
Richard Hughes-Jones, Univ. of Manchester, UK
Katsushi Kobayashi, AIST, Japan
Doug Leith, Hamilton Institute, Ireland
Injong Rhee, North Carolina State University, USA
Pascale Vicat-Blanc, INRIA, France
Michael Welzl, University of Oslo, Norway

Technical Program Committee (preliminary):
Mark Allman, ICIR, USA
Scott Brim, Cisco, USA
Bob Briscoe, BT, UK
Dirceu Cavendish, Kyushu Institute of Technology, Japan
Stuart Cheshire, Apple, USA
Nandita Dukkipati, Google, USA
Larry Dunn, University of Minnesota, USA
Lars Eggert, Nokia Research Center, Finland
Ted Faber, USC/ISI, USA
Saikat Guha, Microsoft Research, India
Sangtae Ha, Princeton University, USA
Janardhan Iyengar, Franklin & Marshall College, USA
Katsushi Kobayashi, AIST, Japan
Aleksandar Kuzmanovic, Northwestern University, USA
Preethi Natarajan, Cisco, USA
Joerg Ott, TKK, Finland
Narasimha Reddy, Texas A&M University, USA
Medy Sanadidi, UCLA, USA
Pasi Sarolahti, Aalto University, Finland
Michael Scharf, Alcatel-Lucent, Germany
Hideyuki Shimonishi, NEC, Japan
Murari Sridharan, Microsoft, USA
Joe Touch, USC/ISI, USA
Michael Welzl, University of Oslo, Norway
Lisong Xu, University of Nebraska, USA

Local Arrangements:
Janardhan Iyengar, Franklin & Marshall College, USA

Eggert Lars | 27 Sep 14:09 2010

preliminary Beijing TSVAREA agenda


our agenda is pretty light, so I've asked for a 1-hour slot.


Transport Area Open Meeting
IETF-79, Beijing, China

David Harrington <ietfdbh <at>>
Lars Eggert <lars.eggert <at>>

Agenda Bashing
Note Well
State of the Area
10 minutes

The Referral Problem
Brian Carpenter, Sheng Jiang, Bo Zhou
20 minutes

Storage Trends (tentative)
20 minutes
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