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Stephan Wenger | 7 Dec 2005 03:49

New ITU-T document access tool

Folks,

I usually don't read or post to this list.  Please bear with me if this is
old news. 

The "bellheads" of the ITU-T have put together a pretty decent looking
document access mechanism that covers all their Study Group level documents
(they also have lower level "Rapporteur's meeting" documents, which are not
yet accessible through the system).  It's implemented in ASP :-( and
structured around meetings, so it's likely not directly applicable for us.
"Decent looking" is also a matter of personal taste.  However, I think it's
a great tool for them, and some of the ideas would be quite helpful at least
for me, if implemented in the IETF as well.  Check it out:
http://www.itu.int/ITU-T/meetingdocs/index.asp

Some of the concepts I like and haven't seen in the IETF are
- a very compact representation of the key properties of each file, e.g.
date, authors, title, and group to which this document belongs.
- All working documents (corresponding to I-Ds and WG administrative
documents, i.e. charters, reports, ...) available from one site.  In the
IETF case, where we don't charge for the RFCs we produce, they could be
integrated as well
- means to "shop" for documents, select them, and have the whole selection
as a zip file shipped to you by email.  For our small docs, a tarball would
do as well
- autoconverters to PDF etc.  For them perhaps more important than for us,
as they need to worry about all those different software versions.

This is not a "demand for implementation" or something, it's just a pointer
to something useful.
(Continue reading)

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Henrik Levkowetz | 7 Dec 2005 22:48

Re: New ITU-T document access tool

Hi Stephan,

    Some nice ideas here.  Adding Authors and also an Abstract to the
WG pages (under http://tools.ietf.org/wg/ ) is something which has crossed
my mind, but is waiting for time.  Auto-conversion of txt documents to html
and PDF is already in place, but not fully integrated into the WG pages
yet - I'm working on that.  Tarballing is also something which would be
nice, although I'm not sure how important that would be in practice.  I
checked if Apache had a capability like that built-in a few months ago, but
when I didn't find anything, I left it.  Converting all the WG pages to
static pages, so they could be rsynced has been on my mind for a while,
though.

Of the features available through the ITU-T document access tool, what
are the 2 most valuable which are not currently available through the
WG pages, to your thinking?

	Henrik

on 2005-12-07 03:49 Stephan Wenger said the following:
> Folks,
> 
> I usually don't read or post to this list.  Please bear with me if this is
> old news. 
> 
> The "bellheads" of the ITU-T have put together a pretty decent looking
> document access mechanism that covers all their Study Group level documents
> (they also have lower level "Rapporteur's meeting" documents, which are not
> yet accessible through the system).  It's implemented in ASP :-( and
> structured around meetings, so it's likely not directly applicable for us.
(Continue reading)

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Carsten Bormann | 7 Dec 2005 23:47
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Fwd: OT but nice productivity hack: Yubnub to find RFCs, I-Ds and WGs

Another thing the tools group (which is probably almost a subset of  
wgchairs <at> ietf.org, though) might want to look at, whether by  
installing additional words into the common yubnub or maybe even by  
running a special ietf yubnub.

Gruesse, Carsten

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Lisa Dusseault <lisa <at> osafoundation.org>
> Date: December 07 2005 23:10:17 Uhr GMT+01:00
> To: IMAP Extensions WG <ietf-imapext <at> imc.org>, IETF-iCalendar <ietf- 
> calsify <at> osafoundation.org>, WG Chairs <wgchairs <at> ietf.org>, WebDAV  
> WG <w3c-dist-auth <at> w3.org>
> Subject: OT but nice productivity hack: Yubnub to find RFCs, I-Ds  
> and WGs
>
>
> A co-worker (Jared Rhine) pointed me to Yubnub.org a while back.  I  
> have grown addicted to it as a Internet command-line to jump  
> straight to what I want.  E.g. I use a command like "thes addicted"  
> to quickly find thesaurus matches: absorbed, accustomed,  
> attached... :)
>
> There was one IETF-related yubnub command already and I added two  
> more very simple ones.
>
> To jump to an RFC: rfc xxxx
> 	e.g. 'rfc 2822'  (don't forget space)
>
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Frank Ellermann | 8 Dec 2005 18:27
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tools.ietf.org/id issue (?)

Hi, trying http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-stumpf-dns-mtamark
I get http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-stumpf-dns-mtamark with
an option to look at:
                                                     ______
http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-stumpf-dns-mtamark-02.txt-26

What I really wanted was the last available txt or rfcmarkup of
<http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stumpf-dns-mtamark-04>

That gets me a 404 (expired October 31), -05 is the tombstone.
I still have -04 in my "special interest draft collection"...

http://purl.net/xyzzy/home/test/draft-stumpf-dns-mtamark-04.txt

...but actually I intend to remove the public access to this
"I-D collection" when http://tools.ietf.org/id is officially
announced.
                      Bye, Frank

P.S. (joke):  I managed to "beat" the URL length for e.g.
<http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-stumpf-dns-mtamark> with
<http://purl.net/net/draft/stumpf-dns-mtamark> by seven
characters before I got the idea that "tools.ietf.org/html/"
already uses the relevant "tools.ietf.org/id/" output... ;-)
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Henrik Levkowetz | 8 Dec 2005 22:50

Re: tools.ietf.org/id issue (?)

Hi Frank,

on 2005-12-08 18:27 Frank Ellermann said the following:
> Hi, trying http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-stumpf-dns-mtamark
> I get http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-stumpf-dns-mtamark with
> an option to look at:
>                                                      ______
> http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-stumpf-dns-mtamark-02.txt-26
> 
> What I really wanted was the last available txt or rfcmarkup of
> <http://ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stumpf-dns-mtamark-04>

Yah.  There was a bunch of .txt-NNN documents which messed up
things; remainders of completing the repository some time ago.
I've removed them and things should work as expected now.

> That gets me a 404 (expired October 31), -05 is the tombstone.
> I still have -04 in my "special interest draft collection"...
> 
> http://purl.net/xyzzy/home/test/draft-stumpf-dns-mtamark-04.txt
> 
> ...but actually I intend to remove the public access to this
> "I-D collection" when http://tools.ietf.org/id is officially
> announced.
>                       Bye, Frank

Right.  I mostly need to put in place an automatic opt-out
feature for authors who doesn't want their old drafts available,
I think.
(Continue reading)

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Frank Ellermann | 9 Dec 2005 01:31
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Re: tools.ietf.org/id issue (?)

Henrik Levkowetz wrote:

> things should work as expected now.

Yes, great, thanks.

> I mostly need to put in place an automatic opt-out feature
> for authors who doesn't want their old drafts available,
> I think.

ACK, but admittedly I don't see how you want to implement
"automatic".  It's something authors could decide when they
submit a draft, with a manual feature to change their mind
later (e.g. by submitting an explicit tombstone).

 [ shorter <http://purl.net/net/draft/stumpf-dns-mtamark> ]
> Heh :-)

http://purl.net/maint/display.pl.cgi?noedit=on&purl=/NET/draft/&id=nobody
shows my first version - before I saw that this was a waste of
time, because you already do it for tools.ietf.org/html/draft-

                             Bye, Frank
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Henrik Levkowetz | 9 Dec 2005 10:57

Re: Re: tools.ietf.org/id issue (?)


on 2005-12-09 01:31 Frank Ellermann said the following:

>> I mostly need to put in place an automatic opt-out feature
>> for authors who doesn't want their old drafts available,
>> I think.
> 
> ACK, but admittedly I don't see how you want to implement
> "automatic".  It's something authors could decide when they
> submit a draft, with a manual feature to change their mind
> later (e.g. by submitting an explicit tombstone).

Well, yes - but there's the legacy drafts to handle, which
have been submitted with the expectancy of 6 months lifetime.

The automatic opt-out is for the change-of-mind part:

With the appropriate checks and guards against spam, 
the idea is to basically have a button (it'll probably be on
a separate page) which says "I'm the author and I don't want
this old draft of mine available here."  I'll parse the draft,
extract the author email, send a cookie to (each of) the author(s)
and if returned from all authors, set a flag to mark the draft
hidden.  After that, you'll get some kind of tombstone instead
of the draft.  (With an opt-in link for the author(s)).

Of course, I have to provide manual handling, even so...  but
it has to be plain and easy for people to take their drafts
out of circulation, not because I expect the workload of actually
doing manual flagging to be heavy, but because people need to
(Continue reading)

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Pasi.Eronen | 9 Dec 2005 11:16
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New tool prototype: Daily dose of IETF process

Hi everyone,

I'd like to announce a prototype of a new tool I've been hacking 
on lately.

http://people.nokia.net/~pasi/dailydose/

We already have good tools that show what's the current status of
various things in IETF; this tools shows the "delta" of that, or
what has changed during the last day. In other words, the script
downloads various IETF data sources daily, runs a diff against
yesterday's data, and displays the changes as an HTML page. And
there's an RSS feed, too, to make this Web 2.0 compliant :-)

The main data source is the "all_id.txt" ID Tracker database dump;
additional data comes from Bill Fenner's excellent tools, and some
others (the web page has a full list). For each document whose
status has changed, the tool throws in the abstract and a couple of
links to various other tools as well (e.g., direct link to Henrik's
diff tool for updated drafts).

In addition to showing what's happening, Jari Arkko suggested the
page should also show what's not happening. So there's an "IESG
Non-Progress" section showing the drafts that have been in the same
state for a long time (based on Bill's data, again). I hope that
making this data visible leads to this section becoming shorter 
soon :-)

Comments, bug reports, suggestions for improvement, etc. are 
most welcome!
(Continue reading)

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Pekka Savola | 9 Dec 2005 15:13
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Re: New tool prototype: Daily dose of IETF process

On Fri, 9 Dec 2005, Pasi.Eronen <at> nokia.com wrote:
> what has changed during the last day. In other words, the script
> downloads various IETF data sources daily, runs a diff against
> yesterday's data, and displays the changes as an HTML page. And
> there's an RSS feed, too, to make this Web 2.0 compliant :-)
...
> Comments, bug reports, suggestions for improvement, etc. are
> most welcome!

While this might fit in the generic problem space you're looking into, 
I'm not sure it needs to be solved by the same tool, though...

One thing I've been looking for a long time has been "What has changed 
under www.ietf.org or www.iab.org in the last X days and how?"

It's really frustrating to click through (most) pages looking for new 
or updated stuff, and for updated stuff, try to figure out how it has 
or hasn't changed.  It's not uncommon that web pages are reorganized a 
bit, new features added, etc. without announcement.

Tracking updates on the web pages would be great ("the list of pages 
sorted by the modification date").  Being able to see the diffs in 
changed files with respect to earlier version would be fantastic.

If you'd like more specific data tracking suggestions, maybe one could 
track for instance:
  - IESG and/or IAB minutes
  - IESG projects list
  - IESG Statements on Accepted Individual Submissions
  - IESG Do Not Publish Requests on Individual Submissions
(Continue reading)

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Ray Pelletier | 10 Dec 2005 10:20
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Re: New tool prototype: Daily dose of IETF process

Pasi,
Love it!
1st suggestion: Any chance we could select a start and end date period?
2nd:  Check blocks to select among info, i.e., IETF-Announce, New 
Drafts, etc

Thanks.  Great tool.
Ray

Pasi.Eronen <at> nokia.com wrote:

>Hi everyone,
>
>I'd like to announce a prototype of a new tool I've been hacking 
>on lately.
>
>http://people.nokia.net/~pasi/dailydose/
>
>We already have good tools that show what's the current status of
>various things in IETF; this tools shows the "delta" of that, or
>what has changed during the last day. In other words, the script
>downloads various IETF data sources daily, runs a diff against
>yesterday's data, and displays the changes as an HTML page. And
>there's an RSS feed, too, to make this Web 2.0 compliant :-)
>
>The main data source is the "all_id.txt" ID Tracker database dump;
>additional data comes from Bill Fenner's excellent tools, and some
>others (the web page has a full list). For each document whose
>status has changed, the tool throws in the abstract and a couple of
>links to various other tools as well (e.g., direct link to Henrik's
(Continue reading)

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Gmane