Mailing list for Timing over IP Connections and Transfer of Clock (TICTOC) ()

Shahram Davari | 1 Mar 2012 23:13

Re: FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-02.txt

Hi Stefano,

Thanks for our comments and Sorry for delay. I will go through your comments this week and if needed will
update the draft accordingly. Will keep you posted.

Thanks
Shahram

-----Original Message-----
From: Stefano Ruffini [mailto:stefano.ruffini <at> ericsson.com] 
Sent: Monday, February 13, 2012 7:53 AM
To: Shahram Davari; manav.bhatia <at> alcatel-lucent.com; tictoc <at> ietf.org
Subject: RE: [TICTOC] FW: I-D Action: draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-02.txt

Dear Manav, Sharham, 1588 over mpls draft Authors 

 I have collected some notes on version 02 of the 1588 over MPLS draft that may be considered for future
versions of the document. 

1) In general the draft needs some clean-up. In particular as also highlighted in previous discussions
(e.g. in Taipei) some of the aspects to be addressed are outside the scope of TICTOC, and a review with the
MPLS WG will certainly be required. For instance the description of the protocol - particularly with
respect to how layering is modeled in the behavior of an LSR. 
Section 16 (e.g. the description of LER behavior in section 16.1) should be among the main parts to be
checked by the MPLS WG. 
The CCAMP WG should also be involved in the review . 

2) There is a serious mismatch between what is currently in the introduction and what the rest of the draft
includes. Most notably, the introduction seems to imply that only 1588 PTP messages are transported
while it is clear from the abstract and in subsequent sections (10 and 16, particularly) that other

(Continue reading)

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Yaakov Stein | 6 Mar 2012 17:49

TICTOC meeting at IETF-83

Hi all,

Please note that the TICTOC session is early Monday morning, so make your travel plans accordingly.

I have uploaded a preliminary agenda to the meeting site http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/agenda/agenda-83-tictoc.txt

If you believe that additional items need to be discussed, please email the chairs.

Y(J)S

_______________________________________________
TICTOC mailing list
TICTOC <at> ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc

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Cui Yang | 7 Mar 2012 04:35

Please Comment on Practical Solutions for Encrypted Synchronization Protocol

Hi, all,

I have posted a new draft that discusses the practical solutions for encrypted synchronization protocols.

Since we have discussed a lot on this problem, and the security requirement of synchronization also noted that confidentiality may need protection, especially in case that the confidentiality protection is mandatory. Synchronization should be available when the traffic is encrypted. The influences by the encryption are explained, and several possible solutions have been discussed.

The URL is below, please review and comment.

Title : Practical solutions for encrypted synchronization protocol

Author(s) : Y. Cui,

M. Bhatia,

D. Zhang

Filename : draft-cui-tictoc-encrypted-synchronization-00.txt

Pages : 10

Date : Mar. 1, 2012

This informational document analyzes the accuracy issues with time

synchronization protocols when time synchronization packets are

encrypted during transmission. In addition, several candidate

solutions on such issues are introduced.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cui-tictoc-encrypted-synchronization

Thanks,

Yang

==================

Yang Cui, Ph.D.

Huawei Technologies

cuiyang <at> huawei.com

_______________________________________________
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TICTOC <at> ietf.org
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Cui Yang | 7 Mar 2012 04:45

答复: TICTOC meeting at IETF-83

Hi, Yaakov and Karen

Glad to see the tictoc meeting on the first day.

I would like to borrow 15 mins to explain our new draft

http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cui-tictoc-encrypted-synchronization

Thanks,

Yang

==================

Yang Cui, Ph.D.

Huawei Technologies

cuiyang <at> huawei.com

发件人: tictoc-bounces <at> ietf.org [mailto:tictoc-bounces <at> ietf.org] 代表 Yaakov Stein
发送时间: 2012年3月7日 0:50
收件人: tictoc <at> ietf.org
主题: [TICTOC] TICTOC meeting at IETF-83

Hi all,

Please note that the TICTOC session is early Monday morning, so make your travel plans accordingly.

I have uploaded a preliminary agenda to the meeting site http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/agenda/agenda-83-tictoc.txt

If you believe that additional items need to be discussed, please email the chairs.

Y(J)S

_______________________________________________
TICTOC mailing list
TICTOC <at> ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc

headers

Yaakov Stein | 7 Mar 2012 11:15

Re: TICTOC meeting at IETF-83

Sébastien

Sorry for missing your slot request.

I have updated the agenda, giving you time to present your alternate approach.

Y(J)S

From: sebastien.jobert <at> orange.com [mailto:sebastien.jobert <at> orange.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2012 11:51
To: Yaakov Stein; tictoc <at> ietf.org
Subject: RE: [TICTOC] TICTOC meeting at IETF-83

Hi,

I have uploaded a draft which discussed the topic of PTP over MPLS networks:

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jobert-tictoc-ptp-link-local-00.pdf

http://www.ietf.org/id/draft-jobert-tictoc-ptp-link-local-00.txt

Abstract

This document introduces a method for transporting PTP messages over

an MPLS network supported by an Ethernet physical layer. The MPLS

layer itself is not used to carry the PTP messages with this method;

instead, a link local Ethernet channel is used. Several advantages

related to this method are highlighted in this document. The method

targets in particular telecom applications requiring accurate

phase/time synchronization, with "link-by-link" PTP architectures,

where all the network nodes support a PTP function, such as Boundary

Clock or Transparent Clock.

Any comment is welcome.

Yaakov, as I told you by email, I would like if possible to briefly introduce this draft during the TICTOC meeting (I guess that 10 min will be sufficient).

I think it is connected in a way to the topic discussed in the draft “draft-ietf-tictoc-1588overmpls-02”

Thanks.

BR,

Sébastien

De : tictoc-bounces <at> ietf.org [mailto:tictoc-bounces <at> ietf.org] De la part de Yaakov Stein
Envoyé : mardi 6 mars 2012 17:50
À : tictoc <at> ietf.org
Objet : [TICTOC] TICTOC meeting at IETF-83

Hi all,

Please note that the TICTOC session is early Monday morning, so make your travel plans accordingly.

I have uploaded a preliminary agenda to the meeting site http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/83/agenda/agenda-83-tictoc.txt

If you believe that additional items need to be discussed, please email the chairs.

Y(J)S

_______________________________________________
TICTOC mailing list
TICTOC <at> ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc

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Cui Yang | 7 Mar 2012 12:44

Re: IPsec security for packet based synchronization

Hi, Danny,

Sorry for the very late response! m(_ _)m 
I tried to include this correspondence in updated/new draft.

The answer is in the following,
1. 3GPP Technical Specification TS.33.320 
http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/specs/html-info/33320.htm

-4.3.1 Backhaul link
-4.4.5 Requirements on Backhaul Link
-7.4 IPsec Tunnel Establishment
In which, the mandatory implementation of IPsec ESP tunnel is described, or in other words "SHALL be provided"

2. In Taipei meeting, I disagreed with the opinion that identified timing packets weaken the
synchronization protocol against the packet hijacking attack,
because normal synchronization protocol is originally insecure to the underlying attack, no matter
identifier is employed or not.
More discussion is also provided in a new draft, Sec 3.2
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cui-tictoc-encrypted-synchronization


Drafts are still being revised, any comment is highly appreciated.

Thanks,
Yang
==================
 Yang Cui,  Ph.D.
 Huawei Technologies
 cuiyang <at> huawei.com


> -----邮件原件-----
> 发件人: tictoc-bounces <at> ietf.org [mailto:tictoc-bounces <at> ietf.org] 代表
> Danny Mayer
> 发送时间: 2011年12月26日 11:11
> 收件人: tictoc <at> ietf.org
> 主题: [TICTOC] IPsec security for packet based synchronization
> 
> The minutes of the taipei meeting state this:
> > 6.   IPsec security for packet based synchronization
> > Yang Cui on behalf of the author, Yixian Xu, presented
> > draft-xu-tictoc-ipsec-security-for-synchronization-02.  This draft has had a
> > large volume of discussion on list .  There have been two basic questions
> that
> > have been brought up on the list: Do we need to encrypt timing packets?
> Do
> > we need to identify and decrypt timing packets right away (before
> decrypting
> > all traffic)?  Yang indicated that the answer to question 1 is yes for 3GPPP
> > Femtocell and that the draft provided the only efficient mechanism for
> > carrying out a solution to the second question.  It had been brought up on
> the
> > list that if timing packets were easily identified then they were more
> susceptible
> > to attackers, for which Yang disagreed.   The authors a preparing a new
> version of
> > the draft which addresses the points discussed on the list.
> 
> If the answer to question 1 is yes for 3GPP Femtocell then there needs
> to be an explicit answer to why and what this is with a reference to
> supporting documents and the section of the documents.
> 
> Also Yang disagreed about the vunerability of identified timing packets
> so he should state exactly why he disagrees along with any supporting
> documents and sections of those documents.
> 
> Danny
> _______________________________________________
> TICTOC mailing list
> TICTOC <at> ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc

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Danny Mayer | 7 Mar 2012 13:56

Re: Please Comment on Practical Solutions for Encrypted Synchronization Protocol

I have already said this before and I will repeat this for the purposes
of feedback.

Time packets do not need to be encrypted as not only do they not contain
anything secret, even if you knew the contents they are useless anytime
after the packet has been delivered.

You do yourself a disfavor in encrypting something that is not worth
encrypting. It takes processing overhead, increases packet size, and
there is no gain in doing so. You need to justify encrypting something
and please don't say that it is because some other document says to
encrypt everything. I want to know what is the benefit from doing so,
what are the risks in not doing so and what is the cost of doing so,
particularly in loss of accuracy, increased error budget, etc.

The whole thing is a bad idea from what I can tell.

Danny

On 3/6/2012 10:35 PM, Cui Yang wrote:
> Hi, all,
> 
>  
> 
> I have posted a new draft that discusses the practical solutions for
> encrypted synchronization protocols.
> 
>  
> 
> Since we have discussed a lot on this problem, and the security
> requirement of synchronization also noted that confidentiality may need
> protection, especially in case that the confidentiality protection is
> mandatory. Synchronization should be available when the traffic is
> encrypted. The influences by the encryption are explained, and several
> possible solutions have been discussed.
> 
> The URL is below, please review and comment.
> 
>  
> 
>     Title      : Practical solutions for encrypted synchronization protocol
> 
> Author(s)  : Y. Cui,
> 
> M. Bhatia,
> 
> D. Zhang
> 
> Filename   : draft-cui-tictoc-encrypted-synchronization-00.txt
> 
> Pages     : 10
> 
> Date      : Mar. 1, 2012
> 
>    This informational document analyzes the accuracy issues with time
> 
>    synchronization protocols when time synchronization packets are
> 
>    encrypted during transmission. In addition, several candidate
> 
>   solutions on such issues are introduced.
> 
>  
> 
> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
> 
> http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-cui-tictoc-encrypted-synchronization
> 
>  
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Yang
> 
> ==================
> 
> Yang Cui,  Ph.D.
> 
> Huawei Technologies
> 
> cuiyang <at> huawei.com

headers

sebastien.jobert | 7 Mar 2012 10:51

Re: TICTOC meeting at IETF-83

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