Tom Kessler | 2 Jan 1991 22:24
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Re: Minutes of the IETF 8bit meeting


I think it would be best to drop the mention of Sun making the binaries
available outside of the working group.  My management is allowing me
to spend a little time to do the same changes to the generic berkeley
sendmail release.  I believe that I will be able to make the diffs to the
Berkeley source publicly available.  I probably will not be able to make
a release of the Sun binaries available widely do to hassle of having to
go through the sun release process plus the usual liability issues.
--Tom

Phillip G. Gross | 3 Jan 1991 04:30
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Re: Minutes of the IETF 8bit meeting

Tom,

Thanks.  I think that what you suggest is just as effective.  My thanks
to SUN for allowing you the time to do that.  We should see that SUN
gets some kudos for that, if that is agreeable to SUN.

Thanks,
Phill

Jan Michael Rynning | 10 Jan 1991 15:53
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Re: Minutes of the IETF 8bit meeting

Greg Vaudreuil <gvaudre <at> nri.reston.va.us> writes in his minutes:
> ...  A command "ebit" was proposed in the
> document by Rynning and Eriksson to identify new mailers.  The group
> agreed that this extension should be considered for SMTP. An alternate
> HELO command could be defined to query a mailer for 8 bit
> compatibility, such as HELO8.

RFC 821 specifies the command syntax like this:
>      4.1.1.  COMMAND SEMANTICS
>
>         The SMTP commands define the mail transfer or the mail system
>         function requested by the user.  SMTP commands are character
>         strings terminated by <CRLF>.  The command codes themselves are
>         alphabetic characters terminated by <SP> if parameters follow
>         and <CRLF> otherwise.  The syntax of mailboxes must conform to
>         receiver site conventions.  The SMTP commands are discussed
>         below.  The SMTP replies are discussed in the Section 4.2.

Consequently, we can't have commands with non-alphabetic characters,
like HELO8, unless we change the syntax.  On second thought, it may
be a good idea to generalize the proposed EBIT into a do-you-support-
this-feature command, let's call it FEAT.  To inquire if the receiver
can handle 8-bit data, the SMTP sender would then say FEAT EIGHTBIT.

Greg Vaudreuil <gvaudre <at> nri.reston.va.us> writes in his minutes:
> Rynning and Eriksson's proposal suggested a mechanism to transmit 8
> bit character sets through SMTP. The proposal consisted of 1)
> eliminating the 7bit restriction in SMTP, and in cases where 8 bit
> SMTP is not implimented 2) proposing a 7 but encoding for non-8 bit
> systems called TEX-HEX.
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Greg Vaudreuil | 15 Jan 1991 19:45
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Welcome and Mail Issues


Howdy.

    For those folks who have recently joined the mailing list, I am
resending the minutes from the first organizational meeting of this
group at the last IETF in Boulder. The group focused on two main
points, 1) Extensions of SMTP to allow binary files, 2) and
standardizing a mechanism for including body parts.

    At the first meeting, the group discussed the RFC 1154 method for
encoding body parts. At the meeting I took an action to contact the
authors of 1154 and discuss the mail extensions effort and
specifically the encoding method of RFC 1154. I contacted David
Robinson, one of the authors of RFC 1154.  During the working group
meeting, many felt that the RFC 1154 approach was seriously flawed by
not specifying a content-type field along with encoding field.  The
group recognized that a single body type can be encoded several
different ways and did not see how to reconcile that with the
document.

    Robinson responded that a basic assumption in RFC 1154 was that
SMTP would continue to have a 7 bit restriction, and all body parts
would use a 7 bit encodings.  In this case, a particular encoding type
would imply a content type.  The working group has begun with a
different assumption, that eight bit smtp implementations will be
intermixed with seven bit systems.  In this situation, there are at
least two different encoding schemes necessary, one for 7 bit and one
for 8 bit systems.

    After by announcement to tcp-ip and IETF, I have received several
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Ned Freed, Postmaster | 15 Jan 1991 20:55

RFC1154

My big problem with RFC1154 is not in what headers it specifies or what
encodings it uses. Stuff like this is of less concern than the fundamental
approach that RFC1154 advocates to encapsulation; you can always fix the
lack of a particular piece of information by adding it later (and RFC822
certainly is extensible enough to allow such additions).

I think the major problem with RFC1154 is that it employs line counting as
a strategy for encapsulation. This is a terrible idea. The world is full
of mailers that do all kinds of things to message text, including all sorts
of different forms of line wrapping. The single most prevalent example of
widespread line wrapping is BITNET, where inherent format limitations often
force wrapping as the only means of converting messages to an acceptable
format (we're talking 80 columns here). There are countless other examples,
of course, including all those word processors out there that reformat
documents automatically and often without the user noticing.

Thus, I believe that if we start using line counting as a common strategy for
encapsulation, we're buying into a nightmare situation of obscure bugs,
processing problems, and trashed messages. We're also buying into the need
to write code that hunts around for shifting boundaries in messages. I for
one have better things to do with my development time!

The alternative to line counts to delimit bodyparts is the use of special
delimiters and character stuffing, aka RFC934. Now, I'm not especially
fond of the particular approach that RFC934 advocates. It also needs to
have some details tightened up insofar as bodypart-specific header lines
(mandatory or optional -- the seem to be mandatory, but the spec never comes
out and says so) are concerned. However, it does have the advantage of
current widespread use, several other RFCs depend on it (RFC987 is one), and
I know of no real technical problems with it. RFC934 tolerates line wrapping
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Tom Kessler | 16 Jan 1991 19:28
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SMTP changes stuff


I've held off doing the work for a bit in part to see what sort of 
discussion(s) cranked up.

I wonder whether we might want to implement something like an
EXTHELO
or
OPTHELO
or
HELOOPT
command.  This command could take as arguments options or extensions which
you might wish to support.  E.g. you might get something like
OPTHELO BINARY BATCH FUNKYOPTION hostname.domain.name
A reply could contain information about which options you support (or
unknown command if you don't support any).

The tricky part being that this would make host names which are the same
as any options we define because it's amibguous as to whether 
BATCH is your name or BATCH is an option.  

The main advantage to loading the option(s) into the hello command is that
you save an extra round trip when you setup the connection.  Is it worth
going to the trouble to do this, or would folks rather see something like
a seperate BINARY (or EBIT or whatever) command.   

I am interested in what people think about this.

--Tom Kessler

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Greg Vaudreuil | 16 Jan 1991 20:36
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Re: SMTP changes stuff


>The main advantage to loading the option(s) into the hello command is that
>you save an extra round trip when you setup the connection.  Is it worth
>going to the trouble to do this, or would folks rather see something like
>a seperate BINARY (or EBIT or whatever) command.

I would prefer not to do option negotiation, and instead define a set
of helo commands that accomplish the same ends.

	HELO   (7 bit mail)
	HELOBINARY (8 bit mail, no line restriction)
	HELOBATCH (Batched mail jobs, 8 bit, no line restriction)) 
	    All modified mailer doing batch mail should also
	    be modified to accept binary mail at the same time.

If a command unrecognized results from any of these commands, a
fallback to HELO is reasonable.  This is in fact negotiation without
the overhead of parsing a line of n options.  By eliminating certian
non-sensical, or non-optimal combinations the number of HELO commands
can be sufficiently small.

Greg V.

Tom Kessler | 16 Jan 1991 22:39
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Re: SMTP changes stuff


That sounds reasonable to me.  That will certainly keep things simple.

Einar Stefferud | 16 Jan 1991 22:38
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Re: SMTP changes stuff

It should be trivial to avoid confusion with host names in the arg list
by just using some characters in the args that are illegal in any host
name.domain...\Stef 

Mark Crispin | 16 Jan 1991 23:18

re: SMTP changes stuff

I don't care for the idea of fooling around with the HELO command on the
grounds that too many sites get it wrong as it is.

I believe that SMTP commands should continue to be four characters, for the
possible benefit of implementations that use this fact.

I also feel that we should use the right tool for the right task.  To wit, we
should not overload a functionality unnecessarily.  We should separate the
function of specifying data characteristics from other functionalities which
belong at the control level.

I propose that we do something along these lines:

1. Control-level functions should be handled by new SMTP commands.  I'm not
really sure how many of these there are.  I don't, for example, understand
what the need is for an explicit BATCH control command.

2. Functionalities which identify the form of SMTP data should be options to a
new XDAT command.  XDAT is similar to DATA, except:
	a) it takes one or more subcommands identifying the form of the data
	   (e.g. BINARY, 8BIT)
	b) the data follows such a form.
If XDATA is rejected, then the DATA command is used and the message is
transmitted as 7-bit data as before.  We'll need some encoding scheme and add
some magic cookie into the header to identify such a transformation.  A smart
SMTP server or mailer, upon seeing the magic cookie, will transform it back
and flush the cookie before passing it on.

It is important to know that the structure of the data is beyond the scope of
SMTP.  All we're dealing with here is binary vs. text (with possible newline
(Continue reading)


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