Christopher W Apple | 4 Nov 07:16 1997
Picon

Re: pre-I-D meta data syntax spec

Frank Dawson wrote:
> I believe it was decided that the character set parameter was to be removed
> from MIME-Directory.

Can anyone confirm this? Or say that this is not the case?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Apple                     Business Site: AnyWho Directory Services
Internet Directory Group                       http://www.anywho.com
AT&T Laboratories
capple <at> master.control.att.com
+1 908 582 2409                 Tired of slow directories?  Try AnyWho.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Frank Dawson | 4 Nov 18:07 1997
Picon
Picon

Re: pre-I-D meta data syntax spec

 This was decided at the Memphis meeting.

-----Original Message-----
From: Christopher W Apple <capple <at> master.control.att.com>
To: ietf-asid <at> umich.edu <ietf-asid <at> umich.edu>; ietf-schema-reg <at> imc.org
<ietf-schema-reg <at> imc.org>
Cc: howes <at> netscape.com <howes <at> netscape.com>; paf <at> swip.net <paf <at> swip.net>;
cweider <at> MICROSOFT.com <cweider <at> MICROSOFT.com>; michaelm <at> rwhois.net
<michaelm <at> rwhois.net>
Date: Tuesday, November 04, 1997 3:14 AM
Subject: Re: pre-I-D meta data syntax spec

Frank Dawson wrote:
> I believe it was decided that the character set parameter was to be
removed
> from MIME-Directory.

Can anyone confirm this? Or say that this is not the case?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Apple                     Business Site: AnyWho Directory Services
Internet Directory Group                       http://www.anywho.com
AT&ww.aT Laboratories
capple <at> master.control.att.com
+1 908 582 2409                 Tired of slow directories?  Try AnyWho.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Christopher W Apple | 4 Nov 19:13 1997
Picon

Re: pre-I-D meta data syntax spec


The current version of the MIME-DIR document (draft-ietf-asid-mime-direct-04.txt)
was updated in July 1997 and states in paragraph 5.3 that charset is a REQUIRED
MIME header parameter. After checking the meeting minutes from Memphis, I see this:

"The final issue discussed was the use of the "charset" attribute parameter,
allowing the character set to be set on individual values within a text/directory
content-type. This was felt to be a bad thing and contrary to the MIME way of
doing things and contrary to the IAB character set proclamation
(thou shalt use UTF-8) by several people.  

After debate, the group decided to remove the "charset" attributes parameter
and require the UTF-8 "charset" MIME header parameter be specified by default
on text/directory content-types. The result of this is the loss of ability
to switch charsets on a per-value basis within a text/directory component,
but this is thought to be a good thing."

The way which we are considering using a charset parameter is consistent with
both the current MIME-DIR spec and the meeting minutes from Memphis.

This will be more apparent after the meta data document is reformatted to comply
with the MIME-DIR spec.

> This was decided at the Memphis meeting.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Christopher W Apple <capple <at> master.control.att.com>
>To: ietf-asid <at> umich.edu <ietf-asid <at> umich.edu>; ietf-schema-reg <at> imc.org
><ietf-schema-reg <at> imc.org>
>Cc: howes <at> netscape.com <howes <at> netscape.com>; paf <at> swip.net <paf <at> swip.net>;
(Continue reading)

Frank Dawson | 5 Nov 15:58 1997
Picon
Picon

Re: pre-I-D meta data syntax spec

I hope that folks on the mailing list aren't confusing the removal of the
CHARSET attribute parameter *within* a MIME-Directory content with the
CHARSET parameter on the Content-Type MIME header for "text/directory"
content types!

In Memphis we agreed to remove the CHARSET that, previously, was allowed
within a MIME-Directory content on text values. For example, the attribute
sequence:

    N;CHARSET=ISO-8859-1:Dawson;Frank;R.;Mr.;Jr.

with the CHARSET attribute parameter is effected by this decision. Now you
can only specify:

    N::Dawson;Frank;R.;Mr.;Jr.

and the ISO Latin Alphabet Number One must be specified in the Content-Type
MIME header sequence:

    Content-Type:text/directory;charset=ISO-8859-1

Everyone clear? And agree?

- - Frank Dawson

Michael Mealling | 5 Nov 16:01 1997

Re: pre-I-D meta data syntax spec

Frank Dawson said this:
[Charset iso-8859-1 unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
> Everyone clear? And agree?

I didn't like it at the time and I still don't but I'm willing
to let it slide for concensus' sake.

-MM

--

-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Mealling	| 505 Huntmar Park Drive       | Phone:  (703)742-0400
Software Engineer	| Herndon, VA 22070	       | Fax:    (703)742-9552
Network Solutions	| <URL:http://www.netsol.com>  | michaelm <at> rwhois.net

Frank Dawson | 5 Nov 16:18 1997
Picon
Picon

Re: pre-I-D meta data syntax spec

Michael Mealling wrote, in part:

"I didn't like it at the time and I still don't but I'm willing
to let it slide for concensus' sake."

I assume the part that you did not like was the removal of the CHARSET
attribute parameter.

Well, I agree. I know that this feature was found very useful by the MOPA
and other groups in the Pacific Rim. However, some of the reviewers felt
that this simplified character shifting approach flew in the face of ISO
2022 standards and also over simplified the issues of character set
shifting.

Having had to work with ISO 2022, I thought that it was a welcome
simplification...but, I too "let it slide for concensus' sake."

Did we make a mistake?

- - Frank

Christopher W Apple | 5 Nov 18:34 1997
Picon

Re: pre-I-D meta data syntax spec

Frank Dawson wrote:
>and the ISO Latin Alphabet Number One must be specified in the Content-Type
>MIME header sequence:
>
>    Content-Type:text/directory;charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>Everyone clear? And agree?

I don't think we need to re-open this discussion. You replied to a posting
of a pre-I-D document on the ietf-schema-reg mailing list. This posting was not
based on a MIME-DIR profile. We made the decision to convert it to a MIME-DIR
profile after your reply hit the mailing list. In your earlier posting, what
you said was:

"I believe it was decided that the character set parameter was to be removed
from MIME-Directory."

The current MIME-DIR spec does have something called a charset parameter that
is intended for use in the Content-Type header. So, this statement was ambiguous
(didn't mention that you were referring to the removal of a parameter intended
for use inside of a MIME part) and this is what caused my confusion. Also this
comment was not applicable to the document in question because, at the time,
it was not a MIME-DIR profile.

We could argue about the semantic distinctions between "charset" and the
phrase "character set" but I don't think that would be productive.

At any rate, I'll comply with draft-ietf-asid-mime-direct-04.txt.

Sorry to have opened a can of worms. Lets close it quickly, lest they
(Continue reading)

Chris Newman | 5 Nov 18:48 1997

Re: pre-I-D meta data syntax spec

On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Frank Dawson wrote:
> In Memphis we agreed to remove the CHARSET that, previously, was allowed
> within a MIME-Directory content on text values. For example, the attribute
> sequence:
> 
>     N;CHARSET=ISO-8859-1:Dawson;Frank;R.;Mr.;Jr.
> 
> with the CHARSET attribute parameter is effected by this decision. Now you
> can only specify:
> 
>     N::Dawson;Frank;R.;Mr.;Jr.
> 
> and the ISO Latin Alphabet Number One must be specified in the Content-Type
> MIME header sequence:
> 
>     Content-Type:text/directory;charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Everyone clear? And agree?

Yes.  This is a *vast* improvement.  Without this change, every VCARD or
mime directory processor would have to have a tightly integrated
charset-conversion engine.  With this change, VCARD processors can
leverage existing MIME charset-conversion engines.  Hopefully in ten years
or so we can use only ISO 10646/UTF-8 -- something available in most
modern operating systems.  Then we could ditch those huge complex
charset-conversion engines.

Besides, if it's a text media type, it has to use a single charset.  You'd
have to make it application/directory if you wanted to switch charsets on
the fly.
(Continue reading)

Christopher W Apple | 6 Nov 06:28 1997
Picon

draft-apple-schema-proc-list-00.txt

Please publish this I-D.

Thanks!

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris Apple                     Business Site: AnyWho Directory Services
Internet Directory Group                       http://www.anywho.com
AT&T Laboratories
capple <at> master.control.att.com
+1 908 582 2409                 Tired of slow directories?  Try AnyWho.
------------------------------------------------------------------------


INTERNET-DRAFT                                                  C. Apple
<draft-apple-schema-proc-list-00.txt>                  AT&T Laboratories
Expires: May 6, 1998                                         M. Mealling
                                                 Network Solutions, Inc.
                                                         6 November 1997

                  Directory Schema Listing Procedures
                 <draft-apple-schema-proc-list-00.txt>

Status of this Memo

   This document is an Internet-Draft. Internet-Drafts are working
   documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas,
   and its working groups. Note that other groups may also distribute
   working documents as Internet-Drafts.

   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
(Continue reading)

Internet-Drafts | 7 Nov 15:39 1997
Picon

I-D ACTION:draft-apple-schema-proc-list-00.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Applications Area Directorate Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Directory Schema Listing Procedures
	Author(s)	: M. Mealling, C. Apple
	Filename	: draft-apple-schema-proc-list-00.txt
	Pages		: 14
	Date		: 06-Nov-97
	
   This memo documents procedures for listing directory service schemas
   in a centrally operated, administered, and maintained repository.
   This repository will be available as a resource to directory protocol
   and service implementors to facilitate schema discovery.

Internet-Drafts are available by anonymous FTP.  Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address.  After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-apple-schema-proc-list-00.txt".
A URL for the Internet-Draft is:
ftp://ds.internic.net/internet-drafts/draft-apple-schema-proc-list-00.txt

Internet-Drafts directories are located at:

	Africa:	ftp.is.co.za
	
	Europe: ftp.nordu.net
		ftp.nis.garr.it
			
	Pacific Rim: munnari.oz.au
	
(Continue reading)


Gmane