Jacob Palme | 2 May 19:31 2001
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Is 8BIT ESTMP really needed

I have an impression that it has become de-facto standard in
e-mail today, that you send 8BIT characters without negotiating
an 8BIT connection according to RFC 1652?

Is this right?
--

-- 
Jacob Palme <jpalme <at> dsv.su.se> (Stockholm University and KTH)
for more info see URL: http://www.dsv.su.se/jpalme/

Keith Moore | 2 May 23:07 2001
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Re: Is 8BIT ESTMP really needed

my impression is that the de facto standard is to advertise 8bit 
capability.

Keith

> I have an impression that it has become de-facto standard in
> e-mail today, that you send 8BIT characters without negotiating
> an 8BIT connection according to RFC 1652?

Philip Hazel | 3 May 11:06 2001
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Re: Is 8BIT ESTMP really needed

On Wed, 2 May 2001, Jacob Palme wrote:

> I have an impression that it has become de-facto standard in
> e-mail today, that you send 8BIT characters without negotiating
> an 8BIT connection according to RFC 1652?
>
> Is this right?

On Wed, 2 May 2001, Keith Moore wrote:

> my impression is that the de facto standard is to advertise 8bit
> capability.

My impression is that *both* are the de-facto standard. The first
applies to clients; the second applies to servers.

--

-- 
Philip Hazel            University of Cambridge Computing Service,
ph10 <at> cus.cam.ac.uk      Cambridge, England. Phone: +44 1223 334714.

Keith Moore | 3 May 19:15 2001
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Re: Is 8BIT ESTMP really needed

> I haven't seen any evidence in any RFC or STD saying that blindly (i.e. no
> negotiation) sending raw 8bit data to an MTA is any sort of standard.

nor have I.  the question was about de facto standards, not official standards.

Keith

Dave Crocker | 3 May 19:11 2001

pop in, imap out?

This is sufficiently bizarre, I need to broadcast the query...

When trying to access a user's set of mailboxes from multiple machines -- 
eg, laptop and desktop -- just using operating system file sharing can be a 
performance problem.

So I am looking for some software that will use POP to pull down my mail 
from various network accounts, and then will make the mail available via 
IMAP.

That is, the "client" side of the server will go out and get new mail and 
incorporate it into its storage environment.  The server side of the server 
will allow other clients to access the store via IMAP.

Does anyone know of such a WIN2K server?

d/

----------
Dave Crocker   <mailto:dcrocker <at> brandenburg.com>
Brandenburg InternetWorking   <http://www.brandenburg.com>
tel: +1.408.246.8253;   fax: +1.408.273.6464

Lee Thompson | 3 May 18:51 2001

Re: Is 8BIT ESTMP really needed

On Thu, 3 May 2001 10:06:54 +0100 (BST), you wrote:

> On Wed, 2 May 2001, Jacob Palme wrote:
> 
> > I have an impression that it has become de-facto standard in
> > e-mail today, that you send 8BIT characters without negotiating
> > an 8BIT connection according to RFC 1652?
> >
> > Is this right?
> 
> 
> On Wed, 2 May 2001, Keith Moore wrote:
> 
> > my impression is that the de facto standard is to advertise 8bit
> > capability.
> 
> 
> My impression is that *both* are the de-facto standard. The first
> applies to clients; the second applies to servers.

I haven't seen any evidence in any RFC or STD saying that blindly (i.e. no
negotiation) sending raw 8bit data to an MTA is any sort of standard.

--

-- 
Lee Thompson               Software Engineer
lt <at> seattlelab.com          Voice 425 825-7000  Seattle Lab, Inc.
http://www.seattlelab.com  Fax 425 825-7001    a BVRP Group Company                                               

ned.freed | 3 May 20:28 2001

Re: pop in, imap out?

> This is sufficiently bizarre, I need to broadcast the query...

> When trying to access a user's set of mailboxes from multiple machines --
> eg, laptop and desktop -- just using operating system file sharing can be a
> performance problem.

> So I am looking for some software that will use POP to pull down my mail
> from various network accounts, and then will make the mail available via
> IMAP.

> That is, the "client" side of the server will go out and get new mail and
> incorporate it into its storage environment.  The server side of the server
> will allow other clients to access the store via IMAP.

> Does anyone know of such a WIN2K server?

Fetchmail does stuff like this. It is pretty portable, but I don't know
if it is built for WIN2K or not. However, you can run fetchmail on one
system and have it pull mail from another and send it to a third, so
platform isn't particularly relevant.

				Ned

Lee Thompson | 3 May 20:53 2001

Re: Is 8BIT ESTMP really needed

On Thu, 03 May 2001 13:15:10 -0400, you wrote:

> > I haven't seen any evidence in any RFC or STD saying that blindly (i.e. no
> > negotiation) sending raw 8bit data to an MTA is any sort of standard.
> 
> nor have I.  the question was about de facto standards, not official standards.
> 

Well I've seen what I consider broken clients and MTAs that DO this.  But I've
seen a lot of broken stuff out there :/

--

-- 
Lee Thompson               Software Engineer
lt <at> seattlelab.com          Voice 425 825-7000  Seattle Lab, Inc.
http://www.seattlelab.com  Fax 425 825-7001    a BVRP Group Company                                               

Keith Moore | 3 May 21:03 2001
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Re: Is 8BIT ESTMP really needed

technically speaking, SMTP clients that send 8bit messages without 
seeing the proper 8BITMIME EHLO response from the server are in 
violation of the standards.

practically speaking

a) most mailers these days are at least tolerant of 8bit content
   in the message body
b) most mailers these days advertise 8BITMIME anyway.

so it doesn't much matter.

Keith

Al Costanzo | 4 May 00:56 2001

Re: pop in, imap out?

Why go though all this trouble?

Forward all you PoP email accounts to one account and then either read them
from there or read them via webmail.

Not sure why this would be an issue at all.

-al

----- Original Message -----
From: <ned.freed <at> mrochek.com>
To: "Dave Crocker" <dcrocker <at> brandenburg.com>
Cc: <ietf-822 <at> imc.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 03, 2001 2:28 PM
Subject: Re: pop in, imap out?

> > This is sufficiently bizarre, I need to broadcast the query...
>
> > When trying to access a user's set of mailboxes from multiple
machines --
> > eg, laptop and desktop -- just using operating system file sharing can
be a
> > performance problem.
>
> > So I am looking for some software that will use POP to pull down my mail
> > from various network accounts, and then will make the mail available via
> > IMAP.
>
> > That is, the "client" side of the server will go out and get new mail
and
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