RE: New Liaison Statement, "Response to PWE3 and MPLS WG concerns with G.8110.1 Amendment 1"

Neil, 

Yes, I quite agree that there can be client-server relationships (either
way).

What I want is a clear statement that there can be no peer relationship.

Sasha's comment on separate Ethertypes is, of course, a good solution,
but we need to state the requirement first and then give this as one
possible solution.
BTW, we have requested this several times already.

BTW

-----Original Message-----
From: neil.2.harrison <at> bt.com [mailto:neil.2.harrison <at> bt.com] 
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 09:27
To: Yaakov Stein
Cc: stbryant <at> cisco.com
Subject: RE: [PWE3] New Liaison Statement,"Response to PWE3 and MPLS WG
concerns with G.8110.1 Amendment 1"

Hi Yaakov,

Good point...a key corollary of which IMO is that T-MPLS cannot be
claimed to be a sub-set of MPLS.....so one could call T-MPLS anything
one likes now....indeed, perhaps IETF should request this of ITU to
avoid any confusion?

However, whilst I accept there should be no attempt at interworking MPLS

RE: [mpls] RE: New Liaison Statement, "Response to PWE3 and MPLS WG concerns with G.8110.1 Amendment 1"

Phil, 

There are several types of interworking.

"Nework interworking" or "client-server" interworking means carrying one
network layer over another. See all the ITU Y.14xx Recommendations for
further explanations.

"Service interworking" or "peer to peer interworking" means passing the
payload information
between two different network technologies.

The documents being presented claim that T-MPLS is a different network
technology
from IETF-defined MPLS (or what they call IP-MPLS). Different needn't
mean incompatible
formats, it is enough for one to be a strict subset of the other (e.g
disallow certain
features). In this case interworking (of one type or the other) needs to
be defined.
Those proposing T-MPLS are claiming that interworking need not be
defined
as they assume that there are no use cases for this. (I disagree)

Y(J)S

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Bedard [mailto:bedard.phil <at> gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 22:21
To: Sasha Vainshtein

RE: [mpls] RE: New Liaison Statement, "Response to PWE3 and MPLS WG concerns with G.8110.1 Amendment 1"

Yaakov, Phil, Stewart et al,

In the Scope section of the previously approved G.8110.1 (T-MPLS
architecture), it was stated:
"Further a T-MPLS network will not peer directly with an IP/MPLS
network".
(I think this implies that T-MPLS does not support service interworking
with IP/MPLS)

At the last Q12/15 meeting, they modified the above sentence in the
Scope section as follows:
"Further a T-MPLS network will have a client/server relationship with an
IP/MPLS network".
(I think this implies that T-MPLS may support network interworking with
IP/MPLS, although I am not sure about what "will" means in the context
of Rec)

Those proposing T-MPLS proposed "IP/MPLS and T-MPLS Interoperability" at
the last meeting and following is the meeting report FYI:
"Contribution C595, (Alcatel-Lucent), "IP/MPLS and T-MPLS
Interoperability" raised some concerns.  It was noted that we have
agreed that we do not expect IP/MPLS and T-MPLS to directly
interoperate.  It was clarified that the contributions addresses use of
a Pseudowire that spans a MPLS and a T-MPLS network.  I was noted that
Q7/13 has responsibility for PW interworking.  It was suggested that the
intent was that the T-MPLS network would encapsulate the MPLS PW.
Further clarification of the network application is required before any
action can be taken."

It seems like the intent was the network interworking, but then Q7/13

I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-pwe3-segmented-pw-05.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire Emulation Edge to Edge Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Segmented Pseudo Wire
	Author(s)	: L. Martini, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-pwe3-segmented-pw-05.txt
	Pages		: 38
	Date		: 2007-7-3
	
This document describes how to connect pseudo wires (PW) between two
   distinct PW control planes or PSN domains. The PW control planes may
   belong to independent autonomous systems, or the PSN technology is
   heterogeneous, or a PW might need to be aggregated at a specific PSN
   point. The PW packet data units are simply switched from one PW to
   another without changing the PW payload.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-segmented-pw-05.txt

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I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-pwe3-dynamic-ms-pw-04.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire Emulation Edge to Edge Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Dynamic Placement of Multi Segment Pseudo Wires
	Author(s)	: F. Balus, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-pwe3-dynamic-ms-pw-04.txt
	Pages		: 21
	Date		: 2007-7-3
	
There is a requirement for service providers to be able to extend the
   reach of pseudo wires (PW) across multiple Packet Switched Network
   domains. A Multi-Segment PW is defined as a set of two or more
   contiguous PW segments that behave and function as a single point-
   to-point PW. This document describes extensions to the PW control
   protocol to dynamically place the segments of the multi segment
   pseudo wire among a set of Provider Edge (PE) routers.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-dynamic-ms-pw-04.txt

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I-D Action:draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-14.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire Emulation Edge to Edge Working Group of the IETF.

                                                                                           
        Title           : Pseudowire Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) A Control Channel for Pseudowires
        Author(s)       : T. Nadeau, C. Pignataro
        Filename        : draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-14.txt
        Pages           : 30
        Date            : 2007-07-05

This document describes Virtual Circuit Connection Verification
(VCCV) which provides a control channel that is associated with a
Pseudowire (PW), as well as the corresponding operations and
management functions such as connectivity verification to be used
over that control channel.  VCCV applies to all supported access
circuit and transport types currently defined for PWs.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-14.txt

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I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-pwe3-dynamic-ms-pw-05.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire Emulation Edge to Edge Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Dynamic Placement of Multi Segment Pseudo 
                          Wires
	Author(s)	: F. Balus, et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-pwe3-dynamic-ms-pw-05.txt
	Pages		: 21
	Date		: 2007-7-5
	
There is a requirement for service providers to be able to extend the
   reach of pseudo wires (PW) across multiple Packet Switched Network
   domains. A Multi-Segment PW is defined as a set of two or more
   contiguous PW segments that behave and function as a single point-
   to-point PW. This document describes extensions to the PW control
   protocol to dynamically place the segments of the multi segment
   pseudo wire among a set of Provider Edge (PE) routers.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-dynamic-ms-pw-05.txt

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I have two question about the Generalized PWid FEC Element in RFC4762 。

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I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-pwe3-tdm-control-protocol-extensi-03.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Pseudowire Emulation Edge to Edge Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Control Protocol Extensions for Setup of TDM Pseudowires
	Author(s)	: S. Vainshtein, Y. Stein
	Filename	: draft-ietf-pwe3-tdm-control-protocol-extensi-03.txt
	Pages		: 12
	Date		: 2007-7-8
	
This document defines extension to the PWE3 control protocol [RFC4447] 
 and PWE3 IANA allocations [RFC4446] required for setup of  
 TDM pseudo wires.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-tdm-control-protocol-extensi-03.txt

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Draft Chicago agenda

All,

Here is the draft agenda for the PWE3 meeting in Chicago.

Please let me know if I have missed anything or if you have any other
comments or corrections.

Regards,

Matthew

MONDAY, July 23rd, 2007 - 13:00 - 15:00
-----------------------------------
CHAIRS: Danny McPherson & Stewart Bryant

15 mins WG Status and Update - Chairs

5 mins - Pseudowire Virtual Circuit Connectivity Verification (VCCV) A
Control
Channel for Pseudowires - Tom Nadeau (tnadeau <at> cisco.com)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-vccv-14.txt

5 mins - MS-PW Requirements - Luca Martini (lmartini <at> cisco.com)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-ms-pw-requirements-05.txt

5 mins - Dynamic Placement of Multi Segment Pseudo Wires - Luca Martini
(lmartini <at> cisco.com)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-dynamic-ms-pw-05.txt

10 mins - Preferential Forwarding Status Bit Definition - Mustapha Aissaoui
(mustapha.aissaoui <at> alcatel-lucent.co.uk)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-muley-dutta-pwe3-redundancy-bit-00.txt

15 mins - T-MPLS Report - Stewart Bryant (stbryant <at> cisco.com)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-pwe3-mpls-transport-00.txt
https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/345/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/liaison/344/

15 mins - PTP over MPLS - Roh Cohen (ronc <at> resolutenetworks.com)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ronc-ptp-mpls-00.txt

15 mins - 802.1ah Pseudowire - Luca Martini (lmartini <at> cisco.com)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-martini-pwe3-802.1ah-pw-00.txt

15 mins - Setup and Manage PBB-based Tunnels with PWE3 Mechanism - Ping Pan
(ppan <at> hammerheadsystems.com)
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-pan-pwe3-pbb-tunnels-00.txt

----------------------------------------
Matthew Bocci
IP Division,
Alcatel-Lucent Telecom Limited, Registered Office: Christchurch Way,
Greenwich, London SE10 0AG.
Registered in England & Wales number 02650571
-----------------------------------------