Charles Lindsey | 5 Nov 2007 12:12
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[NNTP] Re: Updated news-nntp-uri I-D

In <fg9ngk$1q3$1 <at> ger.gmane.org> "Frank Ellermann" <nobody <at> xyzzy.claranet.de> writes:

>Hi, I've posted an updated news-nntp-uri I-D, and will
>fix a new ltr-bug "local part (right hand side)" later:
>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ellermann-news-nntp-uri

>Counting all attempts to update the news URI scheme in
>RFC 1738 that's number 16, and I guess it's now at a
>point where further modifications would likely make it
>worse.

Russ agreed somewhile back that this document could be discussed on the
nntp mailing list (ietf-nntp <at> lists.eyrie.org) which, now that RFC3977 is
agreed, is still maintained to watch over future nntp developments such as
this. This message is therefore copied to that list, and I shall comment on
the draft there.

--

-- 
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Fax: +44 161 436 6133   Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl
Email: chl <at> clerew.man.ac.uk      Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K.
PGP: 2C15F1A9      Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5

Charles Lindsey | 6 Nov 2007 18:06
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[NNTP] Re: Updated news-nntp-uri I-D

In <Jr15sp.MMo <at> clerew.man.ac.uk> "Charles Lindsey" <chl <at> clerew.man.ac.uk> writes:

>In <fg9ngk$1q3$1 <at> ger.gmane.org> "Frank Ellermann" <nobody <at> xyzzy.claranet.de> writes:

>>Hi, I've posted an updated news-nntp-uri I-D, and will
>>fix a new ltr-bug "local part (right hand side)" later:
>>http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ellermann-news-nntp-uri

>>Counting all attempts to update the news URI scheme in
>>RFC 1738 that's number 16, and I guess it's now at a
>>point where further modifications would likely make it
>>worse.

>Russ agreed somewhile back that this document could be discussed on the
>nntp mailing list (ietf-nntp <at> lists.eyrie.org) which, now that RFC3977 is
>agreed, is still maintained to watch over future nntp developments such as
>this. This message is therefore copied to that list, and I shall comment on
>the draft there.

OK, so my comments follow. They are mostly wording niggles, but there are
some serious issues also.

>                    The 'news' and 'nntp' URI Schemes
>                     draft-ellermann-news-nntp-uri-06

> 2.  Background

>    User agents like Web browsers supporting these schemes use the NNTP
>    protocol to access the corresponding resources.  The details how they
                                                                 ^
(Continue reading)

Taylor Lindsey | 15 Nov 2007 03:04
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[NNTP] If You Hate Money Don't Read This


Hello!I've got some awesome news that I think you need to take twominutes to read if you have ever thought
"How could I make someserious cash in a hurry???" , or been in serious debt,  ready to doalmost anything to
get the money needed to pay off those billcollectors. So grab a snack, a warm cup of coffee, or a glass of
yourfavorite beverage, get comfortable and listen to this interesting,exciting find!   Let me start by
saying that I FINALLY FOUND IT! That's right!. Ifound it! And I HATE GET RICH QUICK SCHEMES!! I hate those
schemeslike multi-level marketing, mail-order schemes, envelope stuffingscams, 900 number scams...
the list goes on forever. I have triedevery darn get rich quick scheme out there. I somehow got onmailing
lists for people looking to make money (morelike 'desperate stupid people who will try anything for
money!'). Follow 
the instructions below and YOU will have the same success as I did.

 
*** THE LIST OF NAMES IS AT THE END OF THIS ARTICLE. ***OK,  Read this carefully.  Get a printout of this
information, if youlike, so you can easily refer to it as often as needed.INSTRUCTIONS:1.  Take a sheet of
paper and write on it the following:"Please add my name to your list".  This creates a service out of
thismoney making system and thus making it completely legal. You are notjust randomly sending a dollar to
someone, you are paying one dollarfor a legitimate service.  Make sure  you include your name andaddress.  I
assure you that,  again,  this is completely legal!  For aneat little twist, also write what slot their name
was in: "You werein slot 3",  Just to add a little fun!  This is all about having funand making money at the same
time!2.  Now fold this sheet of paper around a dollar bill ,(no checks ormoney orders), and put them into an
envelope and send it on its way tothe five people listed.  The folding of the paper around the bill
willinsure its arrival to its recipient. THIS STEP IS IMPORTANT!!3.  Now listen carefully, here's where
you get YOUR MONEY COMING TOYOUR MAILBOX.   Look at the list of five people;  remove the firstname from
position one and move everyone on the list up slot one onthe list.  Position 2 name will now move to the
position 1 slot ,position 3 will now become position 2, 4 will be be 3, 5 wil be 4.Now put your name, address,
zipcode AND COUNTRY in position 5, thebottom position on the list.4.  Now upload this updated file to as
many newsgroups and localbulletin boards' message areas & file section as possible.  Give acatchy
description of the file so it gets noticed!!  Such as:"NEED FAST CASH?, HERE IT IS!" or "NEED CASH TO PAY
OFFYOUR DEBTS??",  etc.  And the more uploads, the more money you willmake, and of course, the more money the
(Continue reading)

Russ Allbery | 15 Nov 2007 03:35
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Re: [NNTP] If You Hate Money Don't Read This

I've unsubscribed this poster from the mailing list and banned the address
from subscribing again, for whatever good it will do.

--

-- 
Russ Allbery (rra <at> stanford.edu)             <http://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>

Charles Lindsey | 16 Nov 2007 18:59
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[NNTP] Re: Updated news-nntp-uri I-D

In <Jr3GvF.L1x <at> clerew.man.ac.uk> "Charles Lindsey" <chl <at> clerew.man.ac.uk> writes:

>>Russ agreed somewhile back that this document could be discussed on the
>>nntp mailing list (ietf-nntp <at> lists.eyrie.org) which, now that RFC3977 is
>>agreed, is still maintained to watch over future nntp developments such as
>>this. This message is therefore copied to that list, and I shall comment on
>>the draft there.

>OK, so my comments follow. They are mostly wording niggles, but there are
>some serious issues also.

>>                    The 'news' and 'nntp' URI Schemes
>>                     draft-ellermann-news-nntp-uri-06

Frank has now published draft-ellermann-news-nntp-uri-08 in response to my
comments (pity he did not come on here first to discuss them). Largely, he
has accepted all my cosmetic suggestions, but totally ignored my technical
ones. Here follows his latest "Document History" section, and I shall
comment on that.

Appendix C.  Document History

   Changes in version 08:

   o  Many editorial and stylistic improvements proposed by Charles
      Lindsey adopted wholesale.

Fine!

   o  Adopted Charles' proposal to simplify the acknowledgements.  It is
(Continue reading)

Clive D.W. Feather | 26 Nov 2007 17:59

Re: [NNTP] Re: Updated news-nntp-uri I-D

Charles Lindsey said:
>> 4.  Syntax of 'news' URIs
[...]
> No! Please do not attempt to write (yet another) full syntax for msg-ids
> here. We have already done that once in [USEFOR] (ugly but necessary).
[...]

In any case, there is a further problem that RFC 3977 is much more generous
in what it allows:

    message-id = "<" 1*248A-NOTGT ">"
    A-NOTGT    = %x21-3D / %x3F-7E  ; exclude ">"

I can see that this leads to an ambiguity when there is no at sign in the
message-ID. Therefore I suggest:

    article  = 1*mid-char " <at> " 1*mid-char
    mid-char = unreserved / pct-encoded / sub-delims / " <at> " / "/"
    unreserved  = <defined in RFC 3986 section 2.3>
    pct-encoded = <defined in RFC 3986 section 2.2>
    sub-delims  = <defined in RFC 3986 section 2.1>

>>    The form identifying <newsgroups> corresponds to the [RFC3977]
>>    <wildmat-pattern>, a newsgroup name with wildcards "*" and "?".  Any
>>    "?" has to be be percent-encoded as "%3F" in this part of an URI.
>>    Examples, the first two are equivalent:
> 
> I disagree entirely with your use of <wildmat-pattern> here, when
> <wildmat> would do perfectly well.
[...]
(Continue reading)

Charles Lindsey | 27 Nov 2007 16:10
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Re: [NNTP] Re: Updated news-nntp-uri I-D

In <20071126165906.GI19446 <at> finch-staff-1.thus.net> "Clive D.W. Feather" <clive <at> demon.net> writes:

>Charles Lindsey said:
>>> 4.  Syntax of 'news' URIs
>[...]
>> No! Please do not attempt to write (yet another) full syntax for msg-ids
>> here. We have already done that once in [USEFOR] (ugly but necessary).
>[...]

>In any case, there is a further problem that RFC 3977 is much more generous
>in what it allows:

>    message-id = "<" 1*248A-NOTGT ">"
>    A-NOTGT    = %x21-3D / %x3F-7E  ; exclude ">"

OK, we have essentially two possibilities:
1. restrict it to the USEFORE msgid syntax
2. allow the wider RFC 3977 syntax

The point I was making was that if we went for #1, as Franks draft
proposes, then we should use the syntax given in USEFOR normatively,
rather than inventing yet-another-version-of-it.

But #2 is also a reasonable possibility, though it needs the ' <at> ' to be
specified, as you say, and one would need to watch the syntax of URLs, and
to use %-encoding where needed. In that case, you suggested syntax looks
reasonable.

As to whether we should do #2, people should express opinions. I think I
marginally prefer to remain with #1 (since it is the news: URL where this
(Continue reading)

Clive D.W. Feather | 28 Nov 2007 11:59

Re: [NNTP] Re: Updated news-nntp-uri I-D

Charles Lindsey said:
>> In any case, there is a further problem that RFC 3977 is much more generous
>> in what it allows:
> 
>>     message-id = "<" 1*248A-NOTGT ">"
>>     A-NOTGT    = %x21-3D / %x3F-7E  ; exclude ">"
> 
> OK, we have essentially two possibilities:
> 1. restrict it to the USEFORE msgid syntax
> 2. allow the wider RFC 3977 syntax
> 
> The point I was making was that if we went for #1, as Franks draft
> proposes, then we should use the syntax given in USEFOR normatively,
> rather than inventing yet-another-version-of-it.

Agreed. But I don't accept #1.

> But #2 is also a reasonable possibility, though it needs the ' <at> ' to be
> specified, as you say, and one would need to watch the syntax of URLs, and
> to use %-encoding where needed.

Of course.

> As to whether we should do #2, people should express opinions. I think I
> marginally prefer to remain with #1 (since it is the news: URL where this
> will be used, rather than the nntp: one).

But this URL contains an NNTP server and a message-ID. As far as possible,
if the server is capable of offering up the message the URL syntax should
allow it. (I'm willing to let the  <at>  sign be the boundary of "possible"
(Continue reading)

Charles Lindsey | 28 Nov 2007 19:12
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Re: [NNTP] Re: Updated news-nntp-uri I-D

In <20071128105926.GJ4770 <at> finch-staff-1.thus.net> "Clive D.W. Feather" <clive <at> demon.net> writes:

>Charles Lindsey said:

>> As to whether we should do #2, people should express opinions. I think I
>> marginally prefer to remain with #1 (since it is the news: URL where this
>> will be used, rather than the nntp: one).

>But this URL contains an NNTP server and a message-ID. As far as possible,
>if the server is capable of offering up the message the URL syntax should
>allow it. (I'm willing to let the  <at>  sign be the boundary of "possible"
>unless someone can suggest a workable syntax).

Yes, the ' <at> ' has to be in the syntax, because it is the only means of
disambiguating the two forms of the URL.

--

-- 
Charles H. Lindsey ---------At Home, doing my own thing------------------------
Tel: +44 161 436 6131 Fax: +44 161 436 6133   Web: http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~chl
Email: chl <at> clerew.man.ac.uk      Snail: 5 Clerewood Ave, CHEADLE, SK8 3JU, U.K.
PGP: 2C15F1A9      Fingerprint: 73 6D C2 51 93 A0 01 E7 65 E8 64 7E 14 A4 AB A5


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