Re: dynamic naming & creation of mailboxes

I got some very good feedback from Jutta Degener, and so quite a bit
has changed (for the better, I hope ;).  comments are very welcome.

Network Working Group                                        K. T. Homme
Document: draft-homme-sieve-variables-00.txt          University of Oslo
Expires July 10, 2003                                        10 Jan 2003

                      Sieve -- Variables Extension

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Re: dynamic naming & creation of mailboxes

> I got some very good feedback from Jutta Degener, and so quite a bit
> has changed (for the better, I hope ;).  comments are very welcome.

Hiya,

5.  Action setdate

<snip>

   These variables SHOULD reference the time when execution of the Sieve
   script reaches the statement.  The local timezone SHOULD be used.

The local timezone is going to be the timezone of the server, which may not
be the "local" timezone for the user.  I would suggest that this be a UTC
time, as then there will only be one time conversion to do, rather than
potentially two.  ie I check my mail from the US East coast, the server is
US West coast.  "localtime" US West coast isn't so useful to me.

Also part of the point of Sieve is that your filter will do the same thing
on any server.  So if you import your script into a different mailbox, that
runs on a server in a different timezone, then you will have to modify the
times in the sieve script.

And then what if you run an ISP with mailservers in several timezones.  If
the script uses the local timezone, then this means that you can't move
users to different timezones without modifying their sieve script.

   a) Should we include more predefined variables to access the time?
   (hour, minutes, timezone, weekday, week number (US, EU og ISO?), name

Re: dynamic naming & creation of mailboxes

[Nigel Swinson]:
>
>   5.  Action setdate
>   
>   <snip>
>   
>      These variables SHOULD reference the time when execution of the
>      Sieve script reaches the statement.  The local timezone SHOULD
>      be used.
>   
>   The local timezone is going to be the timezone of the server,
>   which may not be the "local" timezone for the user.  I would
>   suggest that this be a UTC time, as then there will only be one
>   time conversion to do, rather than potentially two.  ie I check my
>   mail from the US East coast, the server is US West coast.
>   "localtime" US West coast isn't so useful to me.

heh, yeah.  I guess this is different for people in the US and other
large countries which span several timezones.  however, I think it
will be confusing and annoying for users to have their mail archive
switch to a new folder seven hours before midnight.  perhaps allow the
user to specify timezone explicitly?  but then there's the issue of
daylight savings time.  ugh.  AFAIK, there is no IANA registry for
timezone information.  we could use POSIX syntax, but it's pretty
cryptic, e.g., in Central Europe the correct value is
"MET1METDST2,M3.5.0,M10.5.0".  this is OK if your OS supports it, but
I'd hate to write the code myself!

how about adding an optional argument of the form +HHMM or -HHMM, and

Re: dynamic naming & creation of mailboxes

Kjetil Torgrim Homme writes:
> heh, yeah. I guess this is different for people in the US and other 
> large countries which span several timezones.

It's a company thing, not a country thing. I knew people working in 
Dublin whose servers were somewhere on the West Coast. They complained 
about slow connections and so on - timezone seemed a minor issue ;)

> however, I think it will be confusing and annoying for users to have 
> their mail archive switch to a new folder seven hours before 
> midnight. perhaps allow the user to specify timezone explicitly?

Simplicity is better.

Most people leave work in the afternoon and arrive in the morning. The 
folder will have switched sometime during the interval. Does the exact 
time really matter?

The IMAP users in Petrapavlovsk and those of us who regularly work near 
midnight might have a problem, but after the first couple of months, we 
learn. The broken threads caused by the change is a much worse problem.

--Arnt

Re: dynamic naming & creation of mailboxes

[Arnt Gulbrandsen]:
>
>   Kjetil Torgrim Homme writes:
>   > however, I think it will be confusing and annoying for users to
>   > have their mail archive switch to a new folder seven hours
>   > before midnight. perhaps allow the user to specify timezone
>   > explicitly?
>   
>   Simplicity is better.
>   
>   Most people leave work in the afternoon and arrive in the
>   morning. The folder will have switched sometime during the
>   interval. Does the exact time really matter?

and people in New Zealand?  as a user, I would complain loudly about
the broken mail server which didn't even keep a useful time.  when I
ask for ${hour}, I (still as a naive user) would expect it to return
my local time.  never mind that the server has no way of knowing your
local time...  that's why I think the principle of least surprise is
to use the server's timezone.

anyway, SETDATE is tangential to the proposal, and can be left out.

--

-- 
Kjetil T.			|  read and make up your own mind
				|  http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html