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CE Whitehead | 1 Aug 2010 01:19
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Missing subtags 003 and 172


Doug Ewell doug at ewellic.org 
Sat Jul 31 22:02:30 CEST 2010 

> "Phillips, Addison" <addison at lab126 dot com> wrote:
>> I don't believe that those are necessarily the rules. An oversight can 
>> be corrected. The 003 (North America) code appears to me to be an 
>> oversight arising from the fact that it appears in an odd place in the 
>> M.49 code list (but is clearly indicated to be a "continent" there). I 
>> think that such a code, since it is not explicitly forbidden and fits 
>> the intended set for inclusion, can and should be registered via the 
>> normal request process.
> Does the rest of the list feel that way?  I'm wary of subjecting Michael 
> and myself to process appeals and recall petitions.
> I think it's unfortunate that the drafts I edited which ultimately 
> became RFC 4645 and 5645 went through literally years of combined 
> review, during which I implored WG members to read both the prose and 
> the attached registry contents, and nobody ever spotted this apparently 
> crucial "oversight."
> --
> Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org

 
Fine with me­.  On further checking, 003 may be useful in any case for some very generic tagging of some
varieties of Caribbean and North American English 
(see 
http://books.google.com/books?id=Dptsvykgk3IC&pg=PA247&lpg=PA247&dq=English+varieties+North+American+Caribbean+differences+similarities&source=bl&ots=IPyERg8D4G&sig=7fBuXcjJIJsyRUNOvdsr0tELyHA&hl=fr&ei=0J9UTKTHOsP88Aazh7WqDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=English%20varieties%20North%20American%20Caribbean%20differences%20similarities&f=false
which argues for a bit of linguistic bridge between African American varieties of English in the U.S., incl
Gullah, and English spoken in the Caribbean -- although the author argues that one variety developed more
through Creolization and the other by dialect transition and koineization;
(Continue reading)

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Doug Ewell | 1 Aug 2010 05:26
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Re: Missing subtags 003 and 172

I do not object to registering 003 according to Mark's proposal form, as 
long as it is generally agreed by the Reviewer and list membership that 
doing so is within the letter and spirit of RFC 5646.

I do feel that both 003 and 021 should have a brief Comments field to 
describe the difference between them.  Something on the order of 
"Comments: Includes Caribbean and Central America; see also 021" would 
be appropriate.  A big long explanation is not necessary.

I continue to object to 172 on the grounds that that code element is 
classified solely under the economic categories.

--
Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org
RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages  <at>  is dot gd slash 2kf0s ­

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Mark Davis ☕ | 1 Aug 2010 06:03

Re: Missing subtags 003 and 172

I'm glad we're ok on 003. As I said, I'll go back to the CLDR committee about 172.

Mark

— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —


On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 20:26, Doug Ewell <doug <at> ewellic.org> wrote:
I do not object to registering 003 according to Mark's proposal form, as long as it is generally agreed by the Reviewer and list membership that doing so is within the letter and spirit of RFC 5646.

I do feel that both 003 and 021 should have a brief Comments field to describe the difference between them.  Something on the order of "Comments: Includes Caribbean and Central America; see also 021" would be appropriate.  A big long explanation is not necessary.

I continue to object to 172 on the grounds that that code element is classified solely under the economic categories.


--
Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org
RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages <at> is dot gd slash 2kf0s ­

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Doug Ewell | 1 Aug 2010 18:48
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Additions to ISO 15924

The following new code elements have been added to ISO 15924, 
"Information and documentation — Codes for the representation of names 
of scripts" as of 2010-07-18:

Dupl;755;Duployan shorthand, Duployan stenography;sténographie 
Duployé;;2010-07-18
Elba;226;Elbasan;elbasan;;2010-07-18
Sind;318;Sindhi;sindhî;;2010-07-18

Below are proposed records and registration forms to add corresponding 
script subtags to the Registry.

---

LANGUAGE SUBTAG MODIFICATION
File-Date: 2010-08-16
%%
Type: script
Subtag: Dupl
Description: Duployan shorthand
Description: Duployan stenography
Added: 2010-08-16
%%

---

LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM

1. Name of requester: Doug Ewell
2. E-mail address of requester: doug at ewellic.org
3. Record Requested:

   Type: script
   Subtag: Dupl
   Description: Duployan shorthand
   Description: Duployan stenography

4. Intended meaning of the subtag:

5. Reference to published description
   of the language (book or article):

6. Any other relevant information:

   This registration tracks a change made to ISO 15924 effective
   2010-07-18, adding the code element 'Dupl' for "Duployan shorthand;
   Duployan stenography".

---

LANGUAGE SUBTAG MODIFICATION
File-Date: 2010-08-16
%%
Type: script
Subtag: Elba
Description: Elbasan
Added: 2010-08-16
%%

---

LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM

1. Name of requester: Doug Ewell
2. E-mail address of requester: doug at ewellic.org
3. Record Requested:

   Type: script
   Subtag: Elba
   Description: Elbasan

4. Intended meaning of the subtag:

5. Reference to published description
   of the language (book or article):

6. Any other relevant information:

   This registration tracks a change made to ISO 15924 effective
   2010-07-18, adding the code element 'Elba' for Elbasan.

---

LANGUAGE SUBTAG MODIFICATION
File-Date: 2010-08-16
%%
Type: script
Subtag: Sind
Description: Sindhi
Added: 2010-08-16
%%

---

LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM

1. Name of requester: Doug Ewell
2. E-mail address of requester: doug at ewellic.org
3. Record Requested:

   Type: script
   Subtag: Sind
   Description: Sindhi

4. Intended meaning of the subtag:

5. Reference to published description
   of the language (book or article):

6. Any other relevant information:

   This registration tracks a change made to ISO 15924 effective
   2010-07-18, adding the code element 'Sind' for Sindhi.

--
Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org
RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages  <at>  is dot gd slash 2kf0s ­

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Doug Ewell | 1 Aug 2010 19:33
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Comments for 003 and 021

To help explain the difference between "North America" and "Northern 
America" for Language Subtag Registry users, I propose to add the 
following Comments field to Mark's registration form for region subtag 
003:

Comments: Includes Northern America (021), Caribbean (029), and Central
  America (013); see also 021

and add this Comments field for the existing region subtag 021:

Comments: Does not include Caribbean (029) or Central America (013); see
  also 003

--
Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org
RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages  <at>  is dot gd slash 2kf0s ­

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Mark Davis ☕ | 1 Aug 2010 19:35

Re: Comments for 003 and 021

I support those additions.

Thanks,

Mark

— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —


On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 10:33, Doug Ewell <doug <at> ewellic.org> wrote:
To help explain the difference between "North America" and "Northern America" for Language Subtag Registry users, I propose to add the following Comments field to Mark's registration form for region subtag 003:

Comments: Includes Northern America (021), Caribbean (029), and Central
 America (013); see also 021

and add this Comments field for the existing region subtag 021:

Comments: Does not include Caribbean (029) or Central America (013); see
 also 003

--
Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org
RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages <at> is dot gd slash 2kf0s ­

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Doug Ewell | 2 Aug 2010 02:02
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Records and registration forms for 003 and 021

Here are the proposed records and registration forms to add 003 and add 
a comment to 021.  Other than the comment, the registration form for 003 
is unchanged from Mark's post.  These can be submitted to IANA in two 
weeks.  Please review these and send any comments to the list before 
that time.

---

LANGUAGE SUBTAG MODIFICATION
File-Date: 2010-08-16
%%
Type: region
Subtag: 003
Description: North America
Added: 2010-08-16
Comments: Includes Northern America (021), Caribbean (029), and Central
  America (013); see also 021
%%

---

LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM

   1. Name of requester: Mark Davis
   2. E-mail address of requester: markdavis at google.com
   3. Record Requested:

      Type: region
      Subtag: 003
      Description: North America
      Comments: Includes Northern America (021), Caribbean (029), and 
Central
        America (013); see also 021

   4. Intended meaning of the subtag: Defined by UN M.49 code 003
(North America)

   5. Reference to published description
      of the language (book or article): UN M.49, a source standard for 
BCP47

   6. Any other relevant information:

The code 003 code in UN M.49, one of the source standards for BCP47,
was mistakenly omitted when BCP47 was updated. (This is
understandable, because it is in an unexpected location on the UN M.49
site: http://unstats.un.org/unsd/methods/m49/m49regin.htm) It is the
UN code for the continent of North America (the related 021 is not
considered to be a continent), and prominent in use within CLDR, used
by and important to many companies and organizations such as Apple,
Google, IBM, Adobe, Yahoo, and many others.

It is very much like the region 419, in being composed of other regions:

(021,013,029) = 003 North America
(013,029,005) = 419 Latin America and the Caribbean

Cf. BCP47:

       A.  UN numeric codes assigned to 'macro-geographical
(continental)' or sub-regions MUST be registered in the
registry.  These codes are not associated with an assigned
ISO 3166-1 alpha-2 code and represent supra-national areas,
usually covering more than one nation, state, province, or
territory.

---

LANGUAGE SUBTAG MODIFICATION
File-Date: 2010-08-16
%%
Type: region
Subtag: 021
Description: Northern America
Added: 2005-10-16
Comments: Does not include Caribbean (029) or Central America (013); see
  also 003
%%

---

LANGUAGE SUBTAG REGISTRATION FORM

1. Name of requester: Doug Ewell
2. E-mail address of requester: doug at ewellic.org
3. Record Requested:

   Type: region
   Subtag: 021
   Description: Northern America
   Comments: Does not include Caribbean (029) or Central America (013);
     see also 003

4. Intended meaning of the subtag:

5. Reference to published description
   of the language (book or article):

   UN M.49, a source standard for BCP 47.

6. Any other relevant information:

   This registration adds a Comments field to the existing region subtag
   021 for "Northern America," which was included in the original
   Language Subtag Registry in 2005, and whose meaning is unchanged by
   this registration.  Due to the addition of region subtag 003 for the
   similar-sounding name "North America," this comment is intended to
   help users distinguish between the two.  The definitions of "North
   America" and "Northern America" are taken from UN M.49.

--
Doug Ewell | Thornton, Colorado, USA | http://www.ewellic.org
RFC 5645, 4645, UTN #14 | ietf-languages  <at>  is dot gd slash 2kf0s ­

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Mark Davis ☕ | 2 Aug 2010 02:14

Re: Records and registration forms for 003 and 021

Looks good to me, 

thanks Doug,

Mark

— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —


On Sun, Aug 1, 2010 at 17:02, Doug Ewell <doug <at> ewellic.org> wrote:
 This registration adds a Comments field to the existing region subtag

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CE Whitehead | 2 Aug 2010 03:32
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Additions to ISO 15924


Doug Ewell doug at ewellic.org 
Sun Aug 1 18:48:08 CEST 2010 
> The following new code elements have been added to ISO 15924, 
> "Information and documentation — Codes for the representation of names 
> of scripts" as of 2010-07-18:

Sorry to ask a dumb question, but Which system of writing/generic script will be identified with the code
element [sind]?
http://www.omniglot.com/writing/sindhi.htm
The above shows an Arabic script -- the 'Eastern' or extended variety, but with the Western number system.
Sindhi is apparently also written with Devangari script
(see also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sindhi_language#Writing).

 
Best,

C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar <at> hotmail.com
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CE Whitehead | 2 Aug 2010 03:37
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Missing subtags 003 and 172


Yury Tarasievich yury.tarasievich at gmail.com
Sat Jul 31 17:06:42 CEST 2010

> On 07/31/2010 04:41 PM, CE Whitehead wrote:
>> ...
>> O.k., in any case, is it possible that a "Commonwealth of Independent States" variety of Russian might develop?
> Looking from here and now, it'd rather not.
> About the only inter-state standartisation
> actually happening is in the terminology of the
> Russian-language verbatim equivalents of ISO
> (IEC etc.) standards, which are approved as
> inter-state (Rus. межгосударственный) standards.
> And of course, Russian Academy continues to
> maintain the codified literary norm (ru_RU, so
> to speak).
> Hope it helps.
Hi, and thanks for your info, Yuri. It does help. So it seems the Russian Academy will maintain the
terminology standards for the Russian equivalents of ISO standards. So as far as you can see, no unique
varieties will develop in the Commonwealth.
(All the same, it does seem to me that, at some point in the future, should Russian be adopted as a lengua
franca for the Commonwealth of Independent States,
then a 'Commonwealth' variety might develop, at least for spoken Russian. But for now at least nothing . . . I
take your word.)
Best,
C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar <at> hotmail.com 		 	   		  
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