IETF Language tag discussions ()

headers Håvard Hjulstad | 3 Nov 11:43

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Håvard Hjulstad <HHj at standard dot no> wrote:

> The identifiers mo and mol are deprecated
>
> leaving ro and ron/rum the current language identifiers to be used for 
> the variant of the Romanian language also known as Moldavian and 
> Moldovan in English and moldave in French. (The identifier ron is used 
> in the ISO 639-2 T table; the identifier rum in the ISO 639-2 B 
> table.)
>
> The identifiers mo and mol will not be assigned to different items, 
> and recordings using these identifiers will not be invalid.

The registration form and proposed new record to mark 'mo' as Deprecated 
in the LSR will be posted shortly.

Strange that ISO 639-2/RA should choose to deprecate this code element 
less than five months after updating it with a new variant name 
(Moldovan).

--
Doug Ewell  *  Thornton, Colorado, USA  *  RFC 4645  *  UTN #14
http://www.ewellic.org
http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages  ˆ

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Dear All,
I completely agree with Doug's surprise ! 
Moreover, the alpha-2 ISO 639 code element "mo" for the language name "moldavian" was created with the
publication of  ISO 639 (1988), and the alpha-3 ISO 639-2 code element "mol" for the same language name was
created with the publication of ISO 639-2 (1998). 
Between this time, Moldova became an independant state, and the Constitution adopted on 29 july 2004
states that:
"The language of the State of the Republic of Moldova is the moldovan language, written with the Latin script".
How is it possible that this language name, that passed all criteria to be recognized inside ISO 639[-1] and
ISO 639-2 during 20 or 10 years, has now to be deprecated ?
Bien cordialement.
Gérard LANG

-----Message d'origine-----
De : ietf-languages-bounces <at> alvestrand.no [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces <at> alvestrand.no] De la
part de Doug Ewell
Envoyé : lundi 3 novembre 2008 15:32
À : ietf-languages <at> iana.org
Objet : Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

Håvard Hjulstad <HHj at standard dot no> wrote:

> The identifiers mo and mol are deprecated
>
> leaving ro and ron/rum the current language identifiers to be used for 
> the variant of the Romanian language also known as Moldavian and 
> Moldovan in English and moldave in French. (The identifier ron is used 
> in the ISO 639-2 T table; the identifier rum in the ISO 639-2 B
> table.)
>
> The identifiers mo and mol will not be assigned to different items, 
> and recordings using these identifiers will not be invalid.

The registration form and proposed new record to mark 'mo' as Deprecated in the LSR will be posted shortly.

Strange that ISO 639-2/RA should choose to deprecate this code element less than five months after
updating it with a new variant name (Moldovan).

--
Doug Ewell  *  Thornton, Colorado, USA  *  RFC 4645  *  UTN #14 http://www.ewellic.org http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages  ^

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Lang Gérard scripsit:

> How is it possible that this language name, that passed all criteria to
> be recognized inside ISO 639[-1] and ISO 639-2 during 20 or 10 years,
> has now to be deprecated ?

In a word, because political realities have finally caught up to
linguistic ones: the constitution may say "Moldovan language", but the
Moldovan language academy recognizes the facts on the ground, which are
that Moldovan is Romanian.

--

-- 
But that, he realized, was a foolish            John Cowan
thought; as no one knew better than he          cowan <at> ccil.org
that the Wall had no other side.                http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
        --Arthur C. Clarke, "The Wall of Darkness"

Maybe, but this does not explain why "mo" and "mol" have been created and used during this time. In
particular, if "mol" has been created, there must be some terminological or bibliographical entries
(notably at the LC ?) having used this code element ? Because "mol" was created in 1998, after the 1994
Constitution of Moldova.
And if the Moldovan language academy recognization is new, is it between 2008-06-26 (when ISO 639 RA/JAC 
modified "mo" and "mol" by adding a new language name variant) and now ?
Cordialement
Gérard LANG
De : John Cowan [mailto:cowan <at> ccil.org] 
Envoyé : lundi 3 novembre 2008 16:30
À : Lang Gérard
Cc : Doug Ewell; ietf-languages <at> iana.org; havard <at> hjulstad.com
Objet : Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

Lang Gérard scripsit:

> How is it possible that this language name, that passed all criteria 
> to be recognized inside ISO 639[-1] and ISO 639-2 during 20 or 10 
> years, has now to be deprecated ?

In a word, because political realities have finally caught up to linguistic ones: the constitution may say
"Moldovan language", but the Moldovan language academy recognizes the facts on the ground, which are
that Moldovan is Romanian.

--

-- 
But that, he realized, was a foolish            John Cowan
thought; as no one knew better than he          cowan <at> ccil.org
that the Wall had no other side.                http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
        --Arthur C. Clarke, "The Wall of Darkness"

Hi all,

How is the official language of Transnistrian Moldovan Republic to be
identified from now on?
They use Moldovan in Cyrillic script, and both people and authorities
of this de-facto independent territory would definitely object calling
this language "Romanian".

Ihar

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 11:43 AM, Håvard Hjulstad <HHj <at> standard.no> wrote:
> The ISO 639 Registration Authorities' Joint Advisory Committee has decided:
>
>
>
> The identifiers mo and mol are deprecated
>
> leaving ro and ron/rum the current language identifiers to be used for the
> variant of the Romanian language also known as Moldavian and Moldovan in
> English and moldave in French. (The identifier ron is used in the ISO 639-2
> T table; the identifier rum in the ISO 639-2 B table.)
>
>
>
> The identifiers mo and mol will not be assigned to different items, and
> recordings using these identifiers will not be invalid.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Håvard Hjulstad
>
>
>
> --------------------
>
> Håvard Hjulstad
>
>   Standard Norge / Standards Norway
>   Postboks 242, NO-1326 Lysaker
>   besøksadresse / visiting address: Strandveien 18
>
>   tel: (+47) 67838600  |  faks / fax: (+47) 67838601
>
>   direkte tel / direct tel: (+47) 67838645
>
>   hhj <at> standard.no
>
>   http://www.standard.no/
>
> --------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf-languages mailing list
> Ietf-languages <at> alvestrand.no
> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
>
>
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Hi -

> From: "Ihar Mahaniok" <mahaniok <at> gmail.com>
> To: "Håvard Hjulstad" <HHj <at> standard.no>
> Cc: <ietf-languages <at> iana.org>; <iso639-2 <at> loc.gov>; <isojac <at> loc.gov>
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:21 PM
> Subject: Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol
...
> How is the official language of Transnistrian Moldovan Republic to be
> identified from now on?
> They use Moldovan in Cyrillic script, and both people and authorities
> of this de-facto independent territory would definitely object calling
> this language "Romanian".
...

What they call their language is entirely up to them, and is not a
concern for this list.  We only care about the tags used for content
in that language, whatever they choose to call it.

Randy

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sure, I totally understand it. the fact is that the content in this
language is not going to be tagged with this tag, as creators of this
content won't do it.

how was this problem tackled in similar cases?

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 9:38 PM, Randy Presuhn
<randy_presuhn <at> mindspring.com> wrote:
> Hi -
>
>> From: "Ihar Mahaniok" <mahaniok <at> gmail.com>
>> To: "Håvard Hjulstad" <HHj <at> standard.no>
>> Cc: <ietf-languages <at> iana.org>; <iso639-2 <at> loc.gov>; <isojac <at> loc.gov>
>> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 12:21 PM
>> Subject: Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol
> ...
>> How is the official language of Transnistrian Moldovan Republic to be
>> identified from now on?
>> They use Moldovan in Cyrillic script, and both people and authorities
>> of this de-facto independent territory would definitely object calling
>> this language "Romanian".
> ...
>
> What they call their language is entirely up to them, and is not a
> concern for this list.  We only care about the tags used for content
> in that language, whatever they choose to call it.
>
> Randy
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf-languages mailing list
> Ietf-languages <at> alvestrand.no
> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
>
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ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

RE: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

RE: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

Re: ISO 639 JAC decision re mo/mol

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