Doug Ewell | 3 Jun 19:35 2007

Re: ISO 639 decision: arc = Official Aramaic; Imperial Aramaic

Håvard Hjulstad <HHj at standard dot no> wrote:

> There are many languages called "Xyz Aramaic"; see the ISO 639-3 web site: 
> http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/. It was found that "arc" had previously been 
> used practically exclusively for "Official Aramaic", and it was deemed 
> more appropriate to modify the name to reflect that.

Is it agreed, then, that this is a clarifying change and not a functionally 
narrowing change?  I have the LSR registration form all ready to submit if 
it is so agreed.

--
Doug Ewell  *  Fullerton, California, USA  *  RFC 4645  *  UTN #14
http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/
http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
Mark Davis | 3 Jun 22:37 2007

Re: ISO 639 decision: arc = Official Aramaic; Imperial Aramaic

I'm satisfied that this is a clarifying change.

Mark

On 6/3/07, Doug Ewell <dewell <at> roadrunner.com > wrote:
Håvard Hjulstad <HHj at standard dot no> wrote:

> There are many languages called "Xyz Aramaic"; see the ISO 639-3 web site:
> http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/. It was found that "arc" had previously been
> used practically exclusively for "Official Aramaic", and it was deemed
> more appropriate to modify the name to reflect that.

Is it agreed, then, that this is a clarifying change and not a functionally
narrowing change?  I have the LSR registration form all ready to submit if
it is so agreed.

--
Doug Ewell  *  Fullerton, California, USA  *  RFC 4645  *  UTN #14
http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/
http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages

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--
Mark
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Simon Montagu | 5 Jun 19:31 2007

Re: ISO 639 decision: arc = Official Aramaic; Imperial Aramaic

Håvard Hjulstad wrote:
> 
> There are many languages called "Xyz Aramaic"; see the ISO 639-3 web
> site: http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/. It was found that "arc" had
> previously been used practically exclusively for "Official Aramaic",
> and it was deemed more appropriate to modify the name to reflect
> that.

So is there no specific language code for other forms of Aramaic? If I 
have pages that use "arc" for quotations from the Zohar, what should I 
use instead?

I confess I have no clue how many documents survive in Official Aramaic 
or where they can be found tagged with language codes, but today I 
happened across the Aramaic Wikipedia with 412 articles at 
http://arc.wikipedia.org/
John Cowan | 5 Jun 20:23 2007

Re: ISO 639 decision: arc = Official Aramaic; Imperial Aramaic

Simon Montagu scripsit:

> So is there no specific language code for other forms of Aramaic? If I 
> have pages that use "arc" for quotations from the Zohar, what should I 
> use instead?

Until RFC 4646bis becomes effective, you are out of luck: at that time,
the code "tmr", which represents Jewish Babylonian Aramaic, will become
available.  (For that matter, nothing could stop you from using it now,
if this question happens to be actual rather than hypothetical.)

> the Aramaic Wikipedia with 412 articles at 
> http://arc.wikipedia.org/

Ouch.  Well, I have no idea which of the dozen or so modern Aramaic
languages is in use here, but 639-3 code elements for them exist.

--

-- 
John Cowan  cowan <at> ccil.org  http://ccil.org/~cowan
Female celebrity stalker, on a hot morning in Cairo:
"Imagine, Colonel Lawrence, ninety-two already!"
El Auruns's reply:  "Many happy returns of the day!"
Peter Constable | 5 Jun 21:25 2007
Picon

RE: ISO 639 decision: arc = Official Aramaic; Imperial Aramaic

There will be identifiers for all of the different historical stages of Aramaic in ISO 639-3.

Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: ietf-languages-bounces <at> alvestrand.no [mailto:ietf-languages-bounces <at> alvestrand.no] On
Behalf Of John Cowan
Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 11:23 AM
To: Simon Montagu
Cc: ietf-languages <at> iana.org; John Cowan; Håvard Hjulstad; Doug Ewell
Subject: Re: ISO 639 decision: arc = Official Aramaic; Imperial Aramaic

Simon Montagu scripsit:

> So is there no specific language code for other forms of Aramaic? If I
> have pages that use "arc" for quotations from the Zohar, what should I
> use instead?

Until RFC 4646bis becomes effective, you are out of luck: at that time,
the code "tmr", which represents Jewish Babylonian Aramaic, will become
available.  (For that matter, nothing could stop you from using it now,
if this question happens to be actual rather than hypothetical.)

> the Aramaic Wikipedia with 412 articles at
> http://arc.wikipedia.org/

Ouch.  Well, I have no idea which of the dozen or so modern Aramaic
languages is in use here, but 639-3 code elements for them exist.

--
John Cowan  cowan <at> ccil.org  http://ccil.org/~cowan
Female celebrity stalker, on a hot morning in Cairo:
"Imagine, Colonel Lawrence, ninety-two already!"
El Auruns's reply:  "Many happy returns of the day!"
_______________________________________________
Ietf-languages mailing list
Ietf-languages <at> alvestrand.no
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
CE Whitehead | 6 Jun 16:31 2007
Picon

baku1926

Whatever happened to Reshat's request to change the comments field of 
baku1926 ??

The two week review period has passed.

See:

http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages/2007-May/006598.html

>   LANGUAGE SUBTAG MODIFICATION

. . .

>	Comments: Denotes alphabet used in Turkic republics/regions
>of the former USSR in late 1920s, and throughout 1930s, which aspired to
>represent equivalent phonemes in a unified fashion. Also known as: New
>Turkic Alphabet; Birl&#1241;&#351;dirilmi&#351; Jeni Tyrk
>&#1240;lifbas&#1100;; Ja&#331;alif.

See also the link below to another email from Reshat for the proper display 
of the escaped sequences (the utf-8 characters):

http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages/2007-May/006597.html

(Also, from Doug--
http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages/2007-May/006601.html

>Resat is proposing changes to the Comments field for 'baku1926'.  The 
>former does not require any sort of formal review period and decision from 
>the Reviewer; the latter does.

Again, note that the two weeks' review period is passed.)

Thanks.

--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar <at> hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN 
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Doug Ewell | 7 Jun 15:49 2007

Re: baku1926

CE Whitehead <cewcathar at hotmail dot com> wrote:

> Whatever happened to Reshat's request to change the comments field of 
> baku1926 ??
>
> The two week review period has passed.

Here is the "final" proposed record, with all spacing as it would appear in 
the Registry.  Addison proposed that this should be available on-list for a 
week before registering the subtag.

-----
Type: variant
Subtag: baku1926
Description: Unified Turkic Latin Alphabet (Historical)
Added: 2007-04-18
Prefix: az
Prefix: ba
Prefix: crh
Prefix: kk
Prefix: krc
Prefix: ky
Prefix: sah
Prefix: tk
Prefix: tt
Prefix: uz
Comments: Denotes alphabet used in Turkic republics/regions of the
  former USSR in late 1920s, and throughout 1930s, which aspired to
  represent equivalent phonemes in a unified fashion. Also known as: New
  Turkic Alphabet; Birl&#x4D9;&#x15F;dirilmi&#x15F; Jeni Tyrk
  &#x4D8;lifbas&#x44C;; Ja&#x14B;alif.
-----

I don't oppose this modification, since it corrects an error in one of the 
alternative names for the alphabet.

--
Doug Ewell  *  Fullerton, California, USA  *  RFC 4645  *  UTN #14
http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/
http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
Addison Phillips | 7 Jun 16:13 2007
Picon

Re: baku1926

I proposed such a rule for 4646bis. I think it prudent to make the final 
record available for some period of time (allowing actual comments from 
across time zones and respecting holidays and weekends) before we submit 
the record for registration.

Under the current rules, Michael can submit this record at any time 
following the two week period. (He can also reject it.)

Addison

Doug Ewell wrote:
> CE Whitehead <cewcathar at hotmail dot com> wrote:
> 
>> Whatever happened to Reshat's request to change the comments field of 
>> baku1926 ??
>>
>> The two week review period has passed.
> 
> Here is the "final" proposed record, with all spacing as it would appear 
> in the Registry.  Addison proposed that this should be available on-list 
> for a week before registering the subtag.
> 
> -----
> Type: variant
> Subtag: baku1926
> Description: Unified Turkic Latin Alphabet (Historical)
> Added: 2007-04-18
> Prefix: az
> Prefix: ba
> Prefix: crh
> Prefix: kk
> Prefix: krc
> Prefix: ky
> Prefix: sah
> Prefix: tk
> Prefix: tt
> Prefix: uz
> Comments: Denotes alphabet used in Turkic republics/regions of the
>  former USSR in late 1920s, and throughout 1930s, which aspired to
>  represent equivalent phonemes in a unified fashion. Also known as: New
>  Turkic Alphabet; Birl&#x4D9;&#x15F;dirilmi&#x15F; Jeni Tyrk
>  &#x4D8;lifbas&#x44C;; Ja&#x14B;alif.
> -----
> 
> I don't oppose this modification, since it corrects an error in one of 
> the alternative names for the alphabet.
> 
> -- 
> Doug Ewell  *  Fullerton, California, USA  *  RFC 4645  *  UTN #14
> http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/
> http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html
> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ietf-languages mailing list
> Ietf-languages <at> alvestrand.no
> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages

--

-- 
Addison Phillips
Globalization Architect -- Yahoo! Inc.
Chair -- W3C Internationalization Core WG

Internationalization is an architecture.
It is not a feature.
CE Whitehead | 7 Jun 17:24 2007
Picon

Re: baku1926


Addison Phillips addison at yahoo-inc.com
Thu Jun 7 16:13:37 CEST 2007

>I proposed such a rule for 4646bis. I think it prudent to make the final 
>record available for some period of time (allowing actual comments from 
>across time zones and respecting holidays and weekends) before we submit 
>the record for registration.

Sounds fine.

--C. E. Whitehead
cewcathar <at> hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Get a preview of Live Earth, the hottest event this summer - only on MSN 
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han.steenwijk | 9 Jun 06:35 2007
Picon

Variant tags for sl-rozaj: History and preliminaries

Hi,

here is something on the current state of affairs concerning tags for Resian.

1. The attempt to register the language with ISO 639.

A long time ago, in October 2003, I submitted to this list proposals for a
series of subtags to be added to the then freshly approved tag "sl-rozaj".
In the discussion that followed it was deemed more appropriate to first
request a primary language tag from ISO 639-2 to replace "sl-rozaj". I
promptly handed in such a request with ISO 639-2, where it somehow lay
around long enough to make the request obsolete, as ISO 639-3 was coming
into existence. I then contacted the editor of ISO 639-3 in order to
prepare a request to be filed with that authority.

Differently from the ISO 639-2 form, the ISO 639-3 form wants to know
about additional supporters of the request. Therefore I contacted some
Slovene dialectologists of foreign as well as of native descent, asking
for support. In the process the matter came up for discussion at the
Slovene Academy of Arts and Sciences, where fierce opposition to the idea
was vented. Personal and official meetings with members of the Academy
followed, but to no avail. The following (translated) quote from an email
dated May 31st, 2007 sums up the Academic position:

<quote>... We have now come to the conclusion that we cannot agree with
any of the variants of completing the [ISO 639-3] "Request for New
Language Code Element" form, because this is simply not possible. In the
form and the request reference is made to a language (in the title and in
the text), however, we are convinced and insist on the point that Resian
is a dialect of Slovene. This basic conflict cannot be resolved, one can
hide it in the text but the conflict still exists. Therefore, until the
possibility exists to register dialects, we cannot support your request
for an ISO standard for Resian.
...
Bostjan Zeks, president of the Slovene Academy of Arts and Sciences</quote>

Faced with this position I will not further insist on handing in a request
at ISO 639-3 for a primary language tag for Resian. Standards should have
wide support in order to be functional and this wide support is not
guaranteed at the moment. To be sure, I am not completely isolated and
there are fellow scholars who support the request, but consensus is not
within reach.

2. A new attempt to register variant tags for the languages with IANA.

I now intend to submit a series of new proposals for variant tags to be
used with the prefix 'sl-rozaj'. Before drawning you with them, let me
here dwell upon some preliminaries. Basicly, two types of variants are
concerned, one for local dialects (subdialects) and one for standardized
orthography.

a. Local dialects.
Within Resian, four major local dialects exist, to wit the dialects of the
villages of San Giorgio, Gniva, Oseacco and Stolvizza. Alongside these,
minor local dialects should be distinguished in the hamlets of Lipovaz,
Prato, Crisacis, Coritis and Uccea. Some of the latter are mainly of
historical importance, though. This may seem exaggerated, but the
ideodialect of an important contemporary Resian author is not even
included in this enumeration. The terms "major" and "minor" refer to the
number of speakers as well as to the number of isoglosses separating the
dialects.

b. Standardized orthography.
Apart from individual and poorly defined ways of writing Resian during the
past three centuries, a standardized orthography proposal was published in
1994. This proposal aims at constructing a Resian written standard that is
an abstraction from the local dialects while at the same time
standardizing the orthography of the four major dialects. From then on, it
has been used in various publications, mainly those edited by the
association "Rozajanski Dum". Alternative writing systems continue to
exist, though.

This boils down to the following list of variant tags to be proposed, in
order of urgency:

- major dialects
biske
njiva
osojs
solba

- standardized orthography
1994

- minor dialects
lipaw
ravan
kriza
korit
ucars

The abbreviations are based on the Resian names of the villages and
hamlets, in their adjectival form. The list of minor dialects contains two
tags, 'kriza' and 'korit', that did not occur in the original series of
requests from October 2003. With these, all known local dialects are
covered.

Han Steenwijk

--
Prof. Han Steenwijk
Cattedra di Lingua e Letteratura Slovena
Universita' di Padova
Dipartimento di Lingue e Letterature Anglo-Germaniche e Slave
Sezione di Slavistica
Via Beldomandi, 1
I-35139 Padova

tel. 049 8278669
fax. 049 8278679

Gmane