headers
Martin Duerst | 1 Oct 11:53
Picon
Gravatar

Suppress-Script: Japn for language ja (Japanese)

Hello Michael, hello everybody,

This is a request to add "Suppress-Script: Jpan" to the entry for
the language subtag "ja" (Japanese) according to Section 3.5.,
Registration Procedure for Subtags, and based on Section 3.4.,
Stability of IANA Registry Entries, of RFC 4646, which says:

   8.   The field 'Suppress-Script' MAY be added or removed via the
        registration process.

This is the current version of the data for Japanese:

%%
Type: language
Subtag: ja
Description: Japanese
Added: 2005-10-16
%%

This is the proposed new version:

%%
Type: language
Subtag: ja
Description: Japanese
Added: 2005-10-16
Suppress-Script: Jpan
%%

[My understanding is that Added: refers to the original addition of
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 2 comments |
headers
Frank Ellermann | 1 Oct 13:28
Picon
Picon

Re: Suppress-Script: Japn for language ja (Japanese)

Martin Duerst wrote:

> This registration intends to fix this oversight.

Good.  Getting rid of dubious fy-Latn or frr-Latn tags later
if some taggers / tools decided to use it might be possible,
but for ja-Jpan waiting to see what happens is no option.

Frank
Permalink | Reply | 1 comment |
headers
Doug Ewell | 2 Oct 07:43
Picon

Re: Suppress-Script: Japn for language ja (Japanese)

Frank Ellermann <nobody at xyzzy dot claranet dot de> wrote:

>> This registration intends to fix this oversight.
>
> Good.  Getting rid of dubious fy-Latn or frr-Latn tags later
> if some taggers / tools decided to use it might be possible,
> but for ja-Jpan waiting to see what happens is no option.

Frank, if you want to resubmit your proposals to add a Suppress-Script 
for frr and frs and fy, I won't argue against them.  It seems rather 
clear, from a brief amount of research, that these languages are, and 
always have been, overwhelmingly written in the Latin script.

If you want to propose, based on this, that we evaluate each of the 363 
primary language subtags in the current Registry -- or the 7,067 in the 
proposed 4646bis Registry -- that do not currently have a 
Suppress-Script, to see if one should be added, then I would suggest you 
find an organization that is willing to finance such a project.  I'm a 
volunteer and have to fit this work into my spare time.

--
Doug Ewell  *  Fullerton, California, USA  *  RFC 4645  *  UTN #14
http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/
http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
Permalink | Reply | 752 comments |
headers
Frank Ellermann | 2 Oct 08:48
Picon
Picon

Re: Suppress-Script: Japn for language ja (Japanese)

Doug Ewell wrote:

> if you want to resubmit your proposals to add a Suppress-Script
> for frr and frs and fy, I won't argue against them.

The proposal / evidence was about frr.  Adding the other two is
possible, and finding evidence for fy is simple, for frs I'm 
not sure.

> If you want to propose, based on this, that we evaluate each
> of the 363 primary language subtags in the current Registry 
> -- or the 7,067 in the proposed 4646bis Registry -- that do
> not currently have a Suppress-Script, to see if one should be
> added

That wasn't my proposal, it was proposed in the frr rejection:
<http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.ietf.languages/2564> 

> I'm a volunteer and have to fit this work into my spare time.

Same here, and except from "try to use CLDR _again_ as source"
I've no idea how the "more comprehensive job" to identify some
"more comprehensive set of applications" can work.  John has
reduced this list to a smaller set, but at that point we're
stuck.  A registration template generator would be possible,
but somebody needs to fill in the evidence.

Let's see what happens with ja-Jpan before I submit frr again.

Frank
(Continue reading)

Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Martin Duerst | 2 Oct 12:14
Picon
Gravatar

Re: Korean (and Japanese)

At 00:44 06/09/29, Mark Crispin wrote:

>So I assume that means that "karaoke" tagged as ja-Latn would be pronounced (somewhat like
"kah-rah-oh-kay" to an English speaker), whereas "karaoke" tagged as "en" would be pronounced as
"kerry-oh-key"?  :-)

Yes, assuming you have a very elaborate text-to-speach engine.
Not at all sure current products go that far.

Regards,    Martin.

#-#-#  Martin J. Du"rst, Assoc. Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University
#-#-#  http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp       mailto:duerst <at> it.aoyama.ac.jp
Permalink | Reply | 1 comment |
headers
David Clarke | 1 Oct 19:11
Picon
Favicon

Re: Suppress-Script: Japn for language ja (Japanese)

My only comment is that it seems correct, and there is no reason to 
argue against it.

Frank Ellermann wrote:
> Martin Duerst wrote:
>
>   
>> This registration intends to fix this oversight.
>>     
>
> Good.  Getting rid of dubious fy-Latn or frr-Latn tags later
> if some taggers / tools decided to use it might be possible,
> but for ja-Jpan waiting to see what happens is no option.
>
> Frank
>   
---
David Clarke
Modern Language Teaching Centre
University of Sheffield
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Michael Everson | 2 Oct 20:00
Favicon
Gravatar

Re: Suppress-Script: Japn for language ja (Japanese)

I am not interested in entertaining the suppress-script for Frisian 
because it is quite clear that there is no actual need for it. No 
evidence has been shown for a need. The original request was avowedly 
experimental, and was rejected on those grounds. The proposer has 
forgotten about it for months. Why is this being raised here again?

If there is a problem with Suppress-Scripts being missing, the 
correct way to address that is not to ask me and IANA to process 
hundreds or thousands of submissions, but to build the fix into 
4646bis.
--

-- 
Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
Permalink | Reply | 751 comments |
headers
John Cowan | 4 Oct 23:00

Registering RS and ME

Scripsi:

> I understand that it is very likely that ISO 3166/MA will reconsider, 
> and perhaps reverse, its assignment of 'RS' to Serbia.  Therefore
> I urge caution:  festina lente.

That was the result of a misunderstanding on my part.  I now think it
very *unlikely* that RS will be changed, and agree that we should move
on with deprecating CS (without Preferred-Value) and registering RS
and ME (and a fortiori putting them into 4645bis).

--
Even a refrigerator can conform to the XML      John Cowan
Infoset, as long as it has a door sticker       cowan <at> ccil.org
saying "No information items inside".           http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
        --Eve Maler
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
Doug Ewell | 5 Oct 08:38
Picon

Registration forms for CS, ME, RS

Michael,

Please forward the three registration forms referenced below to IANA for 
inclusion in the Language Subtag Registry, updating each of the dates 
"2006-09-27" to "2006-10-05":

Region subtag CS:
http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages/2006-September/005069.html

Region subtag ME:
http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages/2006-September/005045.html

Region subtag RS:
http://www.alvestrand.no/pipermail/ietf-languages/2006-September/005046.html

--
Doug Ewell  *  Fullerton, California, USA  *  RFC 4645  *  UTN #14
http://users.adelphia.net/~dewell/
http://www1.ietf.org/html.charters/ltru-charter.html
http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/ietf-languages
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |
headers
John Cowan | 6 Oct 07:42

OT: Language picking

Well, here's the idea I came up with.  Feel free to pick holes in it.

First, a list of countries to choose from.  This list is long,
but people are used to it, so it shouldn't be a big problem.

Next, a couple of lists to choose one of (using radio buttons, say):
the home languages (English for the U.K., e.g.), the indigenous living
languages, the dead languages, the immigrant languages.  That nails
down the language.

Then some more lists to choose one of; the generic form of the language
(no country code), the form used in the country you picked in the
first place, other countries where the language is used, other countries
where supposedly it isn't used.

So you pick US, find English in the indigenous living languages,
and then you can pick en, en-us, en-* for likely countries, and
then oddities like en-fr, en-dk, etc.

--

-- 
Real FORTRAN programmers can program FORTRAN    John Cowan
in any language.  --Allen Brown                 cowan <at> ccil.org
Permalink | Reply | 0 comments |

Gmane