The ISOC Code of Conduct is the overriding document here.

Folks - let me ask a stupid question here in the IPR-WG...

How is it that the IETF is implementing rules and practices which clearly 
violate the ISOC Code Of Conduct standard? I ask this because one would 
think that this opens the ISOC itself to litigation for allowing this.

Why this is funny is that it appears that the IETF has no legal authority 
nor does the IESG or the IAB or  any other tentacle of the ISOC to violate 
those rules AFAIK creating a direct and easily demonstrated 
chain-of-liability for most of the IPR-WG members too one would think?

Jorge? any legal analysis on this idea?

Todd Glassey. 

IPR WG Rules MAY NOT VIOTALE THE Code of Conduct of the ISOC

Harald -
Since the IETF is not a free-standing entity it seems to me that the IPR-WG 
*** MUST *** implement the ISOC Code of Conduct in its participation rules, 
which means to me that many of the IETF's punitive and its other working 
rules in BCP78 and BCP79 violate these directly.

How this all fits together is that ALL of the IETF's processes must be 
constrained to directly meet the requirements of the ISOC Code of Conduct 
and any that dont open the IESG member's and the IPR member's who enacted 
them to direct litigation as well as their sponsors one would think.

Further, unless the ISOC has granted the IESG the ability to be in violation 
of the ISOC's disclosed Ethical Actions Policy,  the IESG *** cannot *** 
elevate document's to operational that violate those rules either or the 
IESG would be liable there one would think for violating the disclosed 
constraints. Further any protection that the ISOC put in place would be void 
and the ISOC itself would be forced formally to step in and take immediate 
action to avoid litigation against it as well...

So let me ask, will you now inform the WG that it is to embrace all of the 
ISOC's Code of Conduct in all of its operations?

http://www.isoc.org/members/codeconduct.shtml aka the COC.

The reason I ask this is that
------------------------
A) the "No Obligation to Publish" rule violates rule #1 of the COC - period. 
Refusing to allow an Initiative into a WG also violates this and possibly 
Rule #8 as well.

Re: IPR WG Rules MAY NOT VIOTALE THE Code of Conduct of the ISOC

todd glassey wrote:

> it seems to me that the IPR-WG *** MUST *** implement the ISOC
> Code of Conduct in its participation rules

Copy and paste it into a proposed BCP, or maybe only a proposed
ION.  IMHO it is a good text, in no way limited to the IPR WG,
and normally I have a "thing" with any kind of "netiquette".

> many of the IETF's punitive and its other working rules in 
> BCP78 and BCP79 violate these directly.

NAK

> ALL of the IETF's processes must be constrained to directly
> meet the requirements of the ISOC Code of Conduct 

NAK   

That is not the case for all participants, unless you put it 
into a BCP and get consensus for it.

The proposed s/member/participant/g in the next TAO is more 
important.  BTW, you could also propose to paste the text into
a new TAO appendix, that might be more straight forward.

> the ISOC itself would be forced formally to step in and take
> immediate action to avoid litigation against it as well...

NAK.  You are certainly free to share your concerns with them.

I-D Action:draft-ietf-ipr-outbound-rights-06.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Intellectual Property Rights Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Advice to the Trustees of the IETF Trust on Rights to be Granted in IETF Documents
	Author(s)       : J. Halpern
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ipr-outbound-rights-06.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2008-03-19

Contributors grant intellectual property rights to the IETF.  The
IETF Trust holds and manages those rights on behalf of the IETF.  The
Trustees of the IETF Trust are responsible for that management.  This
management includes granting the licenses to copy, implement and
otherwise use IETF contributions, among them Internet-Drafts and
RFCs.  The Trustees of the IETF Trust accepts direction from the IETF
regarding the rights to be granted.  This document describes the
desires of the IETF regarding outbound rights to be granted in IETF
contributions.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipr-outbound-rights-06.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

Last Call: draft-ietf-ipr-outbound-rights (Advice to the Trustees of the IETF Trust on Rights to be Granted in IETF Documents) to Informational RFC

The IESG has received a request from the Intellectual Property Rights WG
(ipr) to consider the following document:

- 'Advice to the Trustees of the IETF Trust on Rights to be Granted in 
   IETF Documents '
   <draft-ietf-ipr-outbound-rights-06.txt> as an Informational RFC

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action.  Please send substantive comments to the
ietf <at> ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-04-02. Exceptionally, 
comments may be sent to iesg <at> ietf.org instead. In either case, please 
retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

The file can be obtained via
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipr-outbound-rights-06.txt

This document is closely related to draft-ietf-ipr-3978-incoming.
The two documents should be considered as a set.  IETF Last Call for
draft-ietf-ipr-3978-incoming will begin as soon as the next update is
posted.

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=14518&rfc_flag=0

I-D Action:draft-ietf-ipr-3978-incoming-08.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Intellectual Property Rights Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Rights Contributors provide to the IETF Trust
	Author(s)       : S. Bradner, J. Contreras
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ipr-3978-incoming-08.txt
	Pages           : 16
	Date            : 2008-03-23

The IETF policies about rights in Contributions to the IETF are
designed to ensure that such Contributions can be made available to
the IETF and Internet communities while permitting the authors to
retain as many rights as possible. This memo details the IETF
policies on rights in Contributions to the IETF. It also describes
the objectives that the policies are designed to meet.  This memo
obsoletes RFC 3978 and 4748 and, with RFC 3979 and RFC xxx (rfc
editor - replace with the RFC # of -outgoing), replaces Section 10 of
RFC 2026.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipr-3978-incoming-08.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

New versions of IPR drafts

Based on a review performed by our Area Director, and some subsequent 
discussion off-list, the editors have posted new versions of the following 
drafts:

draft-ietf-ipr-3978-incoming-08.txt
draft-ietf-ipr-outbound-rights-06.txt

The reviews are enclosed.

We hope that these documents are now Last Call-ready.

                        Harald Alvestrand

Please look for '>' in column one of the attachment.

Russ

> Comments by Russ Housley on 5 Mar 2008.  Look for '>' in column one.

Network Working Group                                        S. Bradner
Internet-Draft                                       Harvard University
Intended status: BCP                                    Jorge Contreras

Re: New versions of IPR drafts

Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:

=============================================
> draft-ietf-ipr-3978-incoming-08.txt

The ipr-3978-incoming-07 review suggests:
| The title page header must include:     
| Obsoletes: 3978 and 4748 (once approved)
| Updates: 2026 (once approved)           

Improved definition of "IETF documents":

: Internet-Drafts that are used in the IETF
: Standards Process as defined in 1(g).

When I submit a draft I don't know if it will
be used "as defined in 1(g)".  I also don't
know how to submit an Internet Draft designed
to be something else (independent or not-for-
RFC) apart from "informational", "historic",
"experimental", BCP, standard.

AFAIK the submit-tool is designed to work only 
under "note well" rules, no exceptions.  

If that's not more necessarily the case what
are xml2rfc + I-D submit tool expected to do,
for the "running code" side of this business ?

The modified 1(f) could mean that IAB + IESG

Re: New versions of IPR drafts

Frank Ellermann skrev:
> Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote:
>
> =============================================
>   
>> draft-ietf-ipr-3978-incoming-08.txt
>>     
>
> The ipr-3978-incoming-07 review suggests:
> | The title page header must include:     
> | Obsoletes: 3978 and 4748 (once approved)
> | Updates: 2026 (once approved)           
>
> Improved definition of "IETF documents":
>
> : Internet-Drafts that are used in the IETF
> : Standards Process as defined in 1(g).
>
> When I submit a draft I don't know if it will
> be used "as defined in 1(g)".  I also don't
> know how to submit an Internet Draft designed
> to be something else (independent or not-for-
> RFC) apart from "informational", "historic",
> "experimental", BCP, standard.
>
> AFAIK the submit-tool is designed to work only 
> under "note well" rules, no exceptions.  
> If that's not more necessarily the case what
> are xml2rfc + I-D submit tool expected to do,
> for the "running code" side of this business ?

Last Call: draft-ietf-ipr-3978-incoming (Rights Contributors provide to the IETF Trust) to BCP

The IESG has received a request from the Intellectual Property Rights WG
(ipr) to consider the following document:

- 'Rights Contributors provide to the IETF Trust '
   <draft-ietf-ipr-3978-incoming-08.txt> as a BCP

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action.  Please send substantive comments to the
ietf <at> ietf.org mailing lists by 2008-04-07. Exceptionally, 
comments may be sent to iesg <at> ietf.org instead. In either case, please 
retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

The file can be obtained via
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipr-3978-incoming-08.txt

This document is closely related to draft-ietf-ipr-outbound-rights,
which is already in Last Call.  The two documents should be considered
as a set.

IESG discussion can be tracked via
https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/pidtracker.cgi?command=view_id&dTag=15855&rfc_flag=0

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