Alexey Melnikov | 1 Sep 2010 11:37
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Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt> (Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email) to Proposed Standard

The IESG wrote:

>The IESG has received a request from the Email Address
>Internationalization WG (eai) to consider the following document:
>- 'Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email'
>  <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt> as a Proposed Standard
>  
>
A minor clarification about IETF process:

Chairs asked me if this document should be Proposed Standard or 
Informational. I decided to initiate the IETF Last Call as if it is 
going to Proposed. The document might end up being Informational based 
on IESG review, but the document status change from Proposed Standard to 
Informational can be done during IESG review and no additional Last Call 
would be needed.
Tony Hansen | 1 Sep 2010 16:39
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Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt> (Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email) to Proposed Standard

I reviewed this document and support it being published.

     Tony Hansen

On 8/31/2010 6:54 PM, The IESG wrote:
> The IESG has received a request from the Email Address
> Internationalization WG (eai) to consider the following document:
> - 'Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email'
>    <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt>  as a Proposed Standard
>
> The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
> final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
> ietf <at> ietf.org mailing lists by 2010-09-14. Exceptionally, comments may be
> sent to iesg <at> ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
> beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
>
> The file can be obtained via
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis/
>
> IESG discussion can be tracked via
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis/
>
>
> No IPR declarations were found that appear related to this I-D.
> _______________________________________________
> IMA mailing list
> IMA <at> ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima
>    
(Continue reading)

Shawn Steele | 1 Sep 2010 21:46
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5336 nit

5336 nit (grammar)

ACE labels as specified in IDNA definitions [RFC5890] is not  
considered as "internationalized".)   
-->
ACE labels as specified in IDNA definitions [RFC5890] are not  
considered to be "internationalized".)   

(are not/to be).  

FWIW: I'm still happy with 5335/5336

- Shawn

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(Continue reading)

Julien ÉLIE | 1 Sep 2010 21:15
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Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt> (Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email) to Proposed Standard

Hi all,

> The IESG has received a request from the Email Address
> Internationalization WG (eai) to consider the following document:
> - 'Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email'
>  <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt> as a Proposed Standard

Thanks for the document, which I find to be very interesting.

Here are a few editorial remarks, as I read it:

* I read in the Abstract, in Section 1 and in Section 15 that
"This document is an update of RFC 4952".  Shouldn't it be better
to say that this document obsoletes RFC 4952?  (especially in the
Abstract)

* I do not fint it easy to read lists of RFC references.  For instance:

   A prior
   version of this specification, RFC 4952 [RFC4952], also provided an
   introduction to a series of experimental protocols [RFC5335]
   [RFC5336] [RFC5337] [RFC5504] [RFC5721] [RFC5738] [RFC5825].

Shouldn't commas be added between these references?

   This document, and others that comprise the collection described
   above, assume a reasonable familiarity with the basic Internet
   electronic mail specifications and terminology [RFC5321][RFC5322] and
   the MIME [RFC2045] and 8BITMIME [RFC1652] ones as well.  While not
   strictly required to implement this specification, a general
(Continue reading)

John C Klensin | 2 Sep 2010 00:57

Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt> (Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email) to Proposed Standard

Hi.

I'm going to reply to parts of this note in different roles, and
have tried to identify them clearly...

--On Wednesday, September 01, 2010 21:15 +0200 Julien ÉLIE
<julien <at> trigofacile.com> wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
>> The IESG has received a request from the Email Address
>> Internationalization WG (eai) to consider the following
>> document: - 'Overview and Framework for Internationalized
>> Email' <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt> as a Proposed
>>  Standard
> 
> Thanks for the document, which I find to be very interesting.

<editor>
First, we've pleaded with the WG and those following this work
to get comments in early and there have been repeated messages
about the schedule.  Comments of this They are much more easily
accommodated if they arrive in a timely fashion, before IETF
Last Call begins.   I mention this, less because of this
document but because the WG Charter claims that three more
documents will be entering this last phase within the month --
please review them and get comments in early.

> Here are a few editorial remarks, as I read it:
> 
(Continue reading)

Jiankang YAO | 2 Sep 2010 04:09
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eai minutes

Dear all,
 
   the eai wg meeting minutes in ietf 78 has been published.
 
  the minutes is attached or you can follow the link  http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/minutes/eai.txt
 
   if you have any comments, pls send it before 10 Sep.
 
 
reminder:
Anyone who raised his hand and committed to review docs
should do so as promised. The following links are the photo graphs showing who had
committed to do so:

Those who committed to review rfc4952bis: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/eai-0.pdf
Those who committed to review rfc5335bis: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/eai-1.pdf
Those who committed to review rfc5336bis: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/eai-2.pdf
thanks a lot.
 
Jiankang Yao
-------------------------------

Email Address Internationalization (EAI) WG Meeting Minutes

Meeting: 
    IETF 78, Friday, 2010-07-30 0900-1130: 0.9 Athens 
Chair: 
    John Klensin 
    Joseph Yee
Minutes: 
    Jiankang Yao

Blue Sheet, Scribe
    scriber: Jiankang Yao

Agenda Bashing
    none

Documents Discussion

RFC4952bis-02:
a) The WG needs more people to review all drafts. 
b) Reference of WG commitment: Volunteers-for-4952bis.pdf
c) The review process aims to be finished by mid August. After that, the draft will send for IETF last call.
d) The new keywords, to replace "UTF8SMTPbis", will be decided during IESG review

RFC5335bis-01:
a) Reference of WG commitment: Volunteers-for-5335bis.pdf
b) The review process aims to be finished by early Sept for IETF last call.
c) The draft needs update on ABNF syntax.
d) Some minor editorial works needed.

RFC5336bis-00:
a) Reference of WG commitment: Volunteers-for-5336bis.pdf
b) The review process aims to be finished by early Sept for IETF last call.
c) The keywords strategy (UTF8SMTPbis) is same to the framework document
d) The draft needs update on ABNF syntax.
e) Some minor editorial works needed.
f) The draft needs update on the ascii <at> non-ascii issue according to the discussion and voting of the
meeting (details below)

EAI-DSN-bis (RFC5337bis):
a) Tony Hansen volunteers to be the editor.
b) The draft aims to be finished before end of Sept.

EAI-IMAP-bis (RFC5738bis):
a) Sean Shen volunteers to be the editor.
b) The draft aims to be finished before end of Sept.

EAI-POP-bis (RFC5721bis):
a) Jiankang Yao and Kazunori Fujiwara volunteer to be the editors.
b) Kazunori Fujiwara is willing to help the separate document of downgrade. 
c) The draft aims to be finished before end of Sept.

draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist-07:
a) Editor(s) to be determined.
b) Aim to start around mid October.

Consensus via humming:

Question 1:  
    Does the legacy server need to reject the ascii <at> non-ascii message? 
Result: 
    Most in the room support that the legacy server needs to reject the ascii <at> non-ascii message. 
    No humming in favor of "no rejection". 
    Rejection of ASCII <at> non-ASCII is really an SMTP (5321) requirement and not within the WG's scope.

Question 2:  
    Wording: the legacy server "SHOULD"  VS "MUST" reject the ascii <at> non-ascii message? 
Result: 
    Most in the room support "MUST".
    No humming in favor of "SHOULD".

reminder:
Anyone who raised his hand and committed to review docs
should do so as promised. The following links are the photo graphs showing who had
committed to do so:

Those who committed to review rfc4952bis: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/eai-0.pdf
Those who committed to review rfc5335bis: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/eai-1.pdf
Those who committed to review rfc5336bis: http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/78/slides/eai-2.pdf

---------------------------------
_______________________________________________
IMA mailing list
IMA <at> ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima
Mao Wei | 2 Sep 2010 04:17
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Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt>(Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email) to Proposed Standard


+1.

It is ready to be published.

>From: Tony Hansen <tony <at> att.com>
>Reply-To: 
>To: The IESG <iesg-secretary <at> ietf.org>
>Subject: Re: [EAI] Last Call: <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt>
(Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email) to Proposed Standard
>Date:Wed, 01 Sep 2010 10:39:20 -0400
>
>I reviewed this document and support it being published.
> 
>      Tony Hansen
> 
> On 8/31/2010 6:54 PM, The IESG wrote:
> > The IESG has received a request from the Email Address
> > Internationalization WG (eai) to consider the following document:
> > - 'Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email'
> >    <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt>  as a Proposed Standard
> >
> > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
> > final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
> > ietf <at> ietf.org mailing lists by 2010-09-14. Exceptionally, comments may be
> > sent to iesg <at> ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
> > beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
> >
> > The file can be obtained via
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis/
> >
> > IESG discussion can be tracked via
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis/
> >
> >
> > No IPR declarations were found that appear related to this I-D.
> > _______________________________________________
> > IMA mailing list
> > IMA <at> ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima
> >    
> _______________________________________________
> IMA mailing list
> IMA <at> ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima
>
Shawn Steele | 2 Sep 2010 21:27
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Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt>(Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email) to Proposed Standard

+4, too.

Though at this point I'm not sure it's our vote that counts?  It looks like "they" have to review and sign off.
-Shawn

===========================
+1.

It is ready to be published.

>From: Tony Hansen <tony <at> att.com>
>Reply-To: 
>To: The IESG <iesg-secretary <at> ietf.org>
>Subject: Re: [EAI] Last Call: <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt>
(Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email) to Proposed Standard
>Date:Wed, 01 Sep 2010 10:39:20 -0400
>
>I reviewed this document and support it being published.
> 
>      Tony Hansen
> 
> On 8/31/2010 6:54 PM, The IESG wrote:
> > The IESG has received a request from the Email Address 
> > Internationalization WG (eai) to consider the following document:
> > - 'Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email'
> >    <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt>  as a Proposed Standard
> >
> > The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and 
> > solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive 
> > comments to the ietf <at> ietf.org mailing lists by 2010-09-14. 
> > Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg <at> ietf.org instead. In 
> > either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.
> >
> > The file can be obtained via
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis/
> >
> > IESG discussion can be tracked via
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis/
> >
> >
> > No IPR declarations were found that appear related to this I-D.
Julien ÉLIE | 2 Sep 2010 21:29
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Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-eai-rfc5335bis-02.txt

Hi all,

> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
>
> Title : Internationalized Email Headers
> Author(s) : A. Yang, S. Steele
> Filename : draft-ietf-eai-rfc5335bis-02.txt

A few remarks:
-- before Last Call :-)

* Abstract
   This document specifies an variant of Internet mail

=> "a variant" I think.

   This specification Updates section 6.4 of [RFC2045]

=> "updates" in lowercase, "Section" in upercase.

* Section 1.1
   This document specifies an variant of Internet mail

=> "a variant" I think.

* Sections 1.2 and 4.2
   blanket ban on applying a content-transfer-encoding to all subtypes
   of message/.

=> I do not find it satisfying to read "message/." at the end of
   a sentence.  I believe it should be quoted.  RFC 2045 uses
   quotes for "message/rfc822".
   Anyway, it is just a remark, and it should be homogenized
   according to the current trend for that.

* Section 1.2
   This document also updates [RFC5322] and MIME ([RFC2045]), and people
   who participate in the experiment have to swich to this document.

=> "switch"?

   Message/global (see
   Section 4.6) permits use of a content-transfer-encoding.

=> I also do not find it satisfying to have an uppercase initial letter
   for "Message/global"!
   I believe quotes and a lowercase letter would be fine at the beginning
   of the sentence.

* Section 2
   text (such as in the Subject: field) to be encoded (as required by

=> Wouldn't "Subject:" with quotes be better?  It is the way it is
   written in RFC 5322.

   change described in the associated document
   [I-D.ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis] and [I-D.yao-eai-rfc5336bis]

=> "documents" in plural?

* Section 3
   Unless otherwise noted, all terms used here are defined in [RFC5321],
   [RFC5322], [I-D.ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis],or [I-D.yao-eai-rfc5336bis].

=> Missing space.

* Section 4.1
                       %xE1-EC 2(UTF8-tail) /
                       %xF4 %x80-8F 2( UTF8-tail )

=> It should be homogenized:  with spaces or without spaces.

* Section 4.3
   FWS     =  <see [RFC5322], folding white space>
   CFWS    =  <see [RFC5322], folding white space>

=> why "folding white space" for both of them, and not "Section 3.2.2"
   or its title?

   timezone in the Date: headers are still expressed in ASCII.  And

=> Same as before.  Quotes for "Date:"?

* Section 4.5
   "For" fields containing internationalized addresses are allowed, by
   use of the new uFor syntax.  UTF-8 information may be needed in
   Received fields.

=> If not "Received:" fields (with a colon), the wording should be
   "Received header fields".

   The "Return-Path" header field provides the email return address in

=> Same thing.

   email address in the "For" field. <angle-addr> is augmented to
   include UTF-8 email address.

=> Missing space (it should be doubled after the final dot).

* Section  4.6
   o  it contains UTF-8 header values as specified in this document, or
   o  it contains UTF-8 values in the headers fields of body parts.

=> Hmm...  Is it clear regarding RFC terminology?
Isn't it "UTF-8 values in header field bodies" for the first and
I-don't-know-how-to-name-it (for "For" if I understand well?)
for the second?

   different properties.  Systems unaware of international headers
   Email clients which forward messages with international headers as

=> "internationalized"?

Regards,

--

-- 
Julien ÉLIE

« Tout est dans tout, et réciproquement. » (Pierre Dac) 
Barry Leiba | 3 Sep 2010 16:46
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Re: Last Call: <draft-ietf-eai-frmwrk-4952bis-07.txt> (Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email) to Proposed Standard

On Wed, Sep 1, 2010 at 10:39 AM, Tony Hansen <tony <at> att.com> wrote:
> I reviewed this document and support it being published.

For the record: so have I, and so do I.

Barry

Gmane