Internet-Drafts | 1 Dec 2009 11:15
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I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF.

	Title           : Displaying Downgraded Messages for Email Address Internationalization
	Author(s)       : K. Fujiwara, B. Leiba
	Filename        : draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt
	Pages           : 15
	Date            : 2009-12-01

This document describes a method for displaying downgraded messages
which originally contained internationalized E-mail addresses or
internationalized header fields.

Status of this Memo

This Internet-Draft is submitted to IETF in full conformance with the
provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79.

Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that
other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-
Drafts.

Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."

The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt.
(Continue reading)

Alexey Melnikov | 2 Dec 2009 13:23
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Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt

Internet-Drafts <at> ietf.org wrote:

>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
>This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization Working Group of the IETF.
>
>
>	Title           : Displaying Downgraded Messages for Email Address Internationalization
>	Author(s)       : K. Fujiwara, B. Leiba
>	Filename        : draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt
>	Pages           : 15
>	Date            : 2009-12-01
>
>This document describes a method for displaying downgraded messages
>which originally contained internationalized E-mail addresses or
>internationalized header fields.
>  
>
Dear WG members,
I would like the WG to sanity check the new version, as this is a major 
rewrite of 2 sections of the document. Please send any comments by the 
end of December 11th.
Shawn Steele | 3 Dec 2009 01:37
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Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt

> Dear WG members,
> I would like the WG to sanity check the new version, as this is a major rewrite of 2 sections of the document.
Please send any > comments by the end of December 11th.

I guess my concern is more procedural or process oriented, however it seems from earlier discussion that
the consensus is that the downgrade as specified by RFC5504 doesn't work in all cases.  So that would seem to
make eai-downgraded-display an historical footnote, and I'm not sure how much effort it is worth
spending on it?  The working group seems to have moved to considering other options.  I'm not sure if
downgraded display is required for the charter?  I'd thought yes, but it doesn't seem to be in the 1.6
Deliverables section?

It also seems that if it is published, that a note of the limitations that have been discovered since RFC5504
was published should be added.  Of course one of the other deliverables is a "Results and evaluation of
experiment", however it might be difficult for people that stumble upon downgraded display to get to that
informational RFC.

I'm not trying to belittle the work involved in getting this far.  I think that the RFC5504 approach was a very
valuable learning experience, and indeed I preferred that approach.  I just think that at this point it's
not worth perfecting that approach if we aren't going to use it, and instead focus our time and
experimentation effort on other possible solutions.

-Shawn
YAO Jiankang | 3 Dec 2009 08:27
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***SPAM*** 14.304 (5) Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shawn Steele" <Shawn.Steele <at> microsoft.com>
To: <ima <at> ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:37 AM
Subject: Re: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt

>> Dear WG members,
>> I would like the WG to sanity check the new version, as this is a major rewrite of 2 sections of the document.
Please send any > comments by the end of December 11th.
> 
> I guess my concern is more procedural or process oriented, however it seems from earlier discussion that
the consensus is that the downgrade as specified by >RFC5504 doesn't work in all cases.  

yes, it is. the test already proves it.

>So that would seem to make eai-downgraded-display an historical footnote, and I'm not sure how much
effort it is worth spending on it?  The working group >seems to have moved to considering other options. 

so we might try to design a simplified downgrade mechanism.

> I'm not sure if downgraded display is required for the charter?  I'd thought yes, but it doesn't seem to be in
the 
>1.6 Deliverables section?

I think that downgraded display  is not proper for the recharter. but I am not sure whether the current
charter allow it.  The co-chairs can decide it.

> 
> It also seems that if it is published, that a note of the limitations that have been discovered since
RFC5504 was published should be added.  Of course one of the >other deliverables is a "Results and
(Continue reading)

YAO Jiankang | 3 Dec 2009 08:33
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***SPAM*** 14.01 (5) Fw: verisign plug in supports the form ASCII <at> IDN in the outlook express

I send it a few days ago, but is regarded as the spam. :)
I just remove the spam filter rule from ima list. :)
 
----- Original Message -----
To: EAI WG
Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:28 AM
Subject: verisign plug in supports the form ASCII <at> IDN in the outlook express

 
 
 
I just get a news from my SGNIC friend that verisign plug in has supported the form  ASCII <at> IDN in the outlook express.
 
 
 
but not sure whether it supports the form of non-ASCII <at> IDN.
 
 
Yao Jiankang
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Sean Shen 沈烁 | 3 Dec 2009 10:06
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Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt

Hi, EAI WG and Authors,
I read the draft and have the a few comments.

#1
Usually the "Abstract" is after "Status of this Memo" and "Copyright
Notice", right before the "Table of Contents". I went back to check previous
versions and found that 01 and 02 is in right order. Wondering why this
modification happened.

#2
section 3.2.2
Proper alignments are needed for procedure description part. Usually no
first line indent is needed for each step. 
In step 1, substeps are numbered as step 1.a and 1.b, without indents. But
in step 4, substeps are numbered as 1, 2, ...7, with indents. The substeps
of step 4 has the same numbering as top level steps.

 
#3
section 3.2.3
I didn't understand the first sentence of this section: 
  "The Unknown Header Fields' Preservation Header Fields SHOULD be left
   as they are unless the MUA has special knowledge of a particular
   field. " 

Also I noticed that "above" and "below" are used in a few places. These are
not necessary when you already clearly refer to the exact sections. 

#4
section 4
The first paragraph describes a scenario that "Downgraded-From" header field
can not be reconstructed. But it's not clear then what will happen. Any
security effects?
The last paragraph refer to "security considerations" in rfc5504 and
rfc4952. But the security considerations in those documents are more about
security issues for downgrading mechenisms. I suppose the security
consideratioins in this document focuses more on downgraded-display. This
should be clarified.

Best,

Sean

> -----邮件原件-----
> 发件人: ima-bounces <at> ietf.org [mailto:ima-bounces <at> ietf.org] 代表
> Internet-Drafts <at> ietf.org
> 发送时间: 2009年12月1日 18:15
> 收件人: i-d-announce <at> ietf.org
> 抄送: ima <at> ietf.org
> 主题: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt
> 
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Email Address Internationalization
Working
> Group of the IETF.
> 
> 
> 	Title           : Displaying Downgraded Messages for Email Address
> Internationalization
> 	Author(s)       : K. Fujiwara, B. Leiba
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt
> 	Pages           : 15
> 	Date            : 2009-12-01
> 
> This document describes a method for displaying downgraded messages which
> originally contained internationalized E-mail addresses or
internationalized
> header fields.
> 
> Status of this Memo
> 
> This Internet-Draft is submitted to IETF in full conformance with the
provisions
> of BCP 78 and BCP 79.
> 
> Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task
Force
> (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that other groups may
also
> distribute working documents as Internet- Drafts.
> 
> Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and
> may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time.  It
is
> inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them
> other than as "work in progress."
> 
> The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
> http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt.
> 
> The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
> http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.
> 
> This Internet-Draft will expire on June 4, 2010.
> 
> Copyright Notice
> 
> Copyright (c) 2009 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the document
> authors.  All rights reserved.
> 
> This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions
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> warranty as described in the BSD License.
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> A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
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YAO Jiankang | 3 Dec 2009 10:22
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***SPAM*** 12.865 (5) Re: EAI WG status and rechartering


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alexey Melnikov" <alexey.melnikov <at> isode.com>
To: <ima <at> ietf.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 21, 2009 2:08 AM
Subject: [EAI] EAI WG status and rechartering

> Greetings,
> 
> Here is what I think remains to be done under the current WG charter:
> 
> 1).
> draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display
> draft-ietf-eai-imap-utf8
> 
> I am awaiting for updated versions of these documents before getting 
> them approved.
> 
> 2). The following document is the last deliverable needed before 
> rechartering (I think):
> 
> draft-ietf-eai-mailinglist
> 
> Currently it is expired. Reissuing the document and sending it to WGLC 
> (if ready), would be nice.
> 
> 

thanks AD for pointing it.

> While I am waiting for the 3 documents, I think the WG can start 
> discussion about whether the group should shut down or recharter. 

I hope that we can recharter. 

The final aim of this WG is to move the documents to standard track.
EAI work is very hard. The co-chairs harald and xiaodong do an excellent job.
We have already survived the most difficult periond under the leading of chairs and key efforts of all WG members.

 
>In 
> case there is consensus to recharter, I would like to see if updated 
> charter text can be agreed on.

It is better if the chairs can provide some initial recharter document.

> 
> If the WG has enough energy to recharter, I would also like to ask the 
> WG to take mailto: URI scheme update (draft-duerst-mailto-bis) as an 
> additional deliverable.

it is good if it can be dilivered before recharter, or this document is done in the WG with the new charter.
Joseph Yee | 3 Dec 2009 13:08

Re: ***SPAM*** 14.01 (5) Fw: verisign plug in supports the form ASCII <at> IDN in the outlook express

I looked into another plugin (for Outlook instead of Outlook Express)  
from Verisign before, they don't support IDN at local-part.

best,
Joseph

On 3-Dec-09, at 2:33 AM, YAO Jiankang wrote:

> I send it a few days ago, but is regarded as the spam. :)
> I just remove the spam filter rule from ima list. :)
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: YAO Jiankang
> To: EAI WG
> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:28 AM
> Subject: verisign plug in supports the form ASCII <at> IDN in the outlook  
> express
>
>
>
>
> I just get a news from my SGNIC friend that verisign plug in has  
> supported the form  ASCII <at> IDN in the outlook express.
>
> http://www.idnnow.com/index.jsp?lang=en
>
>
> but not sure whether it supports the form of non-ASCII <at> IDN.
>
>
> Yao Jiankang
> _______________________________________________
> IMA mailing list
> IMA <at> ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima
Shawn Steele | 3 Dec 2009 21:32
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Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt

>> I guess my concern is more procedural or process oriented, however
>> it seems from earlier discussion that the consensus is that the 
>> downgrade as specified by RFC5504 doesn't work in all cases.  

> yes, it is. the test already proves it.

I believe that there were serious problems maintaining the pairing once you hit things like mailing lists
and mailto:

Alternatives discussed on the list were no downgrade, more partial downgrade, and what full downgrade
would entail.  RFC5504 was an attempt at full downgrade, but it breaks in the edge cases and ends up being
partial downgrade :(

> when can we have a discussion about recharter work?

+1 :)

- Shawn
YAO Jiankang | 4 Dec 2009 02:04
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***SPAM*** 10.627 (5) Re: I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Shawn Steele" <Shawn.Steele <at> microsoft.com>
To: "YAO Jiankang" <yaojk <at> cnnic.cn>; <ima <at> ietf.org>
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 4:32 AM
Subject: Re: [EAI] I-D Action:draft-ietf-eai-downgraded-display-03.txt

>>> I guess my concern is more procedural or process oriented, however
>>> it seems from earlier discussion that the consensus is that the 
>>> downgrade as specified by RFC5504 doesn't work in all cases.  
> 
>> yes, it is. the test already proves it.
> 
> I believe that there were serious problems maintaining the pairing once you hit things like mailing lists
and mailto:

I share the same concern with you about  mailing lists and mailto: when doing the downgrade or carring the alt-address.

> 
> Alternatives discussed on the list were no downgrade, more partial downgrade, and what full downgrade
would entail.  RFC5504 was an attempt at full >downgrade, but it breaks in the edge cases and ends up being
partial downgrade :(

+1

> 
>> when can we have a discussion about recharter work?
> 
> +1 :)
> 
> - Shawn
> 
> _______________________________________________
> IMA mailing list
> IMA <at> ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima

Gmane