IESG Secretary | 21 Feb 19:05 2006
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[IEE] WG Review: Email Address Internationalization (eai)

A new IETF working group has been proposed in the Applications Area.  
The IESG has not made any determination as yet. The following draft charter was
submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your
comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg <at> ietf.org) by March 1st.

+++

Email Address Internationalization (eai)
========================================

Current Status: Proposed Working Group

1.1. Chair(s)
TBD

1.2. Applications Area Director(s)
Ted Hardie <hardie <at> qualcomm.com>
Scott Hollenbeck <shollenbeck <at> verisign.com>

1.3. Applications Area Advisor
To be determined

1.4. Mailing Lists
General Discussion: ima <at> ietf.org
To Subscribe: https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima
Archive: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ima/index.html

1.5. Description of Working Group

Since early in the effort to internationalize domain names, which
(Continue reading)

Martin Duerst | 22 Feb 09:37 2006
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[IEE] RE: WG Review: Email Address Internationalization (eai)

At 06:37 06/02/22, Larry Masinter wrote:
 >Should the group to also consider internationalization
 >of "mailto" URIs,
 >
 >         draft-duerst-mailto-bis-01.txt
 >
 >because "email address internationalization" isn't fully
 >specified without doing so.

Hello Larry,

That's a good question. I asked that question previously, at
http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ima/current/msg00082.html.
You were copied on that mail, but probably not on all of the
followup.

I think the general opinion (most prominently voiced by
John Klensin) on the ima mailing list was that the WG should
review draft-duerst-mailto-bis-01.txt, but not tie it up in
formalities.
(see http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ima/current/msg00087.html).

Did you come to a different conclusion, or are you just asking
to make sure this has been thought about?

Regards,    Martin.
Charles Lindsey | 22 Feb 12:48 2006
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Re: [IEE] WG Review: Email Address Internationalization (eai)

On Tue, 21 Feb 2006 18:05:19 -0000, IESG Secretary  
<iesg-secretary <at> ietf.org> wrote:

> Email Address Internationalization (eai)
> ========================================
>
> Current Status: Proposed Working Group
>

> 1.5. Description of Working Group

> This working group will address one basic approach to email
> internationalization. That approach is based on the use of an SMTP
> extension to enable both the use of UTF-8 in envelope address local-
> parts and optionally in domain-parts and the use of UTF-8 in mail
> headers -- both in address contexts and wherever encoded-words are
> permitted today.

s/both/including/

There may well be other headers, whether in current use or to be invented,  
and even possibly invented as part of this exercise, where the UTF-8  
approach might be introduced. For example, headers containing IRIs as  
oposed to URIs, and the Newsgroups header, in the event that this work is  
later extended to Netnews Tbis is not included in the present charter, but  
is a likely extension in the future. The WG needs to address issues that  
might arise with such future headers (e.g. a general-purpose fallback  
downgrading mechanism).

--

-- 
(Continue reading)

Yangwoo Ko | 23 Feb 01:50 2006
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[IEE] [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-klensin-ima-framework-01.txt]

Dear all,

Newly updated framework document is posted as I-D.
Your precious comments are invited.

Regards
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From: Dear all, Newly updated framework document is posted as I-D. Your precious comments are invited. Regards <Internet-Drafts <at> ietf.org>
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-klensin-ima-framework-01.txt
Date: 2006-02-22 20:50:02 GMT
A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.

	Title		: Overview and Framework for Internationalized Email
	Author(s)	: J. Klensin, Y. Ko
	Filename	: draft-klensin-ima-framework-01.txt
	Pages		: 16
	Date		: 2006-2-22
	
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YAO Jiankang | 23 Feb 02:18 2006
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[IEE] Fw: WG Review: Email Address Internationalization (eai)

the attachment message is sent from Larry Masinter.

In order to prevent the possible spam, we set that only members of the list can send the messages to the list. 
sorry for the un-convenient caused by this set.
I have added Larry's email in the List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically
accepted. 

Yao Jiankang
CNNIC
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Larry Masinter" <LMM <at> acm.org>
To: <ima-owner <at> ietf.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:37 AM
Subject: FW: WG Review: Email Address Internationalization (eai)


> Probably this should go to the ima list. 
Picon
From: Larry Masinter <LMM <at> acm.org>
Subject: RE: WG Review: Email Address Internationalization (eai)
Date: 2006-02-22 16:35:24 GMT
In reply to
>  >Should the group to also consider internationalization
>  >of "mailto" URIs,
>  >
(Continue reading)

Harald Tveit Alvestrand | 23 Feb 16:15 2006
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[IEE] Agenda slot for IMA in Dallas

A slot has been reserved for this BOF, which may be a WG at the time:

0900-1130 Morning Session I
APP  eai        Email Address Internationalization BOF
INT  netlmm     Network-based Localized Mobility Management WG
INT  trill      Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links WG
OPS  adslmib    ADSL MIB WG
OPS  radext     RADIUS Extensions WG
RAI  avt        Audio/Video Transport WG
RAI  ecrit      Emergency Context Resolution with Internet Technologies WG
RTG  forces     Forwarding and Control Element Separation WG

If anyone sees a dramatic conflict in this slot, please holler.

I do hope that we can get up to speed on the issues on the mailing list - 
it's been very quiet here so far.

Please suggest points for the agenda; if we have enough to talk about, I'll 
get one together; if we don't have enough to talk about, I'll cancel.

                   Harald
_______________________________________________
IMA mailing list
IMA <at> ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ima
John C Klensin | 23 Feb 16:24 2006

Re: [IEE] Agenda slot for IMA in Dallas

Harald,

You forgot to mention that this was Tuesday morning (not some
other day).  

Agenda comments soon... I'm busy trying to generate documents to
discuss on it :-)

   john

--On Thursday, 23 February, 2006 16:15 +0100 Harald Tveit
Alvestrand <harald <at> alvestrand.no> wrote:

> A slot has been reserved for this BOF, which may be a WG at
> the time:
> 
> 0900-1130 Morning Session I
> APP  eai        Email Address Internationalization BOF
> INT  netlmm     Network-based Localized Mobility Management WG
> INT  trill      Transparent Interconnection of Lots of Links WG
> OPS  adslmib    ADSL MIB WG
> OPS  radext     RADIUS Extensions WG
> RAI  avt        Audio/Video Transport WG
> RAI  ecrit      Emergency Context Resolution with Internet
> Technologies WG
> RTG  forces     Forwarding and Control Element Separation WG
> 
> If anyone sees a dramatic conflict in this slot, please holler.
> 
> I do hope that we can get up to speed on the issues on the
(Continue reading)

Dave Crocker | 23 Feb 19:43 2006
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Re: [IEE] WG Review: Email Address Internationalization (eai)

Folks,

This is clearly a necessary effort, to enhance Internet Mail.

A few comments/questions about the charter:

Standard, general observation about the first paragraph:  IETF working group 
charters use their first paragraph very widely -- such as when sending notice to 
the ietf-announce list of the wg creation.  So, that it should summarize the 
problem and, at least, the deliverable of the working group.  In other words, 
the paragraph should stand on its own, as a summary of the working group.

> Since early in the effort to internationalize domain names, which
> resulted in the standards associated with IDNA, it has been
> understood that internationalization of email address local parts is
> even more important. After all, most prefer variations on their
> names for those addresses. At the same time, email address

What does "most prefer variations on their names for those addresses" mean?

Perhaps it means something like:  "most users of Internet mail would prefer a 
mailbox name that can be represented in characters other than basic ASCII"?

>  --constraints that go back to before RFC 821 and
> that have been vital to the operation of the Internet's email
> environment-- make address encoding nearly impossible. The need to

Although I realize that there is quite a bit of history to this topic and even 
have some recollection of participating in at least one such conversation, and 
equally realize that the SMTP world (and RFC2822 world) of address do have some 
(Continue reading)

John C Klensin | 23 Feb 07:17 2006

Re: [IEE] Fw: WG Review: Email Address Internationalization (eai)


--On Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:18 AM +0800 YAO Jiankang 
<yaojk <at> cnnic.cn> wrote:

> the attachment message is sent from Larry Masinter.

> Martin noted:
>
>> I think the general opinion (most prominently voiced by
>> John Klensin) on the ima mailing list was that the WG should
>> review draft-duerst-mailto-bis-01.txt, but not tie it up in
>> formalities.
>> (see
>> http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ima/current/msg00087.ht
>> ml).
>>
>> Did you come to a different conclusion, or are you just asking
>> to make sure this has been thought about?
>
> What John said was:
>
># I think some of us should just look at the thing, soon, and
># get comments to you, rather than tying things up in
># formalities.
>
> and it's not clear that that's happened. I'd like to make sure
> that it does happen. Adding "mailto" to the IMA WG charter
> would be one way of insuring that it does happen.

Larry,
(Continue reading)

John C Klensin | 22 Feb 14:42 2006

Re: [IEE] WG Review: Email Address Internationalization (eai)

Charles,

Just a heads-up on part of your comment below.

The WG will certainly work hard to find one, and this is 
personal opinion only, but I don't think there is going to be a 
"general-purpose downgrading mechanism" for addresses.

To have such a mechanism appears to require changing the very 
strict requirement of RFC 2821 and its predecessors that nothing 
other than the final delivery MTA ever try to figure out what a 
local-part means.  Given your netnews experience, you are 
presumably familiar with the difficulties we got into when 
various systems tried to outsmart the presumed explicit routing 
of bang-paths and %-hacks, especially when they were mixed. 
Many of us can also remember difficulties with intermediate 
systems --sometimes even originating systems that tried to 
second-guess the user-- that parsed the local part, applied 
their assumptions about what was going on, and then attempted to 
remap and optimize it, thereby trashing imbedded commands, 
subaddresses, and so on.

In the general case, if one has an i18n local part and wants to 
alter it into a traditional one in transit, the same issues 
apply: the intermediate system has to know how the destination 
host might interpret that address in order to downgrade it.

The current working drafts (versions of ima-framework and 
ima-smtpext that should appear within the next few days) contain 
two suggested mechanisms that should help with downgrading, but 
(Continue reading)


Gmane