John G. Scudder | 1 Mar 2007 01:20
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Re: AFI IANA Considerations

Now that I come to think of it, here's Yet Another Variant which I  
may have mentioned at the meeting where we discussed this:

25-16383: Standards Action + Early Assignment
16384-32767: FCFS
32768-65535: Reserved

The point being, even the ranges given above for SA+EA and FCFS are  
absurdly large.  If there is actually a run on the bank as Curtis  
describes (at least that's what I assume "free for all" means) then  
the damage that can be done is bounded and there's still a large  
reserved range kept fallow for future needs.

On the other hand I confidently predict that we will never need to  
break into the reserved range because exhausting the given ranges is  
inconceivable [1].

I'm fine with the proposal as written, but if folks need a security  
blanket, maybe the variant above will be sufficient.

--John

[1] With apologies to Inigo Montoya.  Also, we will never need more  
than 640k of memory.

On Feb 28, 2007, at 1:41 AM, Bill Fenner wrote:

>
> I agree there's no motivation to move.  The barrier to
> moving isn't technical, it's simply motivation.
(Continue reading)

Jeffrey Haas | 1 Mar 2007 16:49

Re: AFI IANA Considerations

On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 08:20:52AM +0800, John G. Scudder wrote:
> Now that I come to think of it, here's Yet Another Variant which I  
> may have mentioned at the meeting where we discussed this:
> 
> 25-16383: Standards Action + Early Assignment
> 16384-32767: FCFS
> 32768-65535: Reserved

I'm in favor of this.

> --John

-- Jeff

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Serkan | 1 Mar 2007 17:01
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Different inter domain routing protocols

Hello,
I started to work on inter domain routing algorithms and I am wondering how two different inter-domain routing algorihms run in one network simultaneously. Is there any RFC, web site or book explaining this concept?
 
Kindly Regards,
 
Serkan

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Danny McPherson | 5 Mar 2007 09:33
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Re: AFI IANA Considerations


On Mar 1, 2007, at 8:49 AM, Jeffrey Haas wrote:

> On Thu, Mar 01, 2007 at 08:20:52AM +0800, John G. Scudder wrote:
>> Now that I come to think of it, here's Yet Another Variant which I
>> may have mentioned at the meeting where we discussed this:
>>
>> 25-16383: Standards Action + Early Assignment
>> 16384-32767: FCFS
>> 32768-65535: Reserved
>
> I'm in favor of this.

Me too..  I prefer this model, as I echoed at the mic at the last  
meeting.

-danny

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Bill Fenner | 5 Mar 2007 15:43
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Re: AFI IANA Considerations


>Now that I come to think of it, here's Yet Another Variant which I  
>may have mentioned at the meeting where we discussed this:
>
>25-16383: Standards Action + Early Assignment
>16384-32767: FCFS
>32768-65535: Reserved

Seems like something that everyone can get behind.  Barring an
outcry before Thursday, this is what I will take to the IESG
conference call to be approved.

  Bill

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The IESG | 9 Mar 2007 22:34
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Protocol Action: 'BGP Support for Four-octet AS Number Space' to Proposed Standard

The IESG has approved the following document:

- 'BGP Support for Four-octet AS Number Space '
   <draft-ietf-idr-as4bytes-13.txt> as a Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the Inter-Domain Routing Working Group. 

The IESG contact persons are Bill Fenner and Ross Callon.

A URL of this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idr-as4bytes-13.txt

Technical Summary

   Currently the Autonomous System number is encoded as a two-octet
   entity in BGP. This document describes extensions to BGP to carry the
   Autonomous System number as a four-octet entity.

   Based on historical and current allocation rates, the range available
   to two-octet AS numbers is expected to run out in 2010.

Working Group Summary

     This is a long-standing work item for the working group, with the
     first draft being published in February 2001.

     The approach described in the draft to support 4 Byte AS numbers
     is one of no change to BGP in terms of protocol in all but one
     aspect: The OPEN message uses a 4-Byte capability advertisement
     and the use of a 2 Byte MyAS field value. In all other respects
     there is no change to the protocol elements of BGP, other than
     using 4 bytes where ASs are used.

     The other substantive topic of the draft is in the interoperation
     of 4-Byte AS speakers with 2-Byte AS speakers.

     The OPEN message with capability advertisement has attracted one
     comment that this is contrary to RFC3392, however a detailed
     analysis of this comment has not lead to substantiation of this
     comment.  Using this as a dynamic capability rather than an OPEN
     capability was raised as a comment, with the response that there
     is no reason to make the capability dynamic in this case.

     The tunnelling technique of using an opaque transitive community
     attribute to carry the 4-Byte AS Path attracted some comment. The
     comment was concerned with the reconstruction of the 4-Byte AS
     path across a 2-to-4 byte BGP boundary, where the algorithm for
     the reconstruction was, in some comments, not sufficiently
     well-defined.

     However it is also the case that the critical elements of the role
     of the AS Path are adequately described in the draft. The AS path
     length is used as a metric in the BGP path selection process, and
     the AS path itself is used for loop prevention. The draft
     specifies that the reconstruction of the AS path across a 2-byte
     to 4-byte AS transition should preserve the AS path length. The
     draft does not cover every possible eventuality of reconstruction
     of the 4-byte AS path, but a closer examination of the loop
     detection issue reveals that loops that may occur across a mixed 2
     Byte / 4 Byte path are detectable within one iteration of the loop
     within the 2-Byte component of the mixed loop path in all
     circumstances. Accordingly, both the use of the AS path length as
     a path metric and the use of the AS path as a loop detection
     mechanism are preserved in this approach, even though the draft is
     not definitive in describing the AS path reassembly algorithm in
     every possible eventuality. In other words the draft contains the
     necessary and sufficient minimum set of properties for AS path
     reconstruction, leaving the precise algorithm up to the
     implementation. This approach is not seen as impairing the
     functionality, interoperability or integrity of BGP, either within
     the context of the individual peering session or in the context of
     the broader IDR framework.

     A comment was raised that on-the-wire inspection of BGP updates
     would not know in all cases whether they were seeing 2-byte or
     4-byte AS BGP updates. The BGP update contains no additional
     control flags, and unless the on-the-wire device collects the
     initial OPEN message with the capability negotiation then the
     information as to 2-byte or 4-byte AS updates is not explicit. It
     has been noted that heuristics could be readily applied here, and
     the presence of the reserved 2-byte AS value 0 in the AS path is
     one indicator that the momitor is applying a 2-byte interpretation
     to a 4-byte BGP update.

     There were no other approaches referenced in the working group
     during Last Call, and the choice of this draft as representing one
     that is backwards compatible with existing BGP appears to have
     been an obvious obvious choice to the working group.

     The IETF Last call comments concernd the RFC3392 Capability
     Advertisement examination of these comments indicates that the
     concerns relating to RFC3392 are unwarranted, and the treatment of
     the capability advertisement is consistent with a conventional use
     of RFC3392 and is compatible with older versions of BGP.

     The IETF Last Call comments touched upon the larger size of BGP
     updates, and the desireability of using a compressed
     representation of AS Path.  The Working Group did not see any need
     to include a compressed representation of AS paths in BGP
     updates. It appears that the onus of making a case that some form
     of compressed encoding of these BGP fields is of merit lies with
     the proponents of this as a potential source of problem, and the
     solution with respect to the AS_PATH representation lies in
     RFC3392 with additional capabilities being negotiated, either at
     session OPEN time or possibly dynamically.  Thus, this 4-byte
     spec, that does not used compressed representation of AS_PATH is
     adequate, and those who believe that more compact representations
     are called for have a clear path of proposing such a specification
     to the IDR working group as a negotiated capability. The task for
     those who are of the opinion that such compact encodings are
     important to show why and propose a capability to be negotiated to
     do so in both the 4Byte and 2Byte worlds in the IDR Working
     Group.

Protocol Quality

   Bill Fenner and Geoff Huston reviewed the document for the IESG.
   There are implementations; see the implementation report at
   http://www.ietf.org/IESG/Implementations/bgp4_impleme.txt

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Yakov Rekhter | 16 Mar 2007 14:31
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slides

Folks,

If you are presenting at the upcoming IDR WG meeting in Prague, 
please send me your slides asap, so that I can make them
available on-line.

Yakov.

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Ricardo V. Oliveira | 16 Mar 2007 22:31
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Question about aggregation

Hi,

I have a question related to route aggregation, that I could not find  
specified in RFC4271.
Suppose a router aggregates two entries: 10.0.1/24 and 10.0.2/24 with  
same ASPATH [A B C] into a single entry:
10.0/16 [A B C]
Then 10.0.1/24 decides to change provider and switches to a new  
aspath [A D C], and we'll have in the table:
10.0/16 [A B C]
10.0.1/24 [A D C]

which is fine since forwarding will follow longest match.
Now suppose 10.0.2/24 decides to change providers to path [A E C],  
then we end up w/:
10.0/16 [A B C]
10.0.1/24 [A D C]
10.0.2/24 [A E C]

And the initial entry is now a bogus entry. How do routers usually  
get rid of these stale entries?
The same question applies if all more specific routes are withdrawn,  
is the aggregate also withdrawn?
Do routers keep state of more specific routes in Adj-RIB-In and  
update Local-RIB accordingly?

Also, in section 9.1.4 of the RFC (overlapping routes) it's said:

"If a BGP speaker receives overlapping routes, the Decision Process
    MUST consider both routes based on the configured acceptance policy.
    If both a less and a more specific route are accepted, then the
    Decision Process MUST install, in Loc-RIB, either both the less and
    the more specific routes or aggregate the two routes and install, in
    Loc-RIB, the aggregated route, provided that both routes have the
    same value of the NEXT_HOP attribute."

But in section 9.2.2.2 (aggregating routing information) it's said:

"Path attributes of the same type code may be aggregated,
    according to the following rules:

       NEXT_HOP:
          When aggregating routes that have different NEXT_HOP
          attributes, the NEXT_HOP attribute of the aggregated route
          SHALL identify an interface on the BGP speaker that performs
          the aggregation.
"

So it seems the first sentence was not updated according to the  
aggregation rules of the new RFC.

Thanks,

--Ricardo

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Susan Hares | 21 Mar 2007 11:22

BGP MIB v2 input

Working group:

 

Simon Leinen and Pekka Savola indicated the current MIB is not sufficient,

And that portions of BGP MIBv2 that allow operators to see the:

 

-       amount of prefixes received, and

-       amount of prefixes filtered.

 

Please send what in BGP MIB v2 is useful to you.

 

The BGP MIB v2 has been in limbo for 5 years due to lack of feedback.

 

We would like to encourage feedback from operators who actually use these variables.

 

Please send what variables you use to the list.

 

Sue Hares

 

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Simon Leinen | 21 Mar 2007 16:05
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Re: BGP MIB v2 input

Susan Hares writes:
> Working group:
> Simon Leinen and Pekka Savola indicated the current MIB is not
> sufficient,

For reference, the current MIB is now RFC 4273, which is almost
identical to the venerable RFC 1657.  The "MIBv2" I-D has expired (not
for the first time), but can be retrieved from:
    http://tools.ietf.org/wg/idr/draft-ietf-idr-bgp4-mibv2/

> And that portions of BGP MIBv2 that allow operators to see the:

> -       amount of prefixes received, and
> -       amount of prefixes filtered.

Pekka raised these, and as an operator, I would also find them quite
useful for monitoring peerings' sanity (peer going berserk?) and
evolution (when it might be time for me to update filters,
max-prefixes, get rid of the peering because it has become
insignificant etc.)

They are available in MIBv2 as "bgpM2PrefixInPrefixes" (number of
prefixes currently received from a peer for an address family), and
"bgpM2PrefixInPrefixesAccepted/bgpM2PrefixInPrefixesRejected",
respectively.  It seems to me that these three variables are slightly
redundant (although as an operator, I should probably like redundancy
:-), as ...InPrefixes = ...InPrefixesAccepted + ...InPrefixesRejected.

(I asked a MIB doctor who happened to be sitting next to me, and he
said it would be better to avoid this kind of redundancy in a MIB.)

> Please send what in BGP MIB v2 is useful to you.

Definitely useful:

Everything that's under bgpM2PrefixCountersTable (except one of the
three objects mentioned above, to remove the redundancy).

I especially like the fact that this table (and all others) allow
peerings over IPv6 to be monitoring.  We cannot currently do this in
our network, and that is a pain.

> The BGP MIB v2 has been in limbo for 5 years due to lack of feedback. 

> We would like to encourage feedback from operators who actually use
> these variables. 

We cannot use them since they don't exist, but we would use them
almost instantly if we had software that supported them, even in
vendor-specific variants.

> Please send what variables you use to the list.
--

-- 
Simon.

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