John C Klensin | 6 Nov 07:24

Re: Moving the IDN RFCs from Proposed to Draft Standards

Paul,

I have delayed writing this note in the hope that someone else 
would take the lead -- I'm tired of being the bad guy with 
regard to IDNA, which I basically support.  But a number of 
conversations during the last week have convinced me that it is 
important that something be said, so, two issues:

(1) It was my understanding of the agreements when the IDN 
documents were approved that, when they went to Draft, the Draft 
versions would incorporate a better statement of applicability 
and scope than the original versions and, in particular, would 
incorporate the gist of the "IESG Statement" on IDN 
applicability and missing pieces.   That agreement does not 
appear to be reflected in the text of the new drafts.

(2) Efforts to deploy IDNs seem to be hitting some user problems 
as those users see more of punycode then makes them happy.  Of 
course, for many end users, seeing punycode at all, ever, is too 
much.  Since the purpose of IDNA is to deliver native-text 
characters to end user applications and the presentation to the 
user, there is a case to be made that the "interoperable 
implementations" condition needs to be demonstrated with actual, 
end-user-oriented, applications that deliver non-ASCII 
characters to users.  That is, interoperability between test 
environments that can demonstrate the ability to prepare, code, 
and decode strings is not sufficient to demonstrate that 
interoperable and conforming implementations are possible.  I 
can't tell from the IDNConnect "final report" whether that 
stronger condition was met by those programs but, if it was not, 
(Continue reading)

Paul Hoffman / IMC | 6 Nov 19:26
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Re: Moving the IDN RFCs from Proposed to Draft Standards

At 1:24 AM -0500 11/6/03, John C Klensin wrote:
>It was my understanding of the agreements when the IDN documents 
>were approved that, when they went to Draft, the Draft versions 
>would incorporate a better statement of applicability and scope than 
>the original versions and, in particular, would incorporate the gist 
>of the "IESG Statement" on IDN applicability and missing pieces. 
>That agreement does not appear to be reflected in the text of the 
>new drafts.

Just before the problem statement in draft-hoffman-rfc3490bis-01.txt, 
it says "The IESG issued a statement on IDNA [IESG-STATEMENT]." I 
didn't want to put the statement in directly because the IDNA authors 
didn't write the IESG statement, and it could dilute the value of the 
statement by making it appear to be something we did. However, seeing 
your concern, I'll ask the IESG about what they would prefer on this. 
I'm happy either way.

>Since the purpose of IDNA is to deliver native-text characters to 
>end user applications and the presentation to the user, there is a 
>case to be made that the "interoperable implementations" condition 
>needs to be demonstrated with actual, end-user-oriented, 
>applications that deliver non-ASCII characters to users.

Fully agree.

>   That is, interoperability between test environments that can 
>demonstrate the ability to prepare, code, and decode strings is not 
>sufficient to demonstrate that interoperable and conforming 
>implementations are possible.

(Continue reading)

John C Klensin | 7 Nov 18:32

Re: Moving the IDN RFCs from Proposed to Draft Standards

This is great news.  Thanks for the in-depth reply.
    john

--On Thursday, 06 November, 2003 10:26 -0800 "Paul Hoffman / 
IMC" <phoffman <at> imc.org> wrote:

> At 1:24 AM -0500 11/6/03, John C Klensin wrote:
>> It was my understanding of the agreements when the IDN
>> documents  were approved that, when they went to Draft, the
>> Draft versions  would incorporate a better statement of
>> applicability and scope than  the original versions and, in
>> particular, would incorporate the gist  of the "IESG
>> Statement" on IDN applicability and missing pieces.  That
>> agreement does not appear to be reflected in the text of the
>> new drafts.
>
> Just before the problem statement in
> draft-hoffman-rfc3490bis-01.txt, it says "The IESG issued a
> statement on IDNA [IESG-STATEMENT]." I didn't want to put the
> statement in directly because the IDNA authors didn't write
> the IESG statement, and it could dilute the value of the
> statement by making it appear to be something we did. However,
> seeing your concern, I'll ask the IESG about what they would
> prefer on this. I'm happy either way.
>
>> Since the purpose of IDNA is to deliver native-text
>> characters to  end user applications and the presentation to
>> the user, there is a  case to be made that the "interoperable
>> implementations" condition  needs to be demonstrated with
>> actual, end-user-oriented,  applications that deliver
(Continue reading)

James Seng | 18 Nov 02:37
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IDN Open Source


Some of you may be aware that there is a initiative to start an IDN Open 
Source Software project. After some delay (mostly my fault), we finally 
got our website:
	http://idn.isc.org/

You can also find some information on our Wiki:
	http://idn.isc.org/wiki/wiki.cgi

Comments or Suggestions are welcome!
	http://idn.isc.org/wiki/wiki.cgi?Suggestions

I will be setting up a mailing list soon but in the meantime, if you 
wish to help out in the effort or like to be kept informed, drop me an 
email.

-James Seng


Gmane