Thomas Narten | 15 Aug 06:50

Weekly posting summary for ietf <at> ietf.org

Total of 131 messages in the last 7 days.

script run at: Fri Aug 15 00:53:02 EDT 2008

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--------+------+--------+----------+------------------------
  1.53% |    2 | 45.25% |   686306 | rubin.rose <at> wtl.be
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  9.16% |   12 |  4.48% |    67881 | john-ietf <at> jck.com
  6.87% |    9 |  3.88% |    58890 | simon <at> josefsson.org
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(Continue reading)

Jukka MJ Manner | 14 Aug 17:05

Re: Last Call: draft-manner-router-alert-iana (IANA Considerations for the IPv4 and IPv6 Router Alert Option) to Proposed Standard

Hi,

About cutting most of the Security Considerations section, I don't 
personally have a preference, either is fine. Yet, I tend to agree with 
Jari that stating the obvious isn't such a big problem, it just reminds 
people that there are issues to consider. (Whether the use of an 
arbitrary RAO value kills routers, I don't know - if we ask router 
manufacturers surely they will not tell us. ;) )

Both registries will use 32 values for the aggregation levels. For IPv6 
RAO, value 3 is removed but value 35 is kept. Thus, IPv6 will have 
values 4-35 (=32 values) for the 32 levels.

We can make this more clear, yet, I already answered a question from 
IANA about this a couple of weeks ago, so they are aware of how the 
registry should be changed.

Jukka

Jari Arkko wrote:
> Kre, authors,
> 
>> First (last sentence of section 2):
>>
>>    It is unclear why nesting levels begin at 1 for IPv4 (described in
>>    section 1.4.9 of [RFC3175]) and 0 for IPv6 (allocated in section 6 of
>>    [RFC3175]).
>>
>> isn't the kind of sentence that belongs in a doc like this.   If the
>> authors are mystified, just omit the sentence, including it adds nothing.
(Continue reading)

Dean Anderson | 13 Aug 21:25

Re: several messages

> > How can a description of how to use a technology infringe on a patent?
>
> A standard isn't merely a description, as in a magazine article, but
> also represents an industry agreement on the definition of a product. A
> draft or WG could encourage persons to violate a patent, which is
> indirect infringement.  A draft or WG could define a product that is a
> contributory infringement on a patent.  The working group must take care
> not to do these things.

As I said before, I agree with Atty Rosen's position and I hope it will
prevail, I have run into lawyers who assert that source code
distribution does infringe a patent.

In the source code distribution examples that I know of, the
distributors were very clear about the existance of patents in certain
jurisdictions, and therefore seemed to have prudently (I would hope
sufficiently prudently)  avoided indirect infringement.  But it also
seems indisputable that there are indeed scenarios of imprudent actions
which could invoke indirect or contributory infringement.

There doesn't seem to be any basis for the assertion that it is entirely
impossible for the IETF to ever engage in indirect or contributory
infringement, no matter what actions it undertakes or how imprudent
those actions are.  So I think the IETF must define policies so to avoid
the scenarios of imprudent actions.

		--Dean

--

-- 
Av8 Internet   Prepared to pay a premium for better service?
(Continue reading)

Rubin Rose | 13 Aug 15:47

lateral approach to SS7/VoIP over satellite

Dear members,

 

I was inspired to submit content in order to explore the potential for integration of NOP into current revised standards for transmission of SS7 over IP over satellite.

 

If this content is deemed too commercial for this readership kindly advise or direct me towards a more appropriate audience; a brief overview of the concept is included in the text below related to a joint development successfully completed with ESA (European Space Agency):
Full details in attached pdf format;

Excerpt
World Telecom Labs, a Belgian-based developer of Voice over IP (VoIP) equipment for telecom operators, developed this technology through ESA’s Research in Telecommunications Systems (ARTES) program. The project’s objective was to address the difficulties of carrying VoIP traffic over shared satellite services, primarily DVB-RCS, to result in a commercially saleable device allowing telecom operators to deploy a range of satellite-based commercial services.”

 

Regards,

 

 

Rubin Rose

International Account Manager

Changing the way the World Communicates ............

World Telecom Labs

Diegemstraat 42

B-1930 Zaventem

Belgium

Telephone +32 2 722 7200

Fax +32 2 725 6006

Web http://www.wtl.be

Email rubin.rose <at> wtl.be

************************************************************************
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of this information, or taking of any action in reliance upon it by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.

 

Attachment (VoIP White Paper5.pdf): application/pdf, 46 KiB
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Rubin Rose | 13 Aug 14:26

lateral approach to SS7/VoIP over satellite

Dear members,

 

I was inspired to submit content in order to explore the potential for integration of NOP into current revised standards for transmission of SS7 over IP over satellite.

 

If this content is deemed too commercial for this readership kindly advise or direct me towards a more appropriate audience; a brief overview of the concept is included in the text below related to a joint development successfully completed with ESA (European Space Agency): The complete article is covered in the attached link, and a separate .xls file includes calculation parameters for NOP benefits over SIP and H323.

WTL has an excellent track record in providing equipment for voice services using satellite trunking and has over 100 systems deployed around the world. The company’s key strength in this area has always been the superior bandwidth-saving capability of WTL’s patented NOP (Network Optimisation Protocol).

The Artes 4 contract provided joint funding for a series of developments designed to make WTL equipment perform an even better job for telecom operators wishing to use these emerging low cost satellite services. One aspect of the ESA project was to modify NOP to operate efficiently over DVB-RCS services. The lower price point of DVB-RCS equipment and space segment means that this is of great interest to operators, particularly in the developing world.”

 

Regards,

 

 

Rubin Rose

International Account Manager

Changing the way the World Communicates ............

World Telecom Labs

Diegemstraat 42

B-1930 Zaventem

Belgium

Telephone +32 2 722 7200

Fax +32 2 725 6006

Web http://www.wtl.be

Email rubin.rose <at> wtl.be

************************************************************************
The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of this information, or taking of any action in reliance upon it by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.

 

From: <div> <div class="Section1"> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="NL-BE">Dear members, <p></p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="NL-BE"><p>&nbsp;</p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span>I was inspired to submit content in order to explore the potential for integration of NOP into current revised standards for transmission of SS7 over IP over satellite.<p></p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span><p>&nbsp;</p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span>If this content is deemed too commercial for this readership kindly advise or direct me towards a more appropriate audience; a brief overview of the concept is included in the text below related to a joint development successfully completed with ESA (European Space Agency): The complete article is covered in the attached link, and a separate .xls file includes calculation parameters for NOP benefits over SIP and H323.<br><br> &ldquo;</span><span>WTL has an excellent track record in providing equipment for voice services using satellite trunking and has over 100 systems deployed around the world. The company&rsquo;s key strength in this area has always been the superior bandwidth-saving capability of WTL&rsquo;s patented NOP (Network Optimisation Protocol). <p></p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span>The Artes 4 contract provided joint funding for a series of developments designed to make WTL equipment perform an even better job for telecom operators wishing to use these emerging low cost satellite services. One aspect of the ESA project was to modify NOP to operate efficiently over DVB-RCS services. The lower price point of DVB-RCS equipment and space segment means that this is of great interest to operators, particularly in the developing world.&rdquo;<p></p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span><p>&nbsp;</p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span>Regards,</span><span><p></p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span><p>&nbsp;</p></span></p> <p class="MsoNormal"><span><p>&nbsp;</p></span></p> <div> <p><span>Rubin Rose</span><span><p></p></span></p> <p><span>International Account Manager </span><span><p></p></span></p> <p><span>Changing the way the World Communicates ............</span><span><p></p></span></p> <p><span>World Telecom Labs</span><span><p></p></span></p> <p><span>Diegemstraat 42</span><span><p></p></span></p> <p><span>B-1930 Zaventem</span><span><p></p></span></p> <p><span>Belgium</span><span><p></p></span></p> <p><span>Telephone +32 2 722 7200</span><span><p></p></span></p> <p><span>Fax +32 2 725 6006</span><span><p></p></span></p> <p><span>Web <span>http://www.wtl.be</span></span><span><p></p></span></p> <p><span>Email rubin.rose <at> wtl.be<p></p></span></p> <p><span>************************************************************************<br> The information transmitted is intended only for the person or entity to which it is addressed and may contain confidential and/or privileged material. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of this information, or taking of any action in reliance upon it by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is prohibited. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer.</span><span><p></p></span></p> </div> <p class="MsoNormal"><span><p>&nbsp;</p></span></p> </div> </div> <Saved>
Subject: ESA Telecommunications: ESA Funded VoIP over Satellite Development helps African telecoms
Date: 2008-07-01 10:39:56 GMT

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ESA Funded VoIP over Satellite Development helps African telecoms

01 Jul 2008

Telecom operators across Africa and the Middle East can now benefit from new technology developed with the assistance of the European Space Agency.


World Telecom Labs, a Belgian-based developer of Voice over IP (VoIP) equipment for telecom operators, developed this technology through ESA’s Research in Telecommunications Systems (ARTES) program. The project’s objective was to address the difficulties of carrying VoIP traffic over shared satellite services, primarily DVB-RCS, to result in a commercially saleable device allowing telecom operators to deploy a range of satellite-based commercial services.

The platform used for this development was WTL's existing IPNx switch. Modifications needed to be made in order for it to become suitable for satcom operators by adapting WTL's patented Network Optimisation Protocol (NOP). Using WTL’s NOP bandwidth-saving technology will typically cut the cost of satellite bandwidth in half without sacrificing quality. Simply put, this technique packs multiple VoIP voice samples into a single IP packet. Because the samples are not modified, quality is unaffected but, on multi-call links, significant savings are made on the packet overhead. Also, since single samples are taken from each active call rather than queuing multiple samples from the same call, delay is not increased.

As the focus of the project was to create commercial benefits, a live customer network was to be installed and tested. The client chosen for this pilot was Xplorium, an international wholesale VoIP carrier with a presence in Europe, the Americas, the Middle East and Africa. Xplorium's specialities include carrying the international traffic of Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM) operators. In a number of locations the traffic is carried via satellite and this has given rise to concerns about the voice quality and the efficiency of transmission.

The first operational link used for the pilot was between Gambia and the client’s NOC in Paris with a capacity for 360 optimised VoIP calls (equivalent to 12 E1s). The trial was successful by demonstrating high voice quality and confirming that significant bandwidth savings were actually achieved. As a result the pilot was soon followed by deployments in a number of other African locations, with the traffic again being sent to the Paris hub.

Simon Pearson, WTL’s Business Development Director says; “For this installation we have been able to draw on the improvements that we made to NOP in the ESA funded project. This allows us almost to do the impossible – in some cases we can save bandwidth and improve the voice quality of VoIP over satellite. We have added features specifically to counteract the common problems of satellite transmission of VoIP, namely variable delay or jitter, long delay and packet loss in busy contended services.”

Frank Zeppenfeldt, Communications Engineer with ESA's Telecommunications and Integrated Applications department says;  "In this project ESA offered its technical DVB-RCS assets to support WTL in testing the performance of voice codecs in a satellite environment. This is a typical example of a development supported by the ARTES 4 program of ESA Telecommunications, in which a new product is developed that is close to the market and allows the enhancement of voice services over satellite."

ESA supports a wide range of projects, which encourage adoption of the DVB-RCS standard, providing positive benefits for all. DVB-RCS is an open standard for bi-directional or two-way transmission of digital data. It employs satellite transmission using combinations of C, Ku and Ka bands with return bandwidth up to 2 Mbit/s. Such projects stimulate growth and keep Europe on the forefront of the telecommunications industry.

For more information, see the links located in the top right corner of this page.

Last Update: 01 Jul 2008
 
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Bert Wijnen (IETF | 13 Aug 12:18

new text for ID_Checklist sect 3, item 6

The revision 1.8 of the ID-Checklist is at

    http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html

Sect 3, item 6 in that revision states:

     6. Addresses used in examples SHOULD use fully qualified
        domain names instead of literal IP addresses, and SHOULD
        use example fqdn's such as foo.example.com instead of
        real-world fqdn's. See [RFC2606] for example domain names
        that can be used. 

John Klensin has proposed new text, whcih was amended by
Ted Hardie and the resulting text (if I understood it correctly) is:

       "6.  Addresses used in I-Ds SHOULD use fully qualified 
        domain names (FQDNs) instead of literal IP addresses. 
        Working Groups or authors seeing exemptions from that 
        rule MUST supply the rationale for IP address use with 
        inline comments (e.g., "Editor's note:" or "Note in 
        Draft:" that can be evaluated by the IESG and the 
        community along with the rest of the document.  Example
        domains in pseudo-code, actual code segments, sample
        data structures and templates, specifically including MIB
        definitions and examples that could reasonably be 
        expected to be partially or entirely copied into code, 
        MUST be drawn from the list reserved for documentary
        use in BCP32 (RFC 2606 or its successors).  It is generally 
        desirable for domain names used in other I-D discussion 
        contexts to be drawn from BCP32 as well, if only as an 
        act of politeness toward those who might be using the 
        domains for other purposes at the time of publication or 
        subsequently.   Working groups or editors who are 
        convinced that different names are required MUST be 
        prepared to explain and justify their choices and SHOULD 
        do so with explicit inline comments such as those 
        described above." 

From the discussion on the list (that I have seen), people seem to
be OK with that text. It is quite a bit longer, but so be it.

Does anyone have objections to the above text as replacement for
the current text?

Bert 
Editor for ID_Checklist
TS Glassey | 12 Aug 18:02

Failing of IPR Filing Page when makling updates in re LTANS and other filings.

Folks - I found several working flaws with the IPR disclosure page when I
went back to the IPR201 filing this AM to add several additional Internet
Draft's for notice of Patent Controls; As to the IPR Page - it does not
allow for updates of already filed IPR Statement's to include new IETF
documents which violate the patent rights after the posting of the IPR
Notice.

So then how does one add more IETF infringing document's to an
existing IPR declaration.

That said we wanted to add several more document's which infringe on the
patent protected IP's which we have refused to grant any rights to the IETF
for. Those new additional documents include the latest LTANS DSSC
(draft-ietf-ltans-dssc-03) document and to some extent Donald Eastlakes XML
Signature RFC from 2002 (rfc3275)

Luckily our patent filing predates ANY work on the XML signing document
here in the IETF and for that matter in the W3C as well meaning lots of good
things regarding that patent and its infringers.

---
Personal Disclaimers Apply

TS Glassey
Christian Hopps | 12 Aug 16:28

Prague (ietf-68) t-shirt laundry mix-up.

Hi,

I'm hoping to get in touch with an IETF-72 attendee who stayed at the  
conference hotel, who did laundry and included their blue prague ietf  
t-shirt size 2-xlarge and received back a size large instead.

I have you're 2xl and you have my large, please contact me so we can  
exchange. :)

Chris.
Ed Juskevicius | 11 Aug 05:54

Last Call for Comments on " Legal Provisions Related to IETF Documents"

This is to announce that the IETF Trustees have just
posted a revised version of a draft policy on 
"Legal Provisions Related to IETF Documents" dated
08-05-08 at:
http://trustee.ietf.org/policyandprocedures.html

This draft includes all of the changes agreed during
the July 31st meeting of the IPR working group held
in Dublin.

On behalf of the IETF Trustees, we invite your
review and final comments and suggestions on this
policy.  

The IETF Trustees will meet via telechat on Aug 21st
with the goal of finalizing this policy.  If you
have any final comments, please post them on the
IPR WG mailing list.  

Best Regards, and Thanks in advance, 

Ed Juskevicius      Ray Pelletier
Chair               Trustee
IETF Trust          IETF Administrative Director
Ole Jacobsen | 11 Aug 02:29

Improvements for IETF 72


With all the discussions about food, hotel network problems, etc, you 
might have overlooked some of the details that were different in the
positive sense at IETF 72.

First, the registration process now auto-generates a PDF receipt for 
your expense report, and if you misplace this file you can get a new
one by visiting the registration page again.

Second, take a closer look at the Attendee List:

https://www.ietf.org/registration/ietf72/attendance.py

Did you notice that you can click on ANY of the column headers and the 
data will be sorted by that column? Click a second time and the 
sorting will reverse (A-Z and Z-A). This allows you to find colleagues 
from your company, country, (ahem "economy") etc. (Wow, lots of people 
from Cisco in Dublin! ;-)

Third, on site you received a booklet rather than the usual stack of 
various sheets of paper. The Note Well, Local Info and Agenda was 
combined into a single document thus making those manilla envelopes a 
thing of the past. And it wasn't just stapled together, it was a real 
booklet, folded and stapled like a newsletter.

I hope you like these improvements as much as I did.

Ole (speaking for myself and not the IAOC)

PS. I have been discussing the issue of the new badge size and badge 
holder with the secretariat. The newer, larger badges are apparently
more "standard" (you can get holders in various parts of the world),
but they realize that some of you like the special black holders from
Dallas or even Salt Lake City that holds your badge, mini agenda and
even a pen. Hopefully a new "wallet" can be developed that will hold
the new badges. Another "sponsorship opportunity" I dare say.

Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher,  The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972   Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: ole <at> cisco.com  URL: http://www.cisco.com/ipj
Carsten Bormann | 10 Aug 14:24

Happy Birthday, IPv6

Ten years ago, on August 10, 1998, the IESG announced the protocol  
action to make a set of Internet-Drafts into Draft Standards, now RFC  
2460 to RFC 2463.  For many of us this marked the end of the gestation  
and the start of what has become a long, long deployment process.

In these ten years, the IETF has come a long way toward understanding  
what is needed to get protocols actually deployed (see RFC 5218 for a  
recent milestone).  Now that the recognition for the need for IPv6 has  
made it into the mainstream, I hope we can translate this knowledge  
into the final steps necessary to help make it happen.  I'm looking  
forward to a happy confirmation/first communion/bar mitzvah/... for  
IPv6 three years from now when there will no longer be any way around  
it.

Gruesse, Carsten

Gmane