Internet Fax (fax)

John Perkins | 1 Apr 1998 15:00

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Capabilities exchange

Having just gone through a two week backlog of messages, I detect the usual
fax people vs Internet people debate. Being unable to attend the LA meeting,
I would like to contribute the following. Although it restates a previous
contribution, I have yet to receive any reason why in principle, it cannot
be done. 

Most of fax negotiations are accomplished by a simple DIS<->DCS exchange.
This system has a proven record of extensiblity and backward compatibility. 
What I would like to be able to do is as follows:

As capability announcement, NSF, CSI and DIS should be conveyed in some
form, eg dotted hexadecimal. For example, my own fax machine would be
represented by:

NSF = "00.00.79.00.00.00.02.0f.09.03.00.10.00.05.02.95.90.1c" 
CSI = "34.39.39.38.20.34.33.35.39.20.33.20.31.36.2b.20.20.20.20.20" 
DIS = "00.ce.b8.04" 

In emulating the DCS response, something like: 
Content-type: image/tiff; application=faxbw
could be used, such as:
Content-type: fax/TSI="45.58.46.41.58";DCS="00.46.a8.0"

The advantage of this is that it supports fax. Anything less does not.
Nothing is lost from T.30. The fax people can then happly and easily do what
they want with it, and the Internet people do not need to concern themselves
too much about what the bit maps mean.

John

(Continue reading)

Brian Stafford | 1 Apr 1998 15:35

Re: Capabilities Exchamge for Direct and Inderect Coverage Areas

Oops!

I omitted a point I assumed was implicit when I posted my original
reply to this thread.  That is, when an onramp or UA sends a fax
via email, it should, in the absense of any information to the contrary,
contact a default offramp by automatically supplying its domain name.
The default offramp, in turn, will inform the UA whether it will dial
directly or forward.

The problem in this and other schemes is what happens if the offramp is not
prepared to dial a given number and cannot forward to an offramp which
is prepared to process the fax?

U18209 | 2 Apr 1998 10:09

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Re: Capabilities exchange

You can find same idea using t.30 frame in 
draft-ietf-fax-mdn-fullmode-01.

I have some trouble to put the draft into ftp site.
Please find it in the log of mailing list.

Regards.

Toru MAEDA

Graham Klyne | 2 Apr 1998 18:23

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Scenarios for content negotiation

The attached draft has been prepared based on various meetings and postings
to the discussion list.  It is intended to provide some background for the
discussion of fax confirmation mechanisms.

#g

---start---

IETF Internet fax WG                                      Graham Klyne
Internet draft                              Integralis Technology Ltd.
                                                          2 April 1998
                                               Expires: 2 October 1998

           Scenarios for Internet fax message confirmation
            <draft-ietf-fax-confirmation-scenarios-00.txt>

Status of this memo

  This document is an Internet-Draft.  Internet-Drafts are working
  documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its areas,
  and its working groups.  Note that other groups may also distribute
  working documents as Internet-Drafts.

  Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six
  months and may be updated, replaced, or made obsolete by other
  documents at any time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts
  as reference material or to cite them other than as ``work in
  progress''.

  To learn the current status of any Internet-Draft, please check the

(Continue reading)

James Rafferty | 3 Apr 1998 09:26

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Short Summary of WG Meeting in LA / Action Items

Folks, 

A  short summary of the WG meeting is shown below.   I'll try to post draft
minutes to the list over the course of the next week.   

The two items which need immediate attention are:  

1)  Draft Charter - The draft of the updated charter I sent to the list
last week was supported by the meeting.   Please send any comments on the
charter to the list before next Wednesday; then I'll submit the final
version to the area directors.   

2)  Goals and Terminology draft - The draft was generally supported, but
some editorial comments were made.  Please submit any further editorial
comments to the list by next Wednesday, so that Larry Masinter can prepare
an updated version.   The plan will then be to go to a WG Last Call on the
updated draft.   

The meeting summary follows: 

Internet Fax WG Summary

The Internet Fax work group met for two sessions.   It was noted that there
has been good cooperation with the ITU SG8 and that this will continue.
The first item was to review a proposal to update the WG charter in order
to develop specificiations for an extended mode of Internet fax.   Proposed
milestones were reviewed and there was consensus in the room  in support of
the draft charter.   Next, the "Goals" document was reviewed and generally
supported, with the next update being targeted for WG Last Call.    The
remainder of the meeting was devoted mainly to detailed discussion of

(Continue reading)

John Perkins | 3 Apr 1998 10:28

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Re: Capabilities exchange

>You can find same idea using t.30 frame in 
>draft-ietf-fax-mdn-fullmode-01.
>
>Toru MAEDA

Yes, I support the ideas in your draft. Communicating by means of T.30 seems
to me to save a lot of trouble defining alternative mappings: from T.30 for
the on-ramp and back to T.30 again for the off-ramp. 

I believe your fullmode draft would support BFT also. For example if the
receiver's DIS indicates a BFT compatible device, the sender may simply send
an ASN1 encoded file as a normal MIME attachment. This would be indicated by
the DCS content type.

So T.30 already does a lot of things. Why not use it? And after all, this is
an Internet fax working group, not an Internet image transfer working group.

Also, T.30 is quite adaptable to store & forward. (The following comments
may also be of relevance to Graham Klyne's scenarios document.)

Consider the 5 phases of a fax call:
    Phase A: Call setup
    Phase B: Pre-message cabability identification and selection
    Phase C: Message transfer
    Phase D: Post message confimation and multi-page signalling
    Phase E: Call release

Phase B is where the DIS-> <-DCS exchange takes place. Commonly, Phase D is
only used to return to Phase C to receive multiple pages. However, Phase B
may be re-entered if a mode change is required, such as a new resolution,

(Continue reading)

Dan Wing | 4 Apr 1998 00:48

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Re: Capabilities exchange

>>You can find same idea using t.30 frame in 
>>draft-ietf-fax-mdn-fullmode-01.
>>
>>Toru MAEDA
>
>Yes, I support the ideas in your draft. Communicating by means of T.30 seems
>to me to save a lot of trouble defining alternative mappings: from T.30 for
>the on-ramp and back to T.30 again for the off-ramp. 

There is an additional problem with sending T.30 which hasn't been
discussed on this mailing list, nor was raised at the LA meeting.  I
will be preparing an Internet Draft describing this problem.  The
problem is with sending T.30 in messages, or with out-of-band (human)
information, and is even worse if an GSTN call is used to determine
recipient features.

>I believe your fullmode draft would support BFT also. 

?

The functionality of BFT is already supported in email today 
and works great.  I can send you any file type and it is identified
as a MIME Content-Type.  It works.  We're done.  If a fax 
onramp/offramp wants to support BFT over T.30 and SMTP, that should be 
done by mapping the already-existing BFT to the already-existing MIME
content-type.  If you can't determine the appropriate MIME 
content-type, it should simply use application/octet-stream.

If you want to invent your own mechanism which eliminates 
compatibility with all existing and future email clients so that

(Continue reading)

Internet-Drafts | 7 Apr 1998 16:06

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I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-fax-confirmation-scenarios-00.txt

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internet Fax Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Scenarios for Internet fax message confirmation
	Author(s)	: G. Klyne
	Filename	: draft-ietf-fax-confirmation-scenarios-00.txt
	Pages		: 16
	Date		: 06-Apr-98
	
  The simple mode for Internet fax described in [1] does not provide
  positive confirmation of message delivery or disposition.  There is
  a widespread view that an important benefit of traditional fax [2]
  is the fact that it provides a delivery confirmation which is
  trusted by fax system users.

  This memo describes some of the options for message confirmation in
  Internet fax, taking account of the particular nature and goals of
  the application [3], with a view to informing the debate over what
  mechanisms should be used for this purpose.

Internet-Drafts are available by anonymous FTP.  Login with the username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address.  After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
	"get draft-ietf-fax-confirmation-scenarios-00.txt".
A URL for the Internet-Draft is:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-fax-confirmation-scenarios-00.txt

Internet-Drafts directories are located at:

	Africa:	ftp.is.co.za

(Continue reading)

Graham Klyne | 8 Apr 1998 01:43

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draft-ietf-fax-confirmation-scenarios-00.txt

This internet draft is an update of the copy I submitted to the list,
taking some account of comments at the IETF meeting last week.  The most
significant addition is Larry's scenario summary, around which significant
discussion was focused.

I shall be working on an update to the capabilities scenarios draft, but
this is unlikely to be submitted before the end of next week.

#g

------------
Graham Klyne

Larry Masinter | 8 Apr 1998 07:02

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text version of slides at IETF meeting

Internet Fax Working Group
Larry Masinter
April 1, 1998 (no jokes)

Documents to review
-fax-goals-: Terminology and Goals
-fax-eifax-: Extended Mode

draft-ietf-fax-goals-02
substantive issues
	align terminology with ITU F.Ifax (?)
	Do "levels" correspond to WG sentiments?
Editorial issues
	table of contents wrong

Why this document?
	Summarize years of discussion on WG mailing list
	What is the problem were trying to solve?
	When are we done?
	What kinds of solutions are acceptable?
	note: not tied to mail

Section by section
1: introduction
2: definitions and operational modes
3: goals
4: Operational goals
5: functional requirements
6: Security considerations

(Continue reading)

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