Graham Klyne | 1 Sep 15:56 1997
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ADDRESSING: Do not recommend "quoted-string"

The following was posted to the DRUMS mailing list.  It may have some
impact on our deliberations regarding the form of a fax address.

GK.
---

>X-Sender: jpalme <at> dsv.su.se (Unverified)
>Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 10:44:02 +0200
>To: drums <at> cs.utk.edu
>From: Jacob Palme <jpalme <at> dsv.su.se>
>Subject: Do not recommend "quoted-string"
>
>Proposed addition to draft-ietf-drums-msg-fmt-02.txt:
>
>The use of "quoted-string" is known to cause problems for some mailers,
>therefore mailers SHOULD not use quoted-strings in addr-specs over which
>they have control, but MUST of course accept quoted-string in all other
>addr-specs.
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Jacob Palme <jpalme <at> dsv.su.se> (Stockholm University and KTH)
>for more info see URL: http://www.dsv.su.se/~jpalme

------------
Graham Klyne
GK <at> ACM.ORG

Graham Klyne | 1 Sep 15:56 1997

RE: E.164 subaddressing

At 11:03 AM 8/29/97 -0400, Vance Shipley wrote:
>Richard Shockey writes:
>}  In all honesty and sincerity I have never heard of E.164... what is it and
>}  what is it actually used for, if anything?
>
>
>My apologies.  Let me explain.
>
[...]

Thank you for that background information.  I would like to put a
supplementary question (possibly dumb)...

Did Group 4 fax go any way to reconciling the difference/distinction
between "E.164 sub-addresses" (note quotes ;-) and "T.33 sub-addresses"?

GK.
---

Graham Klyne | 1 Sep 18:20 1997
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FW: Refining the scope of PINT's work

For information:

Some time ago there was a discussion in this list of how offramp billing
for Internet fax might work.

More recently there has been discussion of the need for a receiving fax
machine to send a confirmation (rather than hop-by-hop confirmation) which
may also raise the issue of who pays for any call needed to send a
confirmation message.

I have just noted that work of the recently-formed PINT WG may have a
bearing on this -- I excerpt a section of the message which carries this
implication.  I have left a fair amount of other detail from the message in
order to give some context.

GK.
---

>From: "Scott Petrack"<Scott_Petrack <at> vocaltec.com>
>To: pint <at> lists.research.bell-labs.com
>Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 16:53:36 +0200
>Subject: Refining the scope of PINT's work
>Sender: owner-pint <at> lists.research.bell-labs.com

[...]

>B. There seemed to be agreement that we had to give very precise
>definitions of the "example services" that are referred to in the charter.
>Here is a quick attempt at such definitions. I spend the longest time on
>the first service, and most of the fuzzy issues are addressed there. After
(Continue reading)

Graham Klyne | 1 Sep 22:27 1997
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draft-wing-smtp-session-00.txt

Dan,

I think I'm down to real nit-picking on this draft now, so a few trivial
points for you to consider...

1.  Abstract

This memo defines an extension to SMTP [RFC821] which provides a
mechanism for immediate message delivery over ESMTP, bypassing SMTP's
normal store-and-forward behavior.

>>>
I note that you are also citing a document from the new DRUMS
(work-in-progress) series: would it be appropriate to be consistently cite
the DRUMs work OR the original RFC 821/822 documents?
<<<

2.  Introduction

Historically, SMTP [RFC821, RFC822] and [SMTP-EXT] have been used for
store and forward delivery of messages.  This draft defines a new
transport mode for ESMTP delivery known as SESSION.  When SESSION is
used, the ESMTP server delivers the message before the ESMTP client
disconnects from it.

>>>
I note that you cite [RFC822], but as far as I can tell your draft stands
independently of the format of the messages that are transferred.
<<<

(Continue reading)

Graham Klyne | 2 Sep 07:16 1997
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Re: What's PINT

At 12:50 PM 9/1/97 -0500, Richard Shockey wrote:
>At 05:20 PM 9/1/97 +0100, you wrote:
>>For information:
>
>What is this group and what is the scope of its work?

I was afraid someone might ask me that ;-)

I'm not very clear, but it's something to do with the use of Internet
(type) networks to manipulate PSTN (circuit-switch style) network systems.
The WG itself seems to be in the process of defining exactly what issues it
is trying to address.

One of the terms they use, which I do not fully understand, is 'Intelligent
Network'.  This seems to be a reference to a new generation of
circuit-switch network which can behave in ways that are more complex than
a traditional circuit-switch (telephone) network.  I think they are looking
to define an Internet-carried protocol which can be used to coordinate the
actions of this 'Intelligent Network'.

I signed up to this working group as a 'lurker' sometime after I started
tracking the IETF FAX discussion list, as I figured that any group who were
looking at interactions between PSTN and the Internet might have some kind
of bearing on what Internet fax is trying to do.  I must confess to not
having a great understanding of that which they discuss.

GK.
---

------------
(Continue reading)

Graham Klyne | 2 Sep 07:16 1997
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draft-wing-smtp-capabilities-00.txt

Dan,

A few (mostly trivial) comments on your ESMTP capabilities identification
draft..

GK.
---

1.  Abstract

This document describes an extension to SMTP [RFC821] which provides a
mechanism for capabilities exchange so the sender knows the capabilities
of the ultimate recipient or the ESMTP server itself.

>>>
How about: "This document describes an extension to SMTP [RFC821] which
provides a mechanism for capabilities exchange so the sender of a message
can know selected capabilities of its ultimate recipient, or of the message
transmission path to that recipient" ?
<<<

2.  Introduction

This memo defines a mechanism to allow an ESMTP client to determine the
capabilities (such as viewers, word processors, and color support) and
preferences (such language) of a recipient, which allows the ESMTP
client to send a message in a format that is usable by the recipient.

>>>
"such language" -> "such as language" ?
(Continue reading)

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Re: ADDRESSING: Do not recommend "quoted-string"


On Mon, 1 Sep 1997 GK <at> ACM.ORG wrote:

> 
> >X-Sender: jpalme <at> dsv.su.se (Unverified)
> >Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 10:44:02 +0200
> >To: drums <at> cs.utk.edu
> >From: Jacob Palme <jpalme <at> dsv.su.se>
> >Subject: Do not recommend "quoted-string"
> >

Yes, it is one of the proposed additions, which however is still under 
strong discussion, as there are cases where you can ONLY generate quotes 
string. The reccomendation tries to minimize problems, not to forbid the 
use of "quoted-string". Examples:

   /c=gb/a=concert/p=Morrison Ltd./s=Sales/

if there is NOT a published MIXER mapping rule can only be converted into

   "/c=gb/a=concert/p=Morrison Ltd./s=Sales/" <at> somegateway

Jacob's proposal, thus, suggest "get a valid published MIXER mapping 
rule", but of not... no way.

> >Proposed addition to draft-ietf-drums-msg-fmt-02.txt:
> >
> >The use of "quoted-string" is known to cause problems for some mailers,
> >therefore mailers SHOULD not use quoted-strings in addr-specs over which
> >they have control, but MUST of course accept quoted-string in all other
(Continue reading)

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draft-ietf-fax-addressing-00.txt


Hallo,the complete ABNF definition for addresing is coming in the next 
message. 

In some points you will find sections marked with > in the first column.
Read them carefully as the include optional or choices to be defined by
the group. 

The definition is detailed, as it allows a number of possible extensions 
and defines a syntax for them. However it can scale down to minimal 
specification like:

                        /DD.fax=+3940226338 <at> faxgw

The reason for the "/DD." prefix is explained into the document, and it 
is needed to avoid absurd results in case a MIXER gateway is crossed.

Could we please try to focus on the > points to find answers for them?

More over, please note the document deals with address syntax, not with
semantics.

regards
Claudio
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Claudio Allocchio                          Claudio.Allocchio <at> elettra.trieste.it

tel: +39 40 3758523                        G=Claudio; S=Allocchio; O=elettra;
fax: +39 40 3758565                        P=Trieste; A=garr; C=it;

(Continue reading)

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draft-ietf-fax-addressing-00.txt


Network Working                                           C. Allocchio
Group                                                       GARR-Italy
INTERNET-DRAFT                                          September 1997
                                               Expires:     March 1998
                                File: draft-ietf-fax-addressing-00.txt

 
             Fax address format in e-mail services

Status of this Memo

This document is an Internet Draft.  Internet Drafts are working
documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF), its Areas,
and its Working Groups.  Note that other groups may also distribute
working documents as Internet Drafts.  Internet Drafts are draft
documents valid for a maximum of six months.  Internet Drafts may be
updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time.  It is
not appropriate to use Internet Drafts as reference material or to
cite them other than as a ``working draft'' or ``work in progress.''
Please check the I-D abstract listing contained in each Internet Draft
directory to learn the current status of this or any other Internet
Draft.

1. Introduction

   Since the very first e-mail to fax gateway objects appeared, a 
   number of different methods to specify a fax address into an
   e-mail address have been used by implementors. Two major objectives
   for this were
(Continue reading)

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multiple copies of draft-ietf-fax-addressing-00.txt


Hallo,
sorry to all of you who received multiple copies of the draft: actually 
only one copy was posted, but apparently it was sent out more than once 
from imc.irg mailer. My logs just state one copy sent successfully.

Sorry again.
Claudio

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Claudio Allocchio                          Claudio.Allocchio <at> elettra.trieste.it

tel: +39 40 3758523                        G=Claudio; S=Allocchio; O=elettra;
fax: +39 40 3758565                        P=Trieste; A=garr; C=it;

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Tue, 02 SEP 97 13:30:17 +0000
From: hsilbiger <at> exit109.com
To: Claudio.Allocchio <at> elettra.trieste.it
Subject: RE: draft-ietf-fax-addressing-00.txt

I received three identical copies of this document.
----------
From: 	Claudio Allocchio +39 40 3758523[SMTP:Claudio.Allocchio <at> elettra.trieste.it]
Sent: 	Tuesday, September 02, 1997 8:22 PM
To: 	ietf-fax <at> imc.org
Subject: 	draft-ietf-fax-addressing-00.txt


Gmane