Andrew Sullivan | 1 Oct 01:56 2010

Re: [dnsext] Progress on moving the mailing list

The only reason is the IETF convention. I don't expect namedroppers to disappear: when dnsext is finally
clubbed to death, we can revive the namedroppers list. But I'm willing to ask the secretariat for an
exception if people feel strongly. 

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
<ajs <at> shinkuro.com>

On 2010-09-30, at 17:48, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> Howdy,
> 
> Any strong reason it shouldn't be "namedroppers <at> ietf.org"?  That list
> name has a lot of history behind it, and having a consistent thread of
> conversation connected to the name, if not its host, seems to me worth it.
> An alias from dnsext <at> ietf.org to namedropper <at> ietf.org could be kept for
> those wanting the WG Name pointer.
> 
> Full disclosure:  I was briefly the list monkey at SRI who kept
> namedroppers <at> sri-nic
> up, and I am likely being nostalgic.
> 
> Ted
> 
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs <at> shinkuro.com> wrote:
>> Dear colleagues,
>> 
>> Some time ago, we said we were going to move the WG mailing list from
>> namedroppers <at> ops.ietf.org to dnsext <at> ietf.org.  This sort of fell off
>> the radar as it looked like the WG was running out of things to do & I
(Continue reading)

Tony Finch | 1 Oct 02:25 2010
Picon

Re: [dnsext] Progress on moving the mailing list

On 30 Sep 2010, at 22:48, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Any strong reason it shouldn't be "namedroppers <at> ietf.org"?  That list
> name has a lot of history behind it, and having a consistent thread of
> conversation connected to the name, if not its host, seems to me worth it.

+1

Tony.
--
f.anthony.n.finch  <dot <at> dotat.at>  http://dotat.at/

Donald Eastlake | 1 Oct 02:41 2010
Picon

Re: [dnsext] Progress on moving the mailing list

I thinkit should stay namedroppers.


Thanks,
Donald

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 7:56 PM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs <at> shinkuro.com> wrote:
The only reason is the IETF convention. I don't expect namedroppers to disappear: when dnsext is finally clubbed to death, we can revive the namedroppers list. But I'm willing to ask the secretariat for an exception if people feel strongly.

--
Andrew Sullivan
<ajs <at> shinkuro.com>

On 2010-09-30, at 17:48, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> Any strong reason it shouldn't be "namedroppers <at> ietf.org"?  That list
> name has a lot of history behind it, and having a consistent thread of
> conversation connected to the name, if not its host, seems to me worth it.
> An alias from dnsext <at> ietf.org to namedropper <at> ietf.org could be kept for
> those wanting the WG Name pointer.
>
> Full disclosure:  I was briefly the list monkey at SRI who kept
> namedroppers <at> sri-nic
> up, and I am likely being nostalgic.
>
> Ted
>
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs <at> shinkuro.com> wrote:
>> Dear colleagues,
>>
>> Some time ago, we said we were going to move the WG mailing list from
>> namedroppers <at> ops.ietf.org to dnsext <at> ietf.org.  This sort of fell off
>> the radar as it looked like the WG was running out of things to do & I
>> absurdly thought we might actually wind up or go back to sleep or
>> something.  But with the rechartering in motion, it seemed to me we
>> ought to make good on this.
>>
>> We've started the process, so the list dnsext <at> ietf.org has been created.
>>
>> At the moment, it has no members, and if you post to it your message
>> will be moderated (and then we'll reject it).
>>
>> Over the coming period, we will subscribe all the existing
>> namedroppers members to the dnsext <at> ietf.org list.  You will receive a
>> message when this happens.  If you don't want to receive dnsext mail
>> messages, then please unsubscribe then, or unsubscribe from
>> namedroppers now.
>>
>> We will ask the operators of the namedroppers list to put an alias
>> forwarding messaages to namedroppers instead to the dnsext list, and
>> not to accept new subscriptions to namedroppers.  You won't get
>> duplicate messages during the change over, and you won't lose mail to
>> the list.  There will probably be a short period when new messages to
>> the list are disallowed, and if you have filters that are using the
>> exiting namedroppers headers, you will need to update them.
>>
>> I will post another announcement in the future with firm dates for the
>> cutover.  I will give people ample notice of the cutover date so that
>> they may update their filters.  In the meantime, the mail address will
>> be dnsext <at> ietf.org and the RFC 2369 headers will follow the pattern of
>> all the other lists hosted in the IETF mail infrastructure.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> A
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Sullivan
>> ajs <at> shinkuro.com
>> Shinkuro, Inc.
>>
>>


Paul Vixie | 1 Oct 05:43 2010

Re: [dnsext] Progress on moving the mailing list

> From: Andrew Sullivan <ajs <at> shinkuro.com>
> Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 19:56:37 -0400
> 
> The only reason is the IETF convention. I don't expect namedroppers to
> disappear: when dnsext is finally clubbed to death, we can revive the
> namedroppers list. But I'm willing to ask the secretariat for an
> exception if people feel strongly.

i feel strongly.  it's always been namedroppers.  before there was an ietf
in its current, there was a namedroppers mailing list.  if ietf doesn't want
to run the namedroppers mailing list (by that name) others should so offer.

bmanning | 1 Oct 06:08 2010

Re: [dnsext] Progress on moving the mailing list

On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 05:21:35PM -0400, Andrew Sullivan wrote:
> Dear colleagues,
> 
> Some time ago, we said we were going to move the WG mailing list from
> namedroppers <at> ops.ietf.org to dnsext <at> ietf.org.  This sort of fell off
> the radar as it looked like the WG was running out of things to do & I
> absurdly thought we might actually wind up or go back to sleep or
> something.  But with the rechartering in motion, it seemed to me we
> ought to make good on this.
> 
> We've started the process, so the list dnsext <at> ietf.org has been created.
> 
> At the moment, it has no members, and if you post to it your message
> will be moderated (and then we'll reject it).
> 
> Over the coming period, we will subscribe all the existing
> namedroppers members to the dnsext <at> ietf.org list.  You will receive a
> message when this happens.  If you don't want to receive dnsext mail
> messages, then please unsubscribe then, or unsubscribe from
> namedroppers now.
> 
> We will ask the operators of the namedroppers list to put an alias
> forwarding messaages to namedroppers instead to the dnsext list, and
> not to accept new subscriptions to namedroppers.  You won't get
> duplicate messages during the change over, and you won't lose mail to
> the list.  There will probably be a short period when new messages to
> the list are disallowed, and if you have filters that are using the
> exiting namedroppers headers, you will need to update them.
> 
> I will post another announcement in the future with firm dates for the
> cutover.  I will give people ample notice of the cutover date so that
> they may update their filters.  In the meantime, the mail address will
> be dnsext <at> ietf.org and the RFC 2369 headers will follow the pattern of
> all the other lists hosted in the IETF mail infrastructure.
> 
> Best regards,
> A
> 

	I applaud this clean up. namedroppers, as a name, is an 
	ancient historical artifact, in the same vein as the end2end
	(e2e) list.  With increasing specialization, the original
	charter of namedroppers (to dicuss naming schemes) has been
	overcome by events in that pretty much all we talk about 
	is tweeks (the EXT) to the DNS protocol.  Its high time that
	we retired the old name and used a name that properly reflects
	the work that is being/planned for the DNS protocol ... perhaps

	dns-discuss <at> ietf.org  - general DNS discussion
	dnsext <at> ietf.org       - extentions to the DNS

	if there was a reason to retain "namedroppers" - it might properly
	be in the IRTF, where discussions on non-DNS naming architectures
	might properly take place.

	Or we could follow the e2e path, leaving the list intact, but moving
	all new discussion to the other list(s), like

		dnsop <at> 
		oarc <at> 
		dnssec-deployment <at> 
		etc...

--bill (my 0.02 Pf)

Olafur Gudmundsson | 1 Oct 16:45 2010

[dnsext] Fwd: NomCom 2010-2011: Call for Nominations extended to October 8


FYI

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: NomCom 2010-2011: Call for Nominations extended to October 8
Date: Thu, 30 Sep 2010 20:41:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: NomCom Chair <nomcom-chair <at> ietf.org>
To: IETF Announcement list <ietf-announce <at> ietf.org>

Hi Folks,

We have decided to extend the call for nominations for one more week
to allow further consideration by the community if there are sufficient
Willing Nominees, particularly for the Open IESG positions.  Nominations
are welcome through October 8 at 1700 Pacific Time.

Please take a moment and review the Open List of Willing Nominees for
each position and determine if you wish to submit any additional names
before we close nominations. In particular, we ask you to review the
IESG nominations where in some cases there are as few as 1 or 2
willing nominees.

Q:  Where is the list of open IETF position and job descriptions?

A:  The list of IETF open positions is found at
https://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/nomcom/10/

Q:  Where is the list of willing nominees?

A: The list of willing nominees for the IETF open positions is
available at https://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/nomcom/10/input/

Q:  How do I get a login to see the list of willing nominees?

A:  If you need a username/password it is very easy to obtain at
http://tools.ietf.org/

Just select "Get Passwd" from the left margin and it will take
you to the new login page.  Your User Name is your email address
and you can request a password at this page
http://trac.tools.ietf.org/newlogin

Q:  How do I enter a nomination?

A: There are several ways:

We prefer you enter a nomination by going to the following URL
https://wiki.tools.ietf.org/group/nomcom/10/nominate.

Note:  Be sure to select the correct position (e.g., APP, SEC, IAB,
etc.) from the pull down menu when you nominate someone.

Or send email to nomcom10 <at> ietf.org giving us the IETF posiiton,
full name and email address of the nominee.

Q:  Do we really need more nominations?

Well, that is up to you in the community.  Look at the list of
willing Nominees and make your own decision on whether to submit
a nomination.

Even if you think a willing incumbent is doing a very good
job and should be returned, NomCom needs to consider multiple
nominees to be prepared in the event one or more candidates
is unable to serve come next March and to ensure we have
chosen the best candidate.

Q:  Is this the last call for nominations?

A:  This will be the last and final call for all open positions.
Should NomCom not be able to select a qualified candidate for a
specific open position, a future call for that position only is
always possible.

Thank you,

Thomas Walsh
Chair, Nomcom 2010-2011
nomcom-chair <at> ietf.org
twalsh <at> juniper.net

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce <at> ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

Andrew Sullivan | 1 Oct 19:06 2010

Re: [dnsext] Progress on moving the mailing list

On Fri, Oct 01, 2010 at 03:43:37AM +0000, Paul Vixie wrote:
> i feel strongly.  it's always been namedroppers.  before there was an ietf
> in its current, there was a namedroppers mailing list.  if ietf doesn't want
> to run the namedroppers mailing list (by that name) others should so offer.

Would it be acceptable to have a namedroppers <at> ietf.org alias, or is it
necessary to create the list under the name namedroppers <at> ietf.org and
have an alias from dnsext <at> ietf.org?

If the latter, does anyone want to address Bill Manning's point that,
given that namedroppers has not always been the address for _this
working group's_ mailing list, reusing that list name for this WG
might be confusing?

A

--

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
ajs <at> shinkuro.com
Shinkuro, Inc.

Edward Lewis | 1 Oct 19:53 2010

Re: [dnsext] Progress on moving the mailing list

At 13:06 -0400 10/1/10, Andrew Sullivan wrote:

>Would it be acceptable to have a namedroppers <at> ietf.org alias, or is it

Why over engineer?  What's wrong with the current set up?

More appropriately, what current problem would a new set up solve? 
(Meaning, we have a lot of run-on threads, but that's not the problem 
caused by the mail list name.)

I'm not overly wedded to or sentimental about the name "namedroppers" 
but why change from it?   OTOH, I would get a chance to update my 
mail filters.  Joy.
--

-- 
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Edward Lewis
NeuStar                    You can leave a voice message at +1-571-434-5468

Ever get the feeling that someday if you google for your own life story,
you'll find that someone has already written it and it's on sale at Amazon?

Phillip Hallam-Baker | 1 Oct 20:00 2010
Picon

Re: [dnsext] Progress on moving the mailing list

The address namedroppers is hardwired in places as well

Sent from my iPhone

On 30 Sep 2010, at 17:48, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> Howdy,
> 
> Any strong reason it shouldn't be "namedroppers <at> ietf.org"?  That list
> name has a lot of history behind it, and having a consistent thread of
> conversation connected to the name, if not its host, seems to me worth it.
> An alias from dnsext <at> ietf.org to namedropper <at> ietf.org could be kept for
> those wanting the WG Name pointer.
> 
> Full disclosure:  I was briefly the list monkey at SRI who kept
> namedroppers <at> sri-nic
> up, and I am likely being nostalgic.
> 
> Ted
> 
> On Thu, Sep 30, 2010 at 2:21 PM, Andrew Sullivan <ajs <at> shinkuro.com> wrote:
>> Dear colleagues,
>> 
>> Some time ago, we said we were going to move the WG mailing list from
>> namedroppers <at> ops.ietf.org to dnsext <at> ietf.org.  This sort of fell off
>> the radar as it looked like the WG was running out of things to do & I
>> absurdly thought we might actually wind up or go back to sleep or
>> something.  But with the rechartering in motion, it seemed to me we
>> ought to make good on this.
>> 
>> We've started the process, so the list dnsext <at> ietf.org has been created.
>> 
>> At the moment, it has no members, and if you post to it your message
>> will be moderated (and then we'll reject it).
>> 
>> Over the coming period, we will subscribe all the existing
>> namedroppers members to the dnsext <at> ietf.org list.  You will receive a
>> message when this happens.  If you don't want to receive dnsext mail
>> messages, then please unsubscribe then, or unsubscribe from
>> namedroppers now.
>> 
>> We will ask the operators of the namedroppers list to put an alias
>> forwarding messaages to namedroppers instead to the dnsext list, and
>> not to accept new subscriptions to namedroppers.  You won't get
>> duplicate messages during the change over, and you won't lose mail to
>> the list.  There will probably be a short period when new messages to
>> the list are disallowed, and if you have filters that are using the
>> exiting namedroppers headers, you will need to update them.
>> 
>> I will post another announcement in the future with firm dates for the
>> cutover.  I will give people ample notice of the cutover date so that
>> they may update their filters.  In the meantime, the mail address will
>> be dnsext <at> ietf.org and the RFC 2369 headers will follow the pattern of
>> all the other lists hosted in the IETF mail infrastructure.
>> 
>> Best regards,
>> 
>> A
>> 
>> --
>> Andrew Sullivan
>> ajs <at> shinkuro.com
>> Shinkuro, Inc.
>> 
>> 
> 

Andrew Sullivan | 1 Oct 20:10 2010

Re: [dnsext] Progress on moving the mailing list

On Fri, Oct 01, 2010 at 01:53:32PM -0400, Edward Lewis wrote:
> Why over engineer?  What's wrong with the current set up?

The reasons to move the list we outlined some time ago, but it comes
down to the following:

- the list is hosted on a machine with volunteer admins

- it uses majordomo, the administration of which effectively requires
  shell access (so we need administrators to be available, and they're
  not always)

We've had several cases in the past where it has been difficult to
solve a problem because nobody with shell access was available to fix
it.  Moreover, certain things that are easy with mailman are hard with
majordomo.  Finally, the spam filtering on the ietf-managed list
systems seems to be a little bit better (there's a lot of spam in the
moderation queue).  Finally, adding people to the whitelist for the
list is one of those things that requires shell access, but I
understand IETF whitelists are linked across lists.

> I'm not overly wedded to or sentimental about the name "namedroppers"  
> but why change from it?

Since the mail list name has to change anyway (we're moving from
ops.ietf.org in any case), I figured it would be as well to conform to
the IETF convention for this.  But I've asked the ADs whether it's ok
to violate that convention.  One of them has already said he doesn't
care much.

A

--

-- 
Andrew Sullivan
ajs <at> shinkuro.com
Shinkuro, Inc.


Gmane