Re: [http-auth] HTTP-Auth BoF in Quebec City Postponed

On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 12:43 AM, HAYASHI, Tatsuya
<lef.mutualauth <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> The cut-off date of BOF proposal requests in IETF Taipei is coming soon.
> Taking account of the recent status of this list, I don't think we
> have a BOF in Taipei. However, I want to improve the authentication in
> the web too, so is there any intention to have a side meeting to
> clarify the scope and the problem?
>
> As a co-author of the problem statement draft by Yutaka Oiwa, I want
> the draft enhanced by other guys familiar with authentication.
> (We are updating a draft!)

We agreed at Quebec not to have a meeting at Taipei.  I thought we all
agreed that it would be counter-productive to have such a meeting with
a significant constituency absent.

What's changed since Quebec?

Nico
--

Re: [http-auth] HTTP-Auth BoF in Quebec City Postponed

On 10/4/11 12:55 PM, Nico Williams wrote:
> On Sat, Oct 1, 2011 at 12:43 AM, HAYASHI, Tatsuya
> <lef.mutualauth <at> gmail.com> wrote:
>> The cut-off date of BOF proposal requests in IETF Taipei is coming soon.
>> Taking account of the recent status of this list, I don't think we
>> have a BOF in Taipei. However, I want to improve the authentication in
>> the web too, so is there any intention to have a side meeting to
>> clarify the scope and the problem?
>>
>> As a co-author of the problem statement draft by Yutaka Oiwa, I want
>> the draft enhanced by other guys familiar with authentication.
>> (We are updating a draft!)
> 
> We agreed at Quebec not to have a meeting at Taipei.  I thought we all
> agreed that it would be counter-productive to have such a meeting with
> a significant constituency absent.
> 
> What's changed since Quebec?

We agreed not to hold a BoF. I see no particular harm in a little side
meeting if folks are interested.

Peter

--

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://stpeter.im/

New release of draft-oreirdan-rosenwald-ipv6mail-transition-01

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Re: APPs team review of draft-ietf-alto-reqs-11

Hi Ted,

I want just to let you know that the document authors have not forgotten
about this and are currently working on addressing the issues you
pointed out. However, I think I have to provide some context regarding
the point you raise below.

On 9/21/11 10:13 AM, Ted Hardie wrote:
> Thank you for your responses.  I believe that working with your AD on
> the next steps is appropriate.  As I
> said above, my personal view is that time spent on requirements
> documents once the protocol specification is done or well on its way may
> not be the best use of a WG's time.  How much effort you should spend on
> these clarifications is a matter for the WG and ADs to work through. 

When this draft was adopted in the early days of the working group, in
agreement with the AD and the proponents of the various solutions it was
decided to keep it alive till the solution specs reach a decent maturity
level. The decision was taken in SF, as you can see in the meeting notes
(that I did put together quite poorly, my bad, reflecting only part of
the long discussion we had):
http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/74/minutes/alto.html#reqs

Since then, the document has been basically used to keep track of the
discussion on most of the fundamental issues with the protocol, till
when the WG decided that the protocol was mature enough and the
requirements ready for being finalized. At that point, most of the
descriptive text was removed or rephrased in REQs speak, in order to
deliver what the charter required us to.

All in all, the document has been extremely useful, basically replacing
the issue tracker tool the WG -- despite trying quite hard -- has never
found a way to use effectively. The document has proved to be
extremely useful in archival sense of recording and tracking the
evolution of the ALTO protocol as it progressed in the WG and as new
capabilities, actions and use cases were raised. As such, I think
that this is an important piece of documentation in the ALTO evolution,
a lot of effort has been put in it and there is merit in refining and
publishing it.

--

-- 
Ciao,
Enrico

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Fwd: Fwd: Civil suit; ftp shutdown; mailing list shutdown

Forwarded to the IETF because we are also affected, and we may also be 
able to help out.
http://blog.joda.org/2011/10/today-time-zone-database-was-closed.html 
seems to have some more information.

Regards,    Martin.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Fwd: Civil suit; ftp shutdown; mailing list shutdown
Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 08:38:59 -0700
From: Deborah Goldsmith <goldsmit <at> apple.com>
To: Unicode Core List

Can we set up a temporary replacement mailing list and publicize it?

Debbie

Begin forwarded message:

> Resent-From: tz <at> elsie.nci.nih.gov
> From: "Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E]" <olsona <at> dc37a.nci.nih.gov>
> Subject: Civil suit; ftp shutdown; mailing list shutdown
> Date: October 6, 2011 8:16:02 AM PDT
> To: "'tz <at> elsie.nci.nih.gov'" <tz <at> lecserver.nci.nih.gov>
> Reply-To: tz <at> elsie.nci.nih.gov
>
> A civil suit was filed on September 30 in federal court in Boston; I'm a defendant; the case involves the
time zone database.
>
> The ftp server at elsie.nci.nih.gov has been shut down.
>
> The mailing list will be shut down after this message.
>
> Electronic mail can be sent to me at arthurdavidolson <at> gmail.com.
>
> I hope there will be better news shortly.
>
> 				--ado
>

Re: Fwd: Fwd: Civil suit; ftp shutdown; mailing list shutdown

On 7 October 2011 01:24, "Martin J. Dürst" wrote:

> Forwarded to the IETF because we are also affected, and we
> may also be able to help out.

Hi, so far I thought that the TZ database will be hosted by
IANA - same idea as for similar IANA registries such as the
charsets or the langtags.

Obviously there should be some kind of "expert" mailing list,
again the same idea as for similar IANA registries.  If the
old TZ mailing list was closed I guess the IETF could create
a new list.  Maybe somebody can donate their private archive
of the old list, but IIRC GMaNe already has a public archive.

The new list should be added to the "IETF non-WG" page, in
essence somebody enters the required info into a Web form
and picks a responsible AD for the confirmation.  If that AD
(Peter or Pete) confirmed it the IETF secretary adds the info
on the "non-WG list" page.  Fairly simple, but I have no idea
how it is supposed to work if the list does not yet exist.

With this ugly lawsuit business one of the I* Chairs has to
inform the legal counsel, because it might be a case for the
I* insurance.  (They are protected, including IAB, ADs, and
WG chairs; excluding authors.)

The TZ database is precious.  This problem should be tackled
by the IESG + Trust + IAB; trying it here is not good enough.

-Frank

Re: Fwd: Fwd: Civil suit; ftp shutdown; mailing list shutdown

[I sent this to Unicode (where people are concerned because many of them 
are involved with localization, date formats, and so on, which quickly 
involves time zones), but think it may be of interest here, too.]

In terms of practical matters, two points seem important to me:

First, to ask the judge for a temporary permission (there's a better 
legal term, but IANAL) to keep the database up until the law suit is 
settled (because the database is probably down now due to a temporary 
order from the judge to that effect) because of its high practical 
importance.

Second, what seems to be in dispute is data about old history. While 
this is important for some applications, in most applications, present 
and new data is much more important, so one way to avoid problems would 
be to publish only new data at some new place until the case is settled. 
That would mean that applications would have to be checked for whether 
they need the old data or not. Or to only publish diffs (which would be 
about new, present-day data not from the source under litigation).

Regards,   Martin.

On 2011/10/07 8:24, "Martin J. Dürst" wrote:
> Forwarded to the IETF because we are also affected, and we may also be
> able to help out.
> http://blog.joda.org/2011/10/today-time-zone-database-was-closed.html
> seems to have some more information.
>
> Regards, Martin.
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Fwd: Civil suit; ftp shutdown; mailing list shutdown
> Date: Thu, 06 Oct 2011 08:38:59 -0700
> From: Deborah Goldsmith <goldsmit <at> apple.com>
> To: Unicode Core List
>
> Can we set up a temporary replacement mailing list and publicize it?
>
> Debbie
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>> Resent-From: tz <at> elsie.nci.nih.gov
>> From: "Olson, Arthur David (NIH/NCI) [E]" <olsona <at> dc37a.nci.nih.gov>
>> Subject: Civil suit; ftp shutdown; mailing list shutdown
>> Date: October 6, 2011 8:16:02 AM PDT
>> To: "'tz <at> elsie.nci.nih.gov'" <tz <at> lecserver.nci.nih.gov>
>> Reply-To: tz <at> elsie.nci.nih.gov
>>
>> A civil suit was filed on September 30 in federal court in Boston; I'm
>> a defendant; the case involves the time zone database.
>>
>> The ftp server at elsie.nci.nih.gov has been shut down.
>>
>> The mailing list will be shut down after this message.
>>
>> Electronic mail can be sent to me at arthurdavidolson <at> gmail.com.
>>
>> I hope there will be better news shortly.
>>
>> --ado
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> apps-discuss <at> ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss
>
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Re: temporary timezone database home ...

Hi Robert,
At 21:47 06-10-2011, Robert Elz wrote:
>about that - if anyone is contacted by anyone who believes they should be
>on the list, but is no longer receiving messages, direct them to the iana
>website for list subscriptions.

https://mm.icann.org/mailman/listinfo/tz

>Second, regardless of this, the world's governments continue to adjust
>their view of their local timezones & summer time adjustments, so we
>need to continue updating the database (at least).   There are several
>updates that will be needed soon.
>
>For now, until someone else volunteers, I'm prepared to make the updates,

Thanks for volunteering.  As draft-lear-iana-timezone-database-04 has 
already been approved by the IESG for publication as a BCP, I suggest 
that the TZ mailing list reaches consensus for you to fulfill the 
role of TZ Coordinator.

Regards,
-sm  

Re: Fwd: Fwd: Civil suit; ftp shutdown; mailing list shutdown

Everyone:

As the co-author of the draft in question who is NOT a party to this
suit, let me say this:

1.  The authors are aware of the suit;
2.  The IESG is aware of the suit;
3.  ICANN and IANA is aware of the suit;
4.  The IASA is aware of the suit.
5.  Lawyers are involved.

Please give us just a little while to sort a response.

Eliot

On 10/7/11 5:08 AM, Frank Ellermann wrote:
> On 7 October 2011 01:24, "Martin J. Dürst" wrote:
>
>> Forwarded to the IETF because we are also affected, and we
>> may also be able to help out.
> Hi, so far I thought that the TZ database will be hosted by
> IANA - same idea as for similar IANA registries such as the
> charsets or the langtags.
>
> Obviously there should be some kind of "expert" mailing list,
> again the same idea as for similar IANA registries.  If the
> old TZ mailing list was closed I guess the IETF could create
> a new list.  Maybe somebody can donate their private archive
> of the old list, but IIRC GMaNe already has a public archive.
>
> The new list should be added to the "IETF non-WG" page, in
> essence somebody enters the required info into a Web form
> and picks a responsible AD for the confirmation.  If that AD
> (Peter or Pete) confirmed it the IETF secretary adds the info
> on the "non-WG list" page.  Fairly simple, but I have no idea
> how it is supposed to work if the list does not yet exist.
>
> With this ugly lawsuit business one of the I* Chairs has to
> inform the legal counsel, because it might be a case for the
> I* insurance.  (They are protected, including IAB, ADs, and
> WG chairs; excluding authors.)
>
> The TZ database is precious.  This problem should be tackled
> by the IESG + Trust + IAB; trying it here is not good enough.
>
> -Frank
> _______________________________________________
> apps-discuss mailing list
> apps-discuss <at> ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/apps-discuss
>
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Re: TimeZone (TZ) database (was: ...civil suit...)

just fyi/fwiw, Eliot gave an excellent preso on the TZ dbase at IETF-80 Prague..

   A Brief History of Time(Zones) and the TZ Database
   https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/80/slides/apparea-5.pdf

The I-D being mentioned is..

   https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-lear-iana-timezone-database

=JeffH