Vijay K. Gurbani | 26 Jan 16:29 2016

State of the WG

Folks: The mailing list has been awfully quiet.

Presently, we have 3 active I-Ds that are being tracked towards charter
fulfillment:

1. draft-ietf-alto-deployments is in its second WGLC.  The new WGLC ends
  on February 3, 2016.

2. draft-ietf-alto-incr-update-sse appears to be moving along and there
  do not seem to be any stop gap issues that we are aware of.  Authors,
  please inform the WG if there are.

3. draft-ietf-alto-multi-cost is also fairly mature.

It seems reasonable to move 2 and 3 ahead.

Then there are a number of independent submissions dating back to Sep-
Oct 2015 timeframe.  These have not been updated and nor has there been
much discussion on the mailing list.  Some of these submissions are
important for charter deliverables related to graph representation
formats.  Can the authors of the independent submissions kindly
share what their plans are with respect to the drafts?

This will help us gauge whether or not we should meet face-to-face in
Buenos Aires or have an interim meeting before it and meet face-to-face
in Berlin.

Note that while the final plans are still up in the air and subject
to change, there is a good chance that neither Jan or I will be able to
make it to Buenos Aires.  However, if a F2F meeting is desired, it is
(Continue reading)

Vijay K. Gurbani | 20 Jan 17:27 2016

Second WGLC for draft-ietf-alto-deployments-13

    [New email with appropriate subject to make it easier to search in
    the archives.]

All: Michael and Hans have merged draft-ietf-alto-deployments and
draft-seidel-alto-map-calculation into version -13.

Given the non-trivial (but important) changes in the draft, we will
issue a second WGLC for this work.

The WGLC for draft-ietf-alto-deployments-13 commences today and will
end on Wednesday, February 3, 2016.

Can Jan and I request the reviewers who had reviewed version -11 to
please look at version -13; Wendy Roome was one of them.  Wendy, can you
kindly review -13?

Other members of the WG are also urged to review the draft and post
comments on or before February 3, 2016.

Thank you,

- vijay
--

-- 
Vijay K. Gurbani, Bell Laboratories, Nokia
1960 Lucent Lane, Rm. 9C-533, Naperville, Illinois 60563 (USA)
Email: vkg <at> {bell-labs.com,acm.org} / vijay.gurbani <at> nokia.com
Web: http://ect.bell-labs.com/who/vkg/  | Calendar: http://goo.gl/x3Ogq

SCHARF, Michael (Michael | 20 Jan 09:21 2016
Picon

draft-ietf-alto-deployments-13

Hi all,

Based on a suggestion of the chairs I have looked into how to include parts of
draft-seidel-alto-map-calculation in draft-ietf-alto-deployments.

In general, draft-seidel-alto-map-calculation contains a useful and comprehensive deployment
example as well as some lessons learnt. As far as I can tell, the example described in
draft-seidel-alto-map-calculation seems realistic, and the resulting recommendations for ALTO
deployments could be backed by other solutions to calculate ALTO maps. Thus, I think it would be useful to
add significant parts of draft-seidel-alto-map-calculation to draft-ietf-alto-deployments, even
if that document has already passed WGLC.

The new version  draft-ietf-alto-deployments-13 has three main changes:

* There is a new Section 3.6. "Comprehensive Example for Map Calculation" taken from
draft-seidel-alto-map-calculation with only minor editorial modifications

* Section 3.2 has been updated in various paragraphs with additional material from
draft-seidel-alto-map-calculation, as far as applicable

* Hans Seidel has been added as co-author

Please have a look at the new version -13 and let us know any feedback on the changes.

I would like to ask the chairs to run a new WGLC in order to finally move this document forward.

Thanks

Michael

(Continue reading)

Vijay K. Gurbani | 19 Nov 22:25 2015

Update on ALTO deployment considerations and map calculation draft

Folks: A quick update.

You may recall that I had asked [1] the authors of draft-
ietf-alto-deployments and draft-seidel-alto-map-calculation to
determine whether portions from the latter draft could be included in
the former.

There seem to be reasonable agreement on the list that the inclusion
would be a good thing.  The question was whether we will issue a new
WGLC for the deployment draft if it includes text from the
map-calculation draft.

Michael Scharf (editor of the deployment draft) is taking the lead in
determining the shape of the inclusion.  He will coordinate with Hans
(author of the map calculation draft) and advise the working group
soon as to next steps.  I expect this to be soon (within days instead
of months).

As soon as we hear from Michael, we will move ahead with the deployment
draft.

[1] https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/wCdNIO6AxWUYns2A8z39oiXYBxU

Thanks,

- vijay
--

-- 
Vijay K. Gurbani, Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent
1960 Lucent Lane, Rm. 9C-533, Naperville, Illinois 60563 (USA)
Email: vkg <at> {bell-labs.com,acm.org} / vijay.gurbani <at> alcatel-lucent.com
(Continue reading)

Vijay K. Gurbani | 30 Oct 16:42 2015

Draft minutes from virtual interim

Folks: The draft minutes from the virtual interim are available
at

https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/27/alto/minutes/minutes-interim-2015-alto-1

Please take a look at them and let me and Jan know if there are any
discrepancies.

Thanks,

- vijay
--

-- 
Vijay K. Gurbani, Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent
1960 Lucent Lane, Rm. 9C-533, Naperville, Illinois 60563 (USA)
Email: vkg <at> {bell-labs.com,acm.org} / vijay.gurbani <at> alcatel-lucent.com
Web: http://ect.bell-labs.com/who/vkg/  | Calendar: http://goo.gl/x3Ogq

Wendy Roome | 29 Oct 18:28 2015

Logging ECS misses ...

In the interim meeting, Lyle mentioned logging ECS misses, and try to get
missing cost points.

How about taking that one step further, and log popular sources &
destinations, even if the server has cost data for them? E.g., suppose N
different clients request costs from endpoint X. That implies X is a
popular server, and the ALTO server should try to get cost data from X to
as many other endpoints as possible.

Which leads to data mining ECS queries. Eg, collect ({src-eps}, {dst-eps},
client-ep) tuples. From this we could find popular sources & destinations,
and detect clusters of ALTO-using clients.

Of course, that does raise security issues. Eg, someone could use that to
discover that computers in the office of (insert politician name here) do
ECS queries for known X-rated servers. This might discourage clients from
using ECS, and encourage them to use full cost maps instead.

	- Wendy Roome

Vijay K. Gurbani | 28 Oct 16:42 2015

ALTO deployment considerations and map calculation draft

Michael, Hans: Pursuant to our virtual meeting yesterday, I have been
thinking whether Hans' draft [1] has any input that can go into
Michael's deployment draft [2]?

Can I kindly request the authors to inform the working group if there
is any beneficial overlap from [1] that we may take into [2]?  I
realize that [2] has been through WGLC so I am not expecting
large-scale changes in it.  But if there is any deployment-related
experience from [1] that can be put into [2], we should do our due
diligence and make sure that we reflect that experience.

Thanks!

[1] http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-seidel-alto-map-calculation/
[2] http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-alto-deployments/

- vijay
--

-- 
Vijay K. Gurbani, Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent
1960 Lucent Lane, Rm. 9C-533, Naperville, Illinois 60563 (USA)
Email: vkg <at> {bell-labs.com,acm.org} / vijay.gurbani <at> alcatel-lucent.com
Web: http://ect.bell-labs.com/who/vkg/  | Calendar: http://goo.gl/x3Ogq

Wendy Roome | 27 Oct 19:37 2015

Why should ordinal costs be integers?

Here is a controversial question prompted by today's virtual meeting: Why
must ordinal costs be integers? Given that we do not require them to be
consecutive, and we do not require them to start with 1 (or 0), what is
the benefit to requiring them to be integers?

Note that JSON does not distinguish between integers and floating point,
and in the JSON libraries I've seen, numbers are always floating point.
When parsing JSON, libraries do not distinguish between 1 and 1.0. When
generating JSON, most libraries will generate 1, but a library could
generate 1.0.

I believe the difference between "numerical" and "ordinal" costs is in the
interpretation, not the format. Numerical costs have two properties
clients may find useful. First, numerical costs are scalable, while
ordinal costs are not. That is, suppose an ECS query returns the values
10, 11 and 100. If the costs are numerical, the client knows 10 is better
than 11 -- but not by much. And both are much better than 100. So the
client might randomly pick the cost 10 or cost 11 server. If the costs are
ordinal, the client knows 10 is better than 11, and 11 is better than 100.
But the client cannot tell whether 11 is close to 10, or close to 100, or
somewhere in the middle. So the client must select the cost 10 server.

The other property is that numerical costs are comparable between queries.
In our 10/11/100 example again, suppose that the client picked the server
with cost 11, and discovered that server was fast enough. Now suppose the
client sends another ECS query an hour later, for a different set of
servers. If the costs are numerical, the client can use its previous
experience to decide that any server with cost 11 or less is acceptable.
If costs are ordinal, the client cannot; the costs in the first query
cannot be compared to those in the second query.
(Continue reading)

Vijay K. Gurbani | 27 Oct 19:04 2015

Thank you for a productive meeting

Folks: Thank you for a productive meeting today.  The agenda was full
but we managed to plough through it.

There were a number of important outcomes that I will summarize on the
list through the minutes this week.

Thanks to the May and Richard Yang who took notes.  Please send me the
notes at your earliest convenience.

Cheers,

- vijay
--

-- 
Vijay K. Gurbani, Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent
1960 Lucent Lane, Rm. 9C-533, Naperville, Illinois 60563 (USA)
Email: vkg <at> {bell-labs.com,acm.org} / vijay.gurbani <at> alcatel-lucent.com
Web: http://ect.bell-labs.com/who/vkg/  | Calendar: http://goo.gl/x3Ogq

Vijay K. Gurbani | 26 Oct 22:01 2015

Note takers, take 2

So, no one beat a path to our doors yet.

I do need two note takers.  Don't disappear, please volunteer :-)

There will be a jabber room.  Folks who want to "queue up to the mic"
may want to indicate their queueing through jabber.

Room: alto, Server: jabber.ietf.org

I will monitor the jabber channel.

Cheers,

- vijay
--

-- 
Vijay K. Gurbani, Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent
1960 Lucent Lane, Rm. 9C-533, Naperville, Illinois 60563 (USA)
Email: vkg <at> {bell-labs.com,acm.org} / vijay.gurbani <at> alcatel-lucent.com
Web: http://ect.bell-labs.com/who/vkg/  | Calendar: http://goo.gl/x3Ogq

Vijay K. Gurbani | 26 Oct 20:23 2015

Reminder: Virtual interim meeting on Tue, Oct 27 2015

Folks: Just a quick reminder for the virtual interim meeting.

Meeting logistics at
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/alto/9gmWXQKDlBDIVbKLBf6pGdm4Cq0

Agenda and slides at
https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/interim/2015/10/27/alto/proceedings.html

To save time, if I can have a couple of note takers that will be great.
Send me and Jan email if you are interested.

Thanks,

- vijay
--

-- 
Vijay K. Gurbani, Bell Laboratories, Alcatel-Lucent
1960 Lucent Lane, Rm. 9C-533, Naperville, Illinois 60563 (USA)
Email: vkg <at> {bell-labs.com,acm.org} / vijay.gurbani <at> alcatel-lucent.com
Web: http://ect.bell-labs.com/who/vkg/  | Calendar: http://goo.gl/x3Ogq


Gmane