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pandkrichards-sFbbPxZDHXw0n/F98K4Iww@public.gmane.org | 1 Nov 2007 01:21
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RE: [ozscrabble] RE: [uk-scrabble] WYSC motion for WESPA BGM

Shin

I think it would be reasonable to suppose that, if WESPA decreed that WYSC
be always held in the first half of the year of a WSC, for intance, that
the Youth Subcommittee consider changing the cutoff date to 30th June
instead of 31st December,  However, I cannot speak for the committee as to
how they would decide on that issue.

Karen :)

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Y L Shin ylshin@...
Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:19:29 -0000
To: world-scrabble@..., ozscrabble@...
Subject: [ozscrabble] RE: [uk-scrabble] WYSC motion for WESPA BGM

Resend

  _____  

From: uk-scrabble@...
[mailto:uk-scrabble@...] On
Behalf Of Y L Shin
Sent: 31 October 2007 9:16 AM
To: 'world scrabble'
Cc: 'ozscrabble'; 'UK-Scrabble'
Subject: RE: [uk-scrabble] WYSC motion for WESPA BGM

I hope the WESPA main committee and the YSC of WESPA would seriously ponder
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Y L Shin | 1 Nov 2007 08:41

RE: RE: [ozscrabble] RE: [uk-scrabble] WYSC motion for WESPA BGM

Karen

Are you really serious that WESPA would decreed as to when the WYSC could be
held and that the YSC would then consider changing the cutoff date in
response to that decree? It is absurb to suggest that WESPA could dictate as
to when the WYSC must be held (always?) as different country hosting the
event could hold it in different months (eg, some in June and others in
August), subject/due to local conditions.  What happens next? More decrees
(wrong term anyway!)?

I believe that the YSC has the freedom to make any appropriate decision
under its charge. The only sensible (and flexible) rule would be that the
participants must be under 18 (Youth age being defined in the Subcommitte
report dated 31/12/2005) throughout the duration of the event. Why keep on
changing the cut-off dates arbitarily and still not getting the decision
right?

Shin

> -----Original Message-----
> From: world-scrabble@... 
> [mailto:world-scrabble@...] On Behalf Of 
> pandkrichards@...
> Sent: 01 November 2007 12:21 AM
> To: ylshin@...;
world-scrabble@...; 
> ozscrabble@...
> Subject: [world-scrabble] RE: [ozscrabble] RE: [uk-scrabble] 
> WYSC motion for WESPA BGM
>
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Hubert Wee | 1 Nov 2007 13:13
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Looking for games on 8/11

Hi all,  
             I will be arriving in Mumbai on Thursday and should be in Hotel Ascot, 1.2 km from Taj from 12pm onwards.
Looking for a game or three if anyone is interested

Private replies please.

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Stewart Holden | 1 Nov 2007 13:28
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Sixes

It had been my intention for a long time to read through all the 
six-letter words at some point, because even though they aren't 
generally useful they do come up every so often and whenever I put my 
games through Quackle to see what I've missed it's often a six I've 
never seen before. I should say that my knowledge of fives isn't by any 
means perfect and there are still some fours I'm unsure of or just plain 
don't know, I was really just looking for a way to learn something 
different for a change. So this week I finally got around to asking 
Zyzzyva for a straight list of all 22,000 sixes and started reading 
through them.

It took around 12-15 hours to go through reading most of them with 
definitions and making a note of the few I want to learn, which are 
mainly useful dump-type words (e.g. COYPOU, FULVID, NIGIRI), the JQXZ 
sixes I didn't know (e.g. JANDAL, PEROXO, ZONOID) and a few others that 
were just too much fun to leave out (the marvellous FOGDOG springs to mind).

Having done it, I'm curious to know how much time other people have ever 
spent looking at sixes. Are they deemed a complete waste of effort or 
are they underrated? How many other people have been through them all 
once at some time in the past? How often do you find unusual sixes 
coming up in tournament games when they are not hooked with S to make a 
bonus?

Stewart

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Clive Spate | 1 Nov 2007 13:51
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Re: Sixes

In message <4729C659.6070701@...>, Stewart Holden
<stewart@...> writes
>
>    It had been my intention for a long time to read through all the 
>    six-letter words at some point, because even though they aren't 
>    generally useful they do come up every so often and whenever I put 
>    my 
>    games through Quackle to see what I've missed it's often a six I've 
>    never seen before. I should say that my knowledge of fives isn't by 
>    any 
>    means perfect and there are still some fours I'm unsure of or just 
>    plain 
>    don't know, I was really just looking for a way to learn something 
>    different for a change. So this week I finally got around to asking 
>    Zyzzyva for a straight list of all 22,000 sixes and started reading 
>    through them.
>
>    It took around 12-15 hours to go through reading most of them with 
>    definitions and making a note of the few I want to learn, which are 
>    mainly useful dump-type words (e.g. COYPOU, FULVID, NIGIRI), the 
>    JQXZ 
>    sixes I didn't know (e.g. JANDAL, PEROXO, ZONOID) and a few others 
>    that 
>    were just too much fun to leave out (the marvellous FOGDOG springs 
>    to mind).
>
>    Having done it, I'm curious to know how much time other people have 
>    ever 
>    spent looking at sixes. Are they deemed a complete waste of effort 
>    or
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Stewart Holden | 1 Nov 2007 13:55
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Re: Sixes

Clive Spate wrote:
> Wasn't OTITIS useful recently ?

Good point.

Actually that came up before I started going through all the sixes and 
is unrelated to my decision to do it. I started going through them last 
Friday and had only read down to C when I played at Lincoln on Saturday, 
plonking down ADJIGOS against Mike Whiteoak in the second game having 
learnt it about 24 hours earlier. I love it when that happens  :)

Stewart

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David Sutton | 1 Nov 2007 17:49

Re: Sixes

In response to Stewart's interesting question, I confess to having spent 
quite a lot of
time on the sixes, just because I like knowing words and regard their
potential utility in Scrabble as somewhat incidental. I have no doubt that I
would have progressed somewhat faster in the game had I spent that time on
getting the high probability sevens and eights really nailed down so I 
didn't
make stupid oversights like missing the anagram of ACDINRU recently, but
there you go: you pays your money and you makes your choice. So, with the
proviso that serious players really need to get their priorities straight in
a way that I fail to do, I would say that yes, sixes do come up surprisingly
often if you know them, particularly as dump words for poor racks or when
stretching out to that triple word square from six squares away. For
example, I see from my records that in recent games I have had occasion to
play FLEMIT, PIRNIT, AGONAL, EPHEBI, VERLIG, TAUHOU, IRITIS, AOUDAD, TOWERY,
ULITIS, FAVELL, VIMINA and TAIHOA. Of course, I might have been missing
better plays!

All this leads one to an interesting speculation as to how many top players
have approached the game in the spirit of learn all the words first and
learn the important ones better later, and how many have simply concentrated
on the important ones first and added the rest later, if ever. Romantics
versus realists, as it were. My heart is with the romantics, but my money's
on the realists.

-- David Sutton

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John O'Laughlin | 1 Nov 2007 19:01
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Re: Re: Sixes

On 11/1/07, David Sutton <David.J.Sutton@...> wrote:
>  All this leads one to an interesting speculation as to how many top players
>  have approached the game in the spirit of learn all the words first and
>  learn the important ones better later, and how many have simply concentrated
>  on the important ones first and added the rest later, if ever. Romantics
>  versus realists, as it were. My heart is with the romantics, but my money's
>  on the realists.

I have more than a small interest in words for their own sake, and
where has caused me to deviate from what playability numbers (these
are based on frequency of bestness and other factors in millions of
Quackle vs Quackle games) would tell me has been that I overstudy
nine-letter words and unusual (mostly non-TWL) bingos. Sixes do not
quite have the bang for the buck that the other 2-8 letter words do,
but ignoring them is clearly not the right or realist thing to do.
Someone who knows the top 10,000 sevens should also know the top 3,000
sixes, but I think few expert players study them quite that much. I
don't think my concept of playability has been used much outside of
North America, and I mention it now because it's especially nice for
five and six letter words, where no other ordering is very useful.
Learning them by descending probability as one would bingos is likely
worse than doing them alphabetically or randomly. Starting with JQXZ
and vowel dumps is very much the right idea (all of the top 100 on my
list have one of JQXZ or four vowels), but my list is better and the
only way to go once you get past the basics:

http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~o-laughl/collins/all/all06.txt

I know it would be easier to study this way if it were supported in
Zyzzyva, and Michael Thelen has told me that he will find a way to
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busker221-24jMwgp+fRTvnOemgxGiVw@public.gmane.org | 2 Nov 2007 12:36
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WSC tile-drawing rule

Below are playing rules 4.7.2 and 4.7.3 as they appear on the WSC website
currently. I have two questions:

i) Unless I'm not reading it correctly, I don't understand how there is a
substantive difference between the opponent and the player discovering the
overdraw (in which case why are there two separate rules?).

ii) What on earth does the last sentence of 4.7.3 mean?

Cheers
Chris

4.7.2.If a player notices that s/he has drawn more than the correct number
of tiles then the player must announce it and the timer is neutralised.
Then,

    * if no new tile has touched the playerÂ’s rack, the newly drawn tiles
are placed face down on the table and the opponent selects excess tiles,
turns them face up and puts them in the bag.
    * if any new tile has touched the playerÂ’s rack, all tiles on the rack
and all newly drawn tiles are placed face down on the table and the
opponent selects excess tiles, turns them face up and puts them in the bag.

           
4.7.3.If it is the opponent who notices that a player has drawn more than
the correct number of tiles then the timer must be neutralised. If no
overdrawn tile has been added to the rack, the overdrawn tiles are placed
face down on the table and the opponent selects the excess tiles and
returns the excess tiles to the bag. If any overdrawn tile has been added
to the rack, all tiles on the rack, together with all overdrawn tiles, are
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Stewart Holden | 2 Nov 2007 15:55
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Re: WSC tile-drawing rule

busker221@... wrote:
> Below are playing rules 4.7.2 and 4.7.3 as they appear on the WSC website
> currently. I have two questions:
> 
> i) Unless I'm not reading it correctly, I don't understand how there is a
> substantive difference between the opponent and the player discovering the
> overdraw (in which case why are there two separate rules?).
> 
> ii) What on earth does the last sentence of 4.7.3 mean?

I queried this with Amy Byrne this morning.

i) There is currently no difference, as you say. Some kind of difference 
in penalty was being considered but has not been implemented, hence the 
slightly repetitive wording of the rules at the moment.

ii) This is a typo which has been corrected in the latest version 
emailed to Allan Simmons yesterday. Remove the final phrase 'or does 
opponent look at the whole rack' and it makes more sense.

Cheers,

Stewart

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