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Maisnestce | 1 Jan 2006 19:58
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18C2C rules query

In 18C2C, a merged company has two "shells", each of which has some trains, 
and each of which has some ordinary tokens and possibly a destination token 
deployed on the map.  It's unclear from the rule book precisely how the trains 
interact with the tokens.  From the fact that tokens undeployed at the time of 
merging are combined into one set, it is possible to draw some inferences.

I think it is the case that a train on one shell treats the ordinary tokens 
from both shells equally--the "wrong" ones don't block routes and in fact the 
only token on a route can be a "wrong" token.  The only way a "right" token 
differs from a "wrong" token is that a "right" destination token at one end of a 
route doubles the value of the city, whereas a "wrong" destination token 
doesn't.

Am I playing incorrectly?

Steve Thomas         maisnestce <at> a...

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Maisnestce | 1 Jan 2006 20:00
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Re: An 1854 question

Lou Jerkich wrote:

> Although the rules clearly state that split shares and bank pool shares
> don't pay dividends to their corporation, the rules don't seem to say
> anything about unsold Initial Offering shares.  I suspect that the company
> also receives no dividend cash for Initial Offering shares.  Is my surmise
> correct?

Yes.

Steve Thomas         maisnestce <at> a...

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mpcoyne | 2 Jan 2006 13:18
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Re: 18C2C rules query

That sounds right to me, from how I remember playing the game. Note that you can still use a "wrong"
destination token as a regular token for the purpose of determining whether a run is legal, you just don't
get to double its value as you would if the train were running from the "right" shell.

-----Original Message-----
From: Maisnestce@...
To: 18xx@...
Sent: Sun, 1 Jan 2006 13:58:19 EST
Subject: [18xx] 18C2C rules query

In 18C2C, a merged company has two "shells", each of which has some trains, 
and each of which has some ordinary tokens and possibly a destination token 
deployed on the map.  It's unclear from the rule book precisely how the trains 
interact with the tokens.  From the fact that tokens undeployed at the time of 
merging are combined into one set, it is possible to draw some inferences.

I think it is the case that a train on one shell treats the ordinary tokens 
from both shells equally--the "wrong" ones don't block routes and in fact the 
only token on a route can be a "wrong" token.  The only way a "right" token 
differs from a "wrong" token is that a "right" destination token at one end of a 

route doubles the value of the city, whereas a "wrong" destination token 
doesn't.

Am I playing incorrectly?

Steve Thomas         maisnestce <at> a...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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John Desmond | 2 Jan 2006 16:41

OT: Model Railroading for Cats


Salutations, gentlefolk,

You may wish to check out the Small Layout Scrapbook at
  http://carendt.com/scrapbook/page30/index.html

and view the plans of a layout especially designed to entertain the 
family feline.

Then again, you may not ;-)

Happy New Year, everyone !

Yours, John Desmond

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jakeprescott18xx | 2 Jan 2006 20:09
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1829 Mainline

I have played 3 games with my Christmas present and note that the 
copyright of 1829 Mainline is 1999 according to the parts list.  
However despite the length of time getting to the games shop there 
seem to be a couple of items not mentioned in the rules -
What is the white counter for? - One could suppose that it is meant 
to be used for marking the number of operational rounds [between 
share dealing rounds] BUT there is nowhere on the board for it to go!
There are three hexags [I prefer hexes as an abbreviation, myself] 
that are marked GWR, LNWR and Midland - Perhaps they are so marked as 
to imply that only the appropriate company is allowed to lay a yellow 
tile on such a space.
One player started the NER at the beginning of his turn and having 
laid [as a free move according to the rules] a yellow 115 tile 
connecting to York he continued the turn by laying southwards yellow 
tile 9, yellow tile 4 to Scunthorpe [paying £40], yellow tile 4 to 
Lincoln, yellow tile 4 to Boston, yellow tile 58 to Peterborough, 
yellow tile 58 to Kings Lynn, yellow tile 8, yellow tile 4 to 
Ipswich, through Colchester, yellow tile 4 to Chelmsford and finally 
used the sharp bend of tile 2 through St Albans to LONDON.  He then 
claimed a bonuses amounting to £200 for all the towns thus connected 
for the first time. Is this in accordance with the rules?

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jakeprescott18xx | 2 Jan 2006 20:15
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Re: 1829 Mainline

 claimed a bonuses amounting to £200 for all the towns thus connected 
> for the first time. Is this in accordance with the rules?

Whoops, for above read bonuses of £210!

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SMITH, Jon | 3 Jan 2006 11:56

RE: 1829 Mainline

I'm pretty much an 18xx newbie - Played 1829 in the dim and distant past;
1830 on the computer a few times and a few games recently at my FLGS (1825U2
and 18Scan).

I played a few solitaire games of 1829ML over the Christmas hols - and
really enjoyed it. Also played a 2 player 1825U2 and got stuffed again - in
a very aggressive game with my brother - although not by so much this time.

* The white counter is the turn marker - like 1825U2 - it is there - but
there is no space on the board for it. 
* The buff (grubby yellow) board hexes with the companies in are reserved
for those companies in 1825 - so played it the same way.
* Yes - you can build huge tracks - In one game I built from Preston to
Glasgow in one turn forming the WCML - 350 for a 4E or 700 for a 4+4E.
* And yes - that is the bonus income - which can be pretty huge if you are
lucky.

It played pretty well solitaire - although the limited bank was easy to
break in the two games I played - Glasgow (90), Liverpool (70), Manchester
(70) and London (120) = 350 on the West Coast mainline - get to 4+4Es -
that's £700 - only takes three companies sharing this route to smash the
bank in one operating round! I guess I was lucky in initial share
distribution on the first game - bank broken after 6 share dealing rounds -
but it was great fun.

The improved quality of the tiles is excellent. Had the usual problem with
the plastic discs - but I replaced them with 5x15mm disks with sticky labels
with abbreviations matching the shares.

I think the biggest problem I had was remembering to collect the bonus
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jakeprescott18xx | 4 Jan 2006 01:34
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Re: 1829 Mainline

--- In 18xx@..., "SMITH, Jon" <jon.m.smith <at> a...> wrote:

> break in the two games I played - Glasgow (90), Liverpool (70), 
Manchester
> (70) and London (120) = 350 on the West Coast mainline - get to 
4+4Es -

Since the highest paying "ordinary" stations are silver tiles BGM (70) 
or LIV (70), how do you reckon London is worth (120)? Surely this 
should be only (100)!
That makes Glasgow - Manchester - Liverpool - London worth (330) for a 
4E and double that (660)for a 4+4E.

You can't say that London is worth Glasgow + (30) since Glasgow is NOT 
an "ordinary" station.

Also when we played we found that there were very few mountain hexags 
at (100) a go that any company could afford to lay yellow tiles on so 
the WCML was just a pipe dream.

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Charlie Wilson | 4 Jan 2006 10:00
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Re: Re: 1829 Mainline

<snip>

> Since the highest paying "ordinary" stations are silver tiles BGM (70)
> or LIV (70), how do you reckon London is worth (120)? Surely this
> should be only (100)!
> That makes Glasgow - Manchester - Liverpool - London worth (330) for a
> 4E and double that (660)for a 4+4E.
>
> You can't say that London is worth Glasgow + (30) since Glasgow is NOT
> an "ordinary" station.
>

Actually Jon's IS the correct interpretation. When assessing the value of
the 'bonus' cities you calculate the value of the bonus city on the route
with the lowest bonus first.  For the next one you use the highest value
city on the route as calculated at that point.  Thus if York (-10 IIRC as I
do not have a copy to hand) is in the run you would use an ordinary city but
if Glasgow (+20) were the first (as in the WCML run) you would use Glasgow
at 90.  Hence London in Jon's WCML would be worth 120.  The rules could be
interpreted either way but I have checked with Mr Tresham on this point.

Take care
Charlie Wilson [the bearded one] (:-{)}

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SMITH, Jon | 4 Jan 2006 11:31

RE: Re: 1829 Mainline

<snip>

Also when we played we found that there were very few mountain hexags 
at (100) a go that any company could afford to lay yellow tiles on so 
the WCML was just a pipe dream.

</snip>

Remember I was playing the solitaire game - so competition was not an issue
- as for making money...

The Lancashire and Yorkshire is very useful here - base in Preston upgraded
to green (30) + Liverpool and Manchester to grey (at 70 each) - a cheap 3
train - and use the L&YR to make money (take the money and run - 3 operating
rounds gives you £510 - it costs £440 to get to Glasgow from Preston (5 x
£80 + 1 x £40) - means that you can get a lot of cash pretty cheaply. The
generous 1825 and 1829ML stock market allows you to invest more money in
companies than in the 1830s. In that example I had 4 companies operating -
LNWR, Midland (I think), L&YR and GWR - all running through Manchester and
Liverpool!

As solitaire versions of games go - I thoroughly enjoyed it (neatly
answering my own question from ages ago :o))

Jon :o)

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