omd | 24 Apr 00:31 2015
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DIS: Re: BUS: A Triumphant Return

On Thu, Apr 23, 2015 at 6:28 PM, omd <c.ome.xk <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Sean Hunt <scshunt <at> csclub.uwaterloo.ca> wrote:
>> I would like to become a player at this time, even though I cannot do so by
>> announcement.
>
> I too intend to become a player at this time.

For clarity, I am already a player and so cannot "become" a player,
but that is the magic formula for registering, which is less directly
defined.  One may wonder whether the Registrar is required to include
this registration in eir reports in the event I deregister (becoming a
former player).

Sean Hunt | 23 Apr 08:34 2015
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DIS: Emails suck. Long live emails!

H. Rulekeepor, do you have a website with the latest copy of the rules somewhere?

-scshunt
Kerim Aydin | 23 Apr 00:21 2015

Re: DIS: Re: BUS: political season begins


On Wed, 22 Apr 2015, Alex Smith wrote:
> On Wed, 2015-04-22 at 15:13 -0700, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> > On Wed, 22 Apr 2015, Alex Smith wrote:
> > > CFJ: The recently submitted proposal "Succession" is pending.
> > > 
> > > Arguments: The current wording of rule 2445 is "The holder of an office
> > > CAN make a proposal pending; e can do this a number of times each Agoran
> > > week not exceeding the spending power of that office." G. made two
> > > proposals pending this week, and doesn't hold an office with spending
> > > power 2. If we'd attached pending to offices, this would make sense, but
> > > atm it's attached to officeholdors, and that makes the existing
> > > precedents potentially inapplicable.
> > 
> > Actually, I'm Rulekeepor which *does* have a spending power of 2...
> 
> Oh right. In that case, I guess there's some argument about whether it
> still works if you specify the wrong office, but I don't think this CFJ
> would decide that.
> 
> I withdraw this CFJ.

Here were my messages, I did get the offices "wrong" in that sense:

> I submit the following proposal, Wordless, AI-1, and pend it as
> Referee:
> [...]
> I submit the following proposal, Succession, AI-2, and pend it
> as Arbitor:
> [...]

Kerim Aydin | 23 Apr 00:13 2015

DIS: Re: BUS: political season begins


On Wed, 22 Apr 2015, Alex Smith wrote:
> CFJ: The recently submitted proposal "Succession" is pending.
> 
> Arguments: The current wording of rule 2445 is "The holder of an office
> CAN make a proposal pending; e can do this a number of times each Agoran
> week not exceeding the spending power of that office." G. made two
> proposals pending this week, and doesn't hold an office with spending
> power 2. If we'd attached pending to offices, this would make sense, but
> atm it's attached to officeholdors, and that makes the existing
> precedents potentially inapplicable.

Actually, I'm Rulekeepor which *does* have a spending power of 2...

-G.

Kerim Aydin | 22 Apr 01:48 2015

DIS: Re: [Rulekeepor] Short Logical Ruleset


On Tue, 21 Apr 2015, Kerim Aydin wrote:
> THE SHORT LOGICAL RULESET

Generated with new script from FLR file --- should fix whitespace issues,
but checks very welcome!  -G.

Luis Ressel | 21 Apr 20:46 2015
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DIS: Re: BUS: Re: OFF: [Tailor] Distribution of proposals 7738-39

On Tue, 21 Apr 2015 16:22:12 +0200
Jonatan Kilhamn <jonatan.kilhamn <at> gmail.com> wrote:

> I doubt that this message is especially relevant to the Tailor, as
> the tag implies.

Oops :)

--
aranea

omd | 21 Apr 08:35 2015
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DIS: Re: BUS: political season begins

On Tue, Apr 21, 2015 at 1:21 AM, Edward Murphy <emurphy42 <at> zoho.com> wrote:
> Election Frequency (AI = 2, please)
>
> Amend Rule 2154 (Election Procedure) by replacing this text:
>
>       a) by announcement, if e is the IADoP, if the office has been
>          deputised for within the past two weeks, or if no election
>          has been initiated for the office either since the last time
>          a player won the game or within the past 90 days;
>
> with this text:
>
>       a) by announcement, if e is the IADoP, if the office has been
>          deputised for within the past two weeks, if no election has
>          ever been initiated for the office, or if a player has won
>          the game and/or at least 90 days have elapsed since the last
>          time an election was initiated for the office;

I read this repeatedly and don't understand what it changes.

Kerim Aydin | 20 Apr 18:24 2015

DIS: wording question


Opinions sought: how to phrase the following correctly?

(in a power-3 rule)
    Winning is Secured, except as explicitly permitted in 
    Erratic Rules.

(does this successfully give power-1 Erratic rules the ability
to define working winning methods while blocking others?  
Better phrasing?)

-G.

Luis Ressel | 19 Apr 22:58 2015
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DIS: Re: OFF: [IADoP] Metareport

You might want to have a look at the IADoP report I prepared for my
planned deputisation, see below.

I've fixed the spurious misalignments, added the Agoran Newspaper in
the list of reports and added a column with the spending power of the
various offices which you're supposed to track.

-------
Offices and Reports

Date of this report: Sun 19 Apr 15
Date of last report: Sat 28 Mar 15

Rule  Office          SP  Holder        Since      Last Election
----------------------------------------------------------------
 991  Arbitor          1  G.            15 Oct 14   7 Apr 14
2137  Assessor         1  G.            11 Feb 15  12 Jul 14
2437  Dungeon Master~  1  G.            26 Jan 15  30 Oct 14
 649  Herald           1  G.            12 Jan 15  30 Oct 14
2138  IADoP*           1  Murphy        11 Nov 14  30 Oct 14
2440  King Azaz        1  (vacant)      13 Apr 15    never
2423  Prime Minister   2  Henri         11 Nov 14  30 Oct 14
1607  Promotor         4  aranea        26 Oct 14  13 Jul 14
2426  Referee          1  G.             7 Jan 15  21 Dec 14
2139  Registrar        1  woggle        30 Aug 14  31 Aug 14
1051  Rulekeepor       2  G.            18 Apr 15   3 Jun 14
 103  Speaker**        2  omd            1 May 14  21 Apr 14
2438  Tailor           1  aranea         4 Nov 14    never
----------------------------------------------------------------

SP  Spending power (cf. Rule 2445)
*   Interstellar Associate Director of Personnel
**  Imposed
~   May not exist (cf. Rulekeepor note about Rule 2437)

Office          Report (* = monthly)   Last Published
-----------------------------------------------------
Dungeon Master  Province changes       Sun  9 Nov 14
                *Province state        Sun  9 Nov 14
Herald          The Agoran Newspaper   Tue 14 Apr 15
                *Patent Titles         Tue 14 Apr 15
IADoP           Offices                  see above
King Azaz       Word Cards             Mon 24 Nov 14
Promotor        Proposal Pool          Sat 18 Apr 15
Registrar       Players, Fora          Mon  6 Apr 15
Rulekeepor      Short Logical Ruleset  Sat 18 Apr 15
                *Full Logical Ruleset  Sun  2 Nov 14
Tailor          Ribbons                Thu 16 Apr 15

Recent events
-------------
Tue 16 Dec 14 01:01:26  Erivitus resigns as Referee and Minister of GNP
Sun 21 Dec 14 20:00:02  Elections/voting initiated for Referee and
                           Minister of GNP
Sun 28 Dec 14 20:00:02  Voting ends for Referee and Minister of GNP
Wed  7 Jan 15 20:50:57  G. deputises for Referee
Mon 12 Jan 15 18:45:34  G. deputises for Herald
Mon 26 Jan 15 20:09:52  G. deputises for Dungeon Master
Wed 11 Feb 15 18:21:58  G. deputises for Assessor
Wed 11 Feb 15 18:21:58  Proposal 7729 mandates a weekly Herald report
Wed 11 Feb 15 18:21:58  Proposal 7731 repeals Minister GNP
----- time of last report -----
Mon 13 Apr 15 22:30:39  omd resigns as King Azaz and Rulekeepor
Sat 18 Apr 15 00:14:08  G. deputises for Rulekeepor
----- future events -----

--
aranea

Luis Ressel | 19 Apr 18:19 2015
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DIS: PROTO: Organizations

Okay, so let's try to revive the Organizations idea. A patch is
attached. Notable changes: 

* I decriminalized Bancruptcy, but made it incur heavy penalties (no
  voting and no offices for 30 days).
* I removed the rule about Medals, we can add it later on.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: Organizations
AI: 3
Author: ais523
Co-Authors: aranea

Create a new Power-1.2 rule, "The Secretary":

      The Secretary is an office, responsible for tracking
      Organizations and related gamestate.

      The Secretary's report includes:

      a) A list of all Organizations and their Income.

      b) Each player's Expenditure.

Create a new Power-1.2 rule, "Organizations":

      An Organization is a type of entity. The following changes are
      secured: creating, modifying, or destroying an Organization; and
      causing an entity to become an Organization or cease to be an
      Organization. No entity that existed before the enactment of the
      first revision of this rule is an Organization.

      Budget is a switch belonging to (Organization, player) pairs
      (i.e. there is one instance of the switch for each combination
      of an Organization and a player), tracked by the Secretary,
      whose legal values are integers from 0 to 100 inclusive,
      defaulting to 0. An Organization's Income is the total value of
      all Budget switches for pairs that include that Organization. A
      player's Expenditure is the total value of all Budget switches
      for pairs that include that player. Changes to Budget are
      secured.

      A "member" of an Organization is a player for which the pair
      consisting of that Organization and that player has a nonzero
      Budget.

      It is IMPOSSIBLE, by any means, to change a Budget switch from a
      zero to nonzero value, except with the explicit, willful consent
      of the player included in the pair to which that Budget switch
      applies. This rule takes precedence over any rule that might
      make such a change possible.

Create a new Power-1.2 rule, "Organizational Restructuring":

      Charter is an Organization switch, tracked by the Secretary,
      whose legal values are texts, and with default value "An
      amendment to this Organization is Appropriate if no members of
      this Organization object to it within 4 days.".

      Each possible modification to an Organization, or to a switch
      that pertains to an Organization or a pair including that
      Organization, is considered to be either Appropriate or
      Inappropriate. An Organization's Charter SHOULD contain a method
      of determining the appropriateness of any attempt to modify that
      Organization.

      If a Charter does not specify the appropriateness of a
      modification, or if it attempts to specify the appropriateness
      of a modification but in a way that is unclear, ambiguous,
      circular, inconsistent, paradoxical, or that depends on
      information that is impossible or unreasonably difficult to
      determine, the modification is Inappropriate; otherwise, it is
      Appropriate if and only if the Charter specifies that it is.

      Organizations CAN be modified as follows:

      a) A member of an Organization CAN flip that Organization's
         Charter by announcement, if such a modification is
         Appropriate.

      b) Any player CAN flip a Budget Switch by announcement, if such
         a modification is considered Appropriate by the Organization
         to which the switch pertains, except where other rules
         disallow the change.

      c) A member of an Organization can modify its Charter without
         objection, even if such a modification is Inappropriate.
         Players SHOULD only use this mechanism to recover from
         situations where bugs in an Organization's charter prevent it
         from being modified via the normal mechanisms, and/or if the
         Charter forgets to specify circumstances under which a
         certain class of modifications would be Appropriate.

Create a new Power-1.2 rule, "Death and Birth of Organizations":

      If an Organization's Income is ever lower than 50, that
      Organization Collapses, destroying the Organization. Any players
      who were members of the Organization immediately before its
      Income reduced below 50 CANNOT become (or be caused to become)
      members of Organizations (regardless of who actually flips the
      switch), and cannot create Organizations, for 7 days after the
      collapse.

      If a player's Expenditure is 50 or lower, that player CAN create
      an Organization by announcement (except where disallowed by the
      preceding paragraph or by other rules), specifying a name for
      the Organization that is unique among Organizations, and that
      Organization's initial Charter. When a player creates an
      Organization this way, the Budget for the pair consisting of
      that player and that Organization becomes 50 (with other Budget
      switches for pairs including that Organization starting at their
      default of 0), and its Charter is set as the player specified.

Create a new Power-3 rule, "Bankruptcy":

      While a player's Expenditure exceeds 100, then any player CAN
      cause that player to become Bankrupt by announcement. The
      Secretary SHALL NOT allow any player's Expenditure to exceed 100
      for more than a week.

      When a player becomes Bankrupt, then all Budget switches for
      pairs that include that player are flipped to 0 and all elected
      offices e holds become vacant.

      If a player has become Bankrupt within the past 30 days, that
      player

      a) CANNOT create or modify Organizations or Budget switches in
         any way,

      b) CANNOT cast votes other than PRESENT,

      c) CANNOT be made the holder of an elected office,

      d) CANNOT perform an action via (regular or special)
         deputisation;

      rules to the contrary notwithstanding.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

--
aranea
Attachment (org_proposal.patch): text/x-patch, 7044 bytes
Luis Ressel | 19 Apr 16:41 2015
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DIS: What happened to Organizations?

I finally got around to reading the "Organizations" thread from last
December, which seems to have died after it dissolved into a discussion
about randomness. I know stadjer was planning to revive it, but there
haven't been any news from his side, either. Could we try and revive
the idea?

If the randomness is still a concern, we could just strip the medal
stuff off and add it later on after some organizations have been
created.

--
aranea


Gmane