Glenn Kuntz | 1 Sep 16:49 2001
Picon

Re: Weekend Gaming

--- In nigglybits <at> y..., "Glenn Kuntz" <crokinol <at> f...> wrote:
> --- In nigglybits <at> y..., Nick Danger <email <at> n...> wrote:
> > As a feeble attempt to get at least something a bit more on topic
> > floating.....
> > 
> > Do you have any holiday weekend (in the U.S.) gaming plans? If 
so, 
> is
> > there any game in particular you are hoping to get some table 
time?
> 
> I've been invited to some gaming this evening. 

Well, I wound up playing Carcassonne and then (for reasons I'm still 
not sure) Hearts with 6 people. Ended the evening with an invite to 
dine & game at a Korean restaurant this evening - I think we're going 
to play Ursuppe (sp?) The weekend is still young... :-)

Glenn Kuntz | 1 Sep 16:59 2001
Picon

Carcassonne & Beginners Luck

Is it just me? What is it with Carcassonne and beginners luck?
The first time I was introduced to the game (without any research, 
etc.) I won. After I got hold of a copy to play, I introduced it to 
my wife, who had never heard of it. She clobbered me. Last night, I 
played it with 4 others - a mix of gamers and neophytes. The woman 
who had never been to a gaming session before won hands down.

Coincidence? Probably. But it seems the more I try to analyze this 
game and come up with some kind of winning strategy, the more it 
eludes me, which suggests it may be more of a luck-fest than I 
previously thought, especially the more players you have. A FUN luck-
fest, mind you, and a great (IMO) B&P game, but am I missing 
something here?

David Vander Ark | 1 Sep 17:06 2001
Picon

Re: Carcassonne & Beginners Luck

You're not missing much. The game is very dependent on the luck of the
tile draw, but I've won a two player game without drawing any cloisters,
just got lucky and had lots of small cities with shields which
translated into more farms paying off. The person I was playing with
had their meeple tied up in cloisters. So it seems like there's a sort
of trade off or balance there. 

Finding the right strategy is sort of hit or miss, you have to take what
you draw and play from there. You may be able to influence others into
putting tiles where they are more helpful to you, but that's not
likely. It's a well designed B&P game that plays in about 40 minutes,
and has some design elements that balance out the luck. Fun game, hard
to figure out sometimes because of the luck of the draw. 
Dave

Glenn Kuntz wrote:
> 
> Is it just me? What is it with Carcassonne and beginners luck?
> The first time I was introduced to the game (without any research,
> etc.) I won. After I got hold of a copy to play, I introduced it to
> my wife, who had never heard of it. She clobbered me. Last night, I
> played it with 4 others - a mix of gamers and neophytes. The woman
> who had never been to a gaming session before won hands down.
> 
> Coincidence? Probably. But it seems the more I try to analyze this
> game and come up with some kind of winning strategy, the more it
> eludes me, which suggests it may be more of a luck-fest than I
> previously thought, especially the more players you have. A FUN luck-
> fest, mind you, and a great (IMO) B&P game, but am I missing
> something here?
(Continue reading)

Stven Carlberg | 1 Sep 20:19 2001
Picon
Picon

Re: Carcassonne & Beginners Luck

I agree that there is something about Carcassonne that enables that
phenomenon known as beginner's luck. I won the first game of it I ever
played. More than once I have sat down with experienced players to
teach a newbie the game and watched the newbie beat us handily. This is
a very clever design feature which interests more and more people in
playing the game!

Of course there's luck in the game. You're drawing tiles. That doesn't
mean there's no skill in the game, becuase deciding where to play those
tiles calls for some keen intelligence. But it does mean that skill
alone won't win every time. If you're uncomfortable with that, you're
playing the wrong game.

StvenC

--
"You can observe a lot just by watching."
-- Yogi Berra

Glenn Kuntz | 1 Sep 21:52 2001
Picon

Cloister Clusters

--- In nigglybits <at> y..., David Vander Ark <dvanderark <at> u...> wrote:
> You're not missing much. The game is very dependent on the luck of 
the
> tile draw, but I've won a two player game without drawing any 
cloisters,
> just got lucky and had lots of small cities with shields which
> translated into more farms paying off. The person I was playing 
with
> had their meeple tied up in cloisters. 

This is another thing I've noticed in the few games I've played thus 
far - cloisters are *very* often played next to other cloisters until 
they form a sort of cloister cluster. Anyone else noticed this?

Glenn Kuntz | 1 Sep 21:56 2001
Picon

Re: Carcassonne & Beginners Luck

--- In nigglybits <at> y..., Stven Carlberg <ideefixe <at> e...> wrote:
> 
> Of course there's luck in the game. You're drawing tiles. That 
doesn't
> mean there's no skill in the game, becuase deciding where to play 
those
> tiles calls for some keen intelligence. But it does mean that skill
> alone won't win every time. If you're uncomfortable with that, 
you're
> playing the wrong game.

Not at all, but if novices totally unfamiliar with the game are 
frequently winning, I question whether there's really all that much 
skill/intelligence in deciding where to play the tiles. ;-)

david mitchell | 2 Sep 01:28 2001
Picon

Re: Re: Carcassonne & Beginners Luck

There is a huge beginners luck thing going on with this game but in my case 
it is because I am always giving pointers. I want those I teach to love the 
game as much as I do and showing them where and why gives them a good head 
start towards that.

David
"Spoooooon"

----Original Message Follows----
From: "Glenn Kuntz" <crokinol@...>
Reply-To: nigglybits@...
To: nigglybits@...
Subject: [nigglybits] Re: Carcassonne & Beginners Luck
Date: Sat, 01 Sep 2001 19:56:28 -0000

--- In nigglybits <at> y..., Stven Carlberg <ideefixe <at> e...> wrote:
>
> Of course there's luck in the game. You're drawing tiles. That
doesn't
> mean there's no skill in the game, becuase deciding where to play
those
> tiles calls for some keen intelligence. But it does mean that skill
> alone won't win every time. If you're uncomfortable with that,
you're
> playing the wrong game.

Not at all, but if novices totally unfamiliar with the game are
frequently winning, I question whether there's really all that much
skill/intelligence in deciding where to play the tiles. ;-)

(Continue reading)

david mitchell | 2 Sep 01:51 2001
Picon

Another great Funagain review.

Without cheating and looking it up guess how many stars out of 5 this 
reviewer gave this game.

I wanted to like this game more, but essentially it just didn't cut it. 
There is simply too much luck in the turn of the cards. I'd like to play it 
a bit more to see whether I'm perhaps missing something, but I think not. 
The cards remove that element of skill I need in a game. If you imagine El 
Grande with severe restrictions on where you can place your cabelleros then 
you have Web of Power. I'm almost tempted to try the game without the cards. 
Fhen it might be more interesting. finally: What's with the name change? Are 
they trying to confuse us? Please just make a direct translation of the name 
in future. You don't achieve anything by trying to be clever & 'Cardinals 
and Kings' has a lot more flavour to it.

David
"Spoooooon"

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Stven Carlberg | 2 Sep 02:10 2001
Picon
Picon

Re: Re: Carcassonne & Beginners Luck

> Not at all, but if novices totally unfamiliar with the game are
> frequently winning, I question whether there's really all that much
> skill/intelligence in deciding where to play the tiles. ;-)

Objected to as already asked and answered.

PerryM

Thor & Sarah Samuelson | 2 Sep 02:12 2001

Re: Another great Funagain review.

>Without cheating and looking it up guess how many stars out of 5 this
>reviewer gave this game.

I didn't cheat, but having read the review earlier today (and noting 
the content vs. rating), I've been expecting you... and here you are!

:-)

regards,
Sarah S.


Gmane