Richard | 1 Aug 2009 06:14
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Re: Early adoption vs Quality of knowledge


In article <d02c260c0907310150p7f34f6cau8f58a7fd1ad45c7 <at> mail.gmail.com>,
    Christiaan Scholtz <spitfire <at> spitfire.za.org>  writes:

> I'm trying to decide whether to learn DirectX 9 or 11.
> [...]

Do you understand the fundamentals of 3D graphics?  If you do, then any
API is within your grasp as a means to an end.  APIs do not cover
concepts so much as they cover a means to achieving an end.  If you do
not know what end you wish to achieve, then it won't matter what API you
know.  All the APIs drive the same hardware, so they are more similar
than they are different, even between different versions of Direct3D.

Read my book for free:
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/the-direct3d-graphics-pipeline/>

Its ~500 pages of mostly DX9 material (some is still DX8-ish, sigh.)
Skim/skip the parts about shader assembly, you're unlikely to need to
know shader assembly at this point, although understanding the basics
of the instruction set is still useful to understand why a certain chunk
of HLSL doesn't end up working the way you expected.

Study my dataflow diagram of the 9.0 pipeline to keep as a reference:
<http://legalizeadulthood.wordpress.com/d3d-9-0-pipeline/> 

Still, its the concepts that endure.  We still draw points, lines and
triangles now just like they did in the late 1960s and early 1970s.  We
draw them with lots more options and at a crazy hardware accelerated rate
compared to those early days when a 512x512 color frame buffer cost you
(Continue reading)

James Robertson | 21 Aug 2009 16:34
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VS Debugger Vs Exceptions

Hi,

Anyone know whether it's possible to step to where an exception will be 
caught when the VS debugger passes it on to the application being debugged?

James

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Andrew Finkenstadt | 21 Aug 2009 17:26
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Re: VS Debugger Vs Exceptions

On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM, James Robertson <jamesr <at> funcom.com> wrote:
Hi,

Anyone know whether it's possible to step to where an exception will be caught when the VS debugger passes it on to the application being debugged?

James

Yes.

In visual studio, configure your debug -> exception settings to catch when thrown, as well as when it was not handled.

--Andy

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bob_holcomb | 21 Aug 2009 22:37
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Vacation reply

   Heya,how are you doing recently ? I would like to introduce you a very good company which i knew.Their website is  www.buangels.com   .They can offer you all kinds of electronical products which you need like laptops ,gps ,TV LCD,cell phones,ps3,MP3/4,motorcycles  etc........Please take some time to have a check ,there must be somethings you 'd like to purchase .
Their contact  email:buangels <at> 188.com ,MSN: buangels <at> hotmail.com .
Hope you have a good mood in shopping from their company !
Regards
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James Robertson | 22 Aug 2009 10:32
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Re: VS Debugger Vs Exceptions

Ah, but I want to see *where* it was handled.

Andrew Finkenstadt wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM, James Robertson <jamesr <at> funcom.com 
> <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi,
>
>     Anyone know whether it's possible to step to where an exception
>     will be caught when the VS debugger passes it on to the
>     application being debugged?
>
>     James
>
>
> Yes.
>
> In visual studio, configure your debug -> exception settings to catch 
> when thrown, as well as when it was not handled.
>
> --Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
> Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>   
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Kris Lamb | 22 Aug 2009 14:00
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Re: VS Debugger Vs Exceptions

Not sure if maybe this is too obvious/tidious and you already tried this, but why not set break points in all your catch statements?

On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 4:32 AM, James Robertson <jamesr <at> funcom.com> wrote:
Ah, but I want to see *where* it was handled.


Andrew Finkenstadt wrote:
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM, James Robertson <jamesr <at> funcom.com <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>> wrote:

   Hi,

   Anyone know whether it's possible to step to where an exception
   will be caught when the VS debugger passes it on to the
   application being debugged?

   James


Yes.

In visual studio, configure your debug -> exception settings to catch when thrown, as well as when it was not handled.

--Andy

------------------------------------------------------------------------

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Andrew Finkenstadt | 22 Aug 2009 14:47
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Re: VS Debugger Vs Exceptions

After first-chance thrown, click Step (F10).  I believe that the exception will get passed to the program, and then it will leave you on the catch() statement.  Or does it not?  (It's been quite awhile since I had to debug through stack unwinding and catches.)


--a


On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 3:32 AM, James Robertson <jamesr <at> funcom.com> wrote:
Ah, but I want to see *where* it was handled.


Andrew Finkenstadt wrote:
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM, James Robertson <jamesr <at> funcom.com <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>> wrote:

   Hi,

   Anyone know whether it's possible to step to where an exception
   will be caught when the VS debugger passes it on to the
   application being debugged?

   James


Yes.

In visual studio, configure your debug -> exception settings to catch when thrown, as well as when it was not handled.

--Andy

------------------------------------------------------------------------


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James Robertson | 23 Aug 2009 10:53
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Re: VS Debugger Vs Exceptions

Because I'm not convinced the catch is in my code.

Actually, I'm not convinced that an exception is being caught at all 
after looking at this a bit more yesterday.

What I know for sure is:

1) An access violation occurs inside the nvidia display driver while 
processing a call to Present.  (Vista64, latest drivers, never happened 
before I updated the drivers two days ago.)
2) The debugger breaks, of course, and I can roughly see the callstack.  
(No symbols for the nvidia driver, but the bottom of the callstack looks 
correct.)
3) If the debugger exception settings aren't set to break when thrown 
the debugger quietly notes the access violation and execution continues.
4) The application does not crash (leading me to believe something 
somewhere is handling the exception) but the stack doesn't appear to be 
unwound, and subsequently Things Happen (tm).

If I set a breakpoint at the top of the function that calls Present I 
can step through until I hit the Present call, hit F10 to step over it 
and the next thing I know is I'm back at my breakpoint again.  (And a 
breakpoint after the call to Present isn't hit either.) I tried putting 
a few breakpoints in destructors of known local objects (thanks for that 
sneaky suggestion, Bert) but they weren't hit either.

Kris Lamb wrote:
> Not sure if maybe this is too obvious/tidious and you already tried 
> this, but why not set break points in all your catch statements?
>
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 4:32 AM, James Robertson <jamesr <at> funcom.com 
> <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>> wrote:
>
>     Ah, but I want to see *where* it was handled.
>
>
>     Andrew Finkenstadt wrote:
>
>         On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM, James Robertson
>         <jamesr <at> funcom.com <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>
>         <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>>> wrote:
>
>            Hi,
>
>            Anyone know whether it's possible to step to where an exception
>            will be caught when the VS debugger passes it on to the
>            application being debugged?
>
>            James
>
>
>         Yes.
>
>         In visual studio, configure your debug -> exception settings
>         to catch when thrown, as well as when it was not handled.
>
>         --Andy
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
>         Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
>         <mailto:Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com>
>         http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>          
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
>     Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
>     <mailto:Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com>
>     http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
> Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>   
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Marc B. Reynolds | 23 Aug 2009 11:01
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Re: VS Debugger Vs Exceptions

Try setting up a root handler.

-----Original Message-----
From: sweng-gamedev-bounces <at> lists.midnightryder.com
[mailto:sweng-gamedev-bounces <at> lists.midnightryder.com] On Behalf Of James
Robertson
Sent: Sunday, August 23, 2009 10:54 AM
To: sweng-gamedev <at> midnightryder.com
Subject: Re: [Sweng-Gamedev] VS Debugger Vs Exceptions

Because I'm not convinced the catch is in my code.

Actually, I'm not convinced that an exception is being caught at all 
after looking at this a bit more yesterday.

What I know for sure is:

1) An access violation occurs inside the nvidia display driver while 
processing a call to Present.  (Vista64, latest drivers, never happened 
before I updated the drivers two days ago.)
2) The debugger breaks, of course, and I can roughly see the callstack.  
(No symbols for the nvidia driver, but the bottom of the callstack looks 
correct.)
3) If the debugger exception settings aren't set to break when thrown 
the debugger quietly notes the access violation and execution continues.
4) The application does not crash (leading me to believe something 
somewhere is handling the exception) but the stack doesn't appear to be 
unwound, and subsequently Things Happen (tm).

If I set a breakpoint at the top of the function that calls Present I 
can step through until I hit the Present call, hit F10 to step over it 
and the next thing I know is I'm back at my breakpoint again.  (And a 
breakpoint after the call to Present isn't hit either.) I tried putting 
a few breakpoints in destructors of known local objects (thanks for that 
sneaky suggestion, Bert) but they weren't hit either.

Kris Lamb wrote:
> Not sure if maybe this is too obvious/tidious and you already tried 
> this, but why not set break points in all your catch statements?
>
> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 4:32 AM, James Robertson <jamesr <at> funcom.com 
> <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>> wrote:
>
>     Ah, but I want to see *where* it was handled.
>
>
>     Andrew Finkenstadt wrote:
>
>         On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM, James Robertson
>         <jamesr <at> funcom.com <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>
>         <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>>> wrote:
>
>            Hi,
>
>            Anyone know whether it's possible to step to where an exception
>            will be caught when the VS debugger passes it on to the
>            application being debugged?
>
>            James
>
>
>         Yes.
>
>         In visual studio, configure your debug -> exception settings
>         to catch when thrown, as well as when it was not handled.
>
>         --Andy
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>         _______________________________________________
>         Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
>         Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
>         <mailto:Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com>
>
http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>          
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
>     Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
>     <mailto:Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com>
>
http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
> Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
>
http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>   
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Jon Watte | 23 Aug 2009 23:00
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Re: VS Debugger Vs Exceptions

Ah, it's a structured exception, not a regular exception. Those are
handled either by a __except, or by a SetUnhandledExceptionHandler (or
whatever that Win32 function is called -- something like that)

F11 to "step in," and clicking "pass the exception to the program *might* work.

Is your app MFC? MFC silently catches segfaults and goes back to the
main loop. That's got to be one of the dumbest design decisions I've
ever seen...

Sincerely,

Jw

On 8/23/09, James Robertson <jamesr <at> funcom.com> wrote:
> Because I'm not convinced the catch is in my code.
>
> Actually, I'm not convinced that an exception is being caught at all
> after looking at this a bit more yesterday.
>
> What I know for sure is:
>
> 1) An access violation occurs inside the nvidia display driver while
> processing a call to Present.  (Vista64, latest drivers, never happened
> before I updated the drivers two days ago.)
> 2) The debugger breaks, of course, and I can roughly see the callstack.
> (No symbols for the nvidia driver, but the bottom of the callstack looks
> correct.)
> 3) If the debugger exception settings aren't set to break when thrown
> the debugger quietly notes the access violation and execution continues.
> 4) The application does not crash (leading me to believe something
> somewhere is handling the exception) but the stack doesn't appear to be
> unwound, and subsequently Things Happen (tm).
>
> If I set a breakpoint at the top of the function that calls Present I
> can step through until I hit the Present call, hit F10 to step over it
> and the next thing I know is I'm back at my breakpoint again.  (And a
> breakpoint after the call to Present isn't hit either.) I tried putting
> a few breakpoints in destructors of known local objects (thanks for that
> sneaky suggestion, Bert) but they weren't hit either.
>
>
>
> Kris Lamb wrote:
>> Not sure if maybe this is too obvious/tidious and you already tried
>> this, but why not set break points in all your catch statements?
>>
>> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 4:32 AM, James Robertson <jamesr <at> funcom.com
>> <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Ah, but I want to see *where* it was handled.
>>
>>
>>     Andrew Finkenstadt wrote:
>>
>>         On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:34 AM, James Robertson
>>         <jamesr <at> funcom.com <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>
>>         <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com <mailto:jamesr <at> funcom.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>            Hi,
>>
>>            Anyone know whether it's possible to step to where an exception
>>            will be caught when the VS debugger passes it on to the
>>            application being debugged?
>>
>>            James
>>
>>
>>         Yes.
>>
>>         In visual studio, configure your debug -> exception settings
>>         to catch when thrown, as well as when it was not handled.
>>
>>         --Andy
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>         _______________________________________________
>>         Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
>>         Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
>>         <mailto:Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com>
>>
>> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>>
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
>>     Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
>>     <mailto:Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com>
>>
>> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
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Nevertheless, whether we get there willingly or not, we shall soon
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