Enno Rehling | 1 Apr 2008 08:13
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Re: Looking for a Flash/Actionscript book

Dietmar Suoch wrote:
> Yes, Colin Moock has the best books on Flash Development AFAIK.

That's the kind of recommendation I was hoping to get. Thanks, guys!
Jon, I'll start with the online stuff, but I like having a dead tree for
traveling.

> But I guess as an experienced game/C++/OOP-developer you don't need
> to learn all the basics that the flash community "discovered" the
> last couple of years.

That was exactly what I didn't want to do :-) When I think back to 
learning Java or Python, I think the major things to learn with new 
languages are a general feel for "how is this used differently from C++" 
(say Python's lists and lambda functions), familiarity with the 
environment (switching from Visual Studio to whatever else), and getting 
to know the core libraries (that is what took me so long with Java).

I'll try my luck with Colin Moock, then. Thanks!

Enno.
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-- 
I never wanted to be famous. I only wanted to be great.
- Ray Charles

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Juhana Sadeharju | 7 Apr 2008 16:58
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script parser by example?


Is there open source software which generates the parser by using
existing scripts as examples? With minimal user guidance.

That would be useful for third party tool authors, like authors
of modder's tools. E.g., Oblivion game includes 1600+ scripts.

I could feed xml, or html, or cg, or hlsl, or glsl, or lua, or tcl,
or max, or maya, or torgue, or morrowind/oblivion, or nwn, or unreal,
or whatever existing script or language to the generator, and in
return to have C/C++, Python, etc. interface or conversion.

Juhana
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Conor Stokes | 7 Apr 2008 17:38
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Re: script parser by example?

By example? As in a learning/intelligent system that learns a language by examples? That's generally a
very hard to solve problem (especially robustly) - even if a parser can work out both the lex and syntax
parse, getting on to semantics would be nigh on impossible.

Cheers,
Conor

----- Original Message ----
From: Juhana Sadeharju <kouhia <at> nic.funet.fi>
To: sweng-gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
Sent: Monday, April 7, 2008 10:58:58 PM
Subject: [Sweng-Gamedev] script parser by example?

Is there open source software which generates the parser by using
existing scripts as examples? With minimal user guidance.

That would be useful for third party tool authors, like authors
of modder's tools. E.g., Oblivion game includes 1600+ scripts.

I could feed xml, or html, or cg, or hlsl, or glsl, or lua, or tcl,
or max, or maya, or torgue, or morrowind/oblivion, or nwn, or unreal,
or whatever existing script or language to the generator, and in
return to have C/C++, Python, etc. interface or conversion.

Juhana
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Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
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Richard Fine | 7 Apr 2008 17:40

Re: script parser by example?

I've not heard of such a thing before, but if all you're looking for is 
a parser, surely figuring out a grammar for the language isn't too 
difficult? There are plenty of projects out there that generate parsers 
from a grammar (e.g. BISON).

- Richard

Juhana Sadeharju wrote:
> Is there open source software which generates the parser by using
> existing scripts as examples? With minimal user guidance.
> 
> That would be useful for third party tool authors, like authors
> of modder's tools. E.g., Oblivion game includes 1600+ scripts.
> 
> I could feed xml, or html, or cg, or hlsl, or glsl, or lua, or tcl,
> or max, or maya, or torgue, or morrowind/oblivion, or nwn, or unreal,
> or whatever existing script or language to the generator, and in
> return to have C/C++, Python, etc. interface or conversion.
> 
> Juhana
> _______________________________________________
> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
> Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com
> 
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Darren Grant | 7 Apr 2008 20:28
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Re: script parser by example?

Juhana Sadeharju wrote:
> Is there open source software which generates the parser by using
> existing scripts as examples? With minimal user guidance.
>
> That would be useful for third party tool authors, like authors
> of modder's tools. E.g., Oblivion game includes 1600+ scripts.
>
> I could feed xml, or html, or cg, or hlsl, or glsl, or lua, or tcl,
> or max, or maya, or torgue, or morrowind/oblivion, or nwn, or unreal,
> or whatever existing script or language to the generator, and in
> return to have C/C++, Python, etc. interface or conversion.
>
> Juhana

I think at that point you'd seriously have to consider the program for
employee wages. ;) 

Regards,
Darren

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Tom Plunket | 7 Apr 2008 21:24

Re: script parser by example?

> Is there open source software which generates the parser by using
> existing scripts as examples? With minimal user guidance.

What is your desired end goal or use for such a piece of software?

I don't know that such a thing could exist, though, since one does
not learn languages by context-free listening to that language being
spoken.  One needs a lot of clues about what various structures in
the language do.  I.e. I believe that no matter how much recorded
audio of people talking in another language I listened to, I would
not be able to learn that language.

> That would be useful for third party tool authors, like authors
> of modder's tools. E.g., Oblivion game includes 1600+ scripts.

How do you envision it being used by these people?  If you just want
to validate, "yeah this looks like a valid script," then the "easy"
way is to plug the grammar into a tool meant for parsing and let it
do the work for you.  Otherwise the first hitch I can think of would
be dealing with variable names, especially in languages where
variables don't need to be explicitly declared.

> I could feed xml, or html, or cg, or hlsl, or glsl, or lua, or tcl,
> or max, or maya, or torgue, or morrowind/oblivion, or nwn, or
> unreal, or whatever existing script or language to the generator,
> and in return to have C/C++, Python, etc. interface or conversion.

A translator tool would then need not only the input files but what
the desired outputs were, so to train it up in the first place you'd
have to feed it not only the inputs but also the expected outputs. 
(Continue reading)

Kris Lamb | 8 Apr 2008 01:49
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Re: script parser by example?

To answer the original question, you "could" but you'd probably spend the rest of your life getting it right.  Those scripts were written to in an already defined language, so there's no real point in trying to reverse engineer it.
 
On another note, an alternative is to use C# reflection and you can script things in C#, I recently did this on an in house tool and it works very well.  This worked out real nice because then you have intellisense for the "scripting" language :)

On Mon, Apr 7, 2008 at 3:24 PM, Tom Plunket <gamedev <at> fancy.org> wrote:
> Is there open source software which generates the parser by using
> existing scripts as examples? With minimal user guidance.

What is your desired end goal or use for such a piece of software?

I don't know that such a thing could exist, though, since one does
not learn languages by context-free listening to that language being
spoken.  One needs a lot of clues about what various structures in
the language do.  I.e. I believe that no matter how much recorded
audio of people talking in another language I listened to, I would
not be able to learn that language.

> That would be useful for third party tool authors, like authors
> of modder's tools. E.g., Oblivion game includes 1600+ scripts.

How do you envision it being used by these people?  If you just want
to validate, "yeah this looks like a valid script," then the "easy"
way is to plug the grammar into a tool meant for parsing and let it
do the work for you.  Otherwise the first hitch I can think of would
be dealing with variable names, especially in languages where
variables don't need to be explicitly declared.

> I could feed xml, or html, or cg, or hlsl, or glsl, or lua, or tcl,
> or max, or maya, or torgue, or morrowind/oblivion, or nwn, or
> unreal, or whatever existing script or language to the generator,
> and in return to have C/C++, Python, etc. interface or conversion.

A translator tool would then need not only the input files but what
the desired outputs were, so to train it up in the first place you'd
have to feed it not only the inputs but also the expected outputs.
...so a general purpose, "a person can use this and automatically
translate <scripting language for obscure game> to C++" would not
actually be useful to the person.

-tom!

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Jon Watte | 8 Apr 2008 20:31

Compiling on Laptops

We all know the problem:
1) build times are long, even with properly factored code and small, 
engineering-sized asset sets
2) "desktop replacement" laptops are really heavy, and too big to be 
used in airplanes or on the bus
3) 4 pound laptops are a great form factor, but typically come with slow 
disks and, at best, slow 64-bit discrete graphics parts

In my quest for the optimal engineer laptop, I've started wondering if 
the solid-state disks that have started popping up wouldn't help with 
the "slow disk" problem. I imagine the seek time is negligible, and when 
building stuff, I have the impression that seek time is at least as much 
of a problem as raw throughput.

Has anyone tried a larger build of some sort on a solid-state disk, and 
compared it to a regular laptop disk? And how were the results, in that 
case?

Sincerely,

jw

--

-- 

  Go is to Western chess what philosophy is to double entry accounting. 

  Forterra Systems is looking for superstar engineers, managers and artists to help 
  develop the highest-quality enterprise virtual world available on the market.
  E-mail me for details.

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James Robertson | 8 Apr 2008 20:32
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Re: Compiling on Laptops

Funnily enough I was pondering this exact same thing on the way home 
tonight.  I'd be interested in knowing the results too.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jon Watte" <hplus <at> mindcontrol.org>
To: <sweng-gamedev <at> midnightryder.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:31 PM
Subject: [Sweng-Gamedev] Compiling on Laptops

> We all know the problem:
> 1) build times are long, even with properly factored code and small,
> engineering-sized asset sets
> 2) "desktop replacement" laptops are really heavy, and too big to be
> used in airplanes or on the bus
> 3) 4 pound laptops are a great form factor, but typically come with slow
> disks and, at best, slow 64-bit discrete graphics parts
>
> In my quest for the optimal engineer laptop, I've started wondering if
> the solid-state disks that have started popping up wouldn't help with
> the "slow disk" problem. I imagine the seek time is negligible, and when
> building stuff, I have the impression that seek time is at least as much
> of a problem as raw throughput.
>
> Has anyone tried a larger build of some sort on a solid-state disk, and
> compared it to a regular laptop disk? And how were the results, in that
> case?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> jw
>
> -- 
>
>  Go is to Western chess what philosophy is to double entry accounting.
>
>  Forterra Systems is looking for superstar engineers, managers and artists 
> to help
>  develop the highest-quality enterprise virtual world available on the 
> market.
>  E-mail me for details.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
> Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com 

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Mat Noguchi | 8 Apr 2008 20:46

Re: Compiling on Laptops

I've been wanting to know this for 2 years now. :(

Too bad you have to invest in it to test it.

MSN
-----Original Message-----
From: sweng-gamedev-bounces <at> lists.midnightryder.com
[mailto:sweng-gamedev-bounces <at> lists.midnightryder.com] On Behalf Of James Robertson
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:33 AM
To: sweng-gamedev <at> midnightryder.com
Subject: Re: [Sweng-Gamedev] Compiling on Laptops

Funnily enough I was pondering this exact same thing on the way home
tonight.  I'd be interested in knowing the results too.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jon Watte" <hplus <at> mindcontrol.org>
To: <sweng-gamedev <at> midnightryder.com>
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 8:31 PM
Subject: [Sweng-Gamedev] Compiling on Laptops

> We all know the problem:
> 1) build times are long, even with properly factored code and small,
> engineering-sized asset sets
> 2) "desktop replacement" laptops are really heavy, and too big to be
> used in airplanes or on the bus
> 3) 4 pound laptops are a great form factor, but typically come with slow
> disks and, at best, slow 64-bit discrete graphics parts
>
> In my quest for the optimal engineer laptop, I've started wondering if
> the solid-state disks that have started popping up wouldn't help with
> the "slow disk" problem. I imagine the seek time is negligible, and when
> building stuff, I have the impression that seek time is at least as much
> of a problem as raw throughput.
>
> Has anyone tried a larger build of some sort on a solid-state disk, and
> compared it to a regular laptop disk? And how were the results, in that
> case?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> jw
>
> --
>
>  Go is to Western chess what philosophy is to double entry accounting.
>
>  Forterra Systems is looking for superstar engineers, managers and artists
> to help
>  develop the highest-quality enterprise virtual world available on the
> market.
>  E-mail me for details.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Sweng-Gamedev mailing list
> Sweng-Gamedev <at> lists.midnightryder.com
> http://lists.midnightryder.com/listinfo.cgi/sweng-gamedev-midnightryder.com

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