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Yair F | 2 Aug 2010 00:04
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Re: Re: Hebrew tutorial

Some small comments.

1. LRM and RLM are visible in text they look like dirt. It is an emacs  bug.
2 The section "NOTICE: The main purpose of the Emacs tutorial is to teach you
 the most important standard Emacs commands (key bindings)."
 etc. is not localized. I believe this is a bug as well.
3. Please use the Hebrew Maqaf instead of hyphen.
4. Please try to avoid the acronyms instead of  ש-ע"ג (why the
hyphen?) write שעל גבי.
5. About Copyright section I would suggest that you look at
the GPL translation by Adv. Haim Ravia available here:
http://www.law.co.il/computer-law/free-software/2007/07/13/gpl-3-hebrew-translation/

Yair
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Eli Zaretskii | 2 Aug 2010 05:03
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Re: Re: Hebrew tutorial

> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 01:04:05 +0300
> From: Yair F <yair.f.lists <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: emacs-bidi <at> gnu.org
> 
> Some small comments.

Thanks.

> 1. LRM and RLM are visible in text they look like dirt. It is an emacs  bug.

Yes.  Handa-san tells me that there should eventually be rules to
compose them with the next character, so they will become invisible.
But this is not set up yet.

> 2 The section "NOTICE: The main purpose of the Emacs tutorial is to teach you
>  the most important standard Emacs commands (key bindings)."
>  etc. is not localized. I believe this is a bug as well.

This is inserted by tutorial.el, and it is in English in all the
tutorials.

> 3. Please use the Hebrew Maqaf instead of hyphen.

Why? what's wrong with the hyphen?

> ש-ע"ג (why the hyphen?)

This is how you are supposed to write acronyms preceded by articles.
If you write שע"ג, it could be interpreted as a 3-letter acronym,
which it isn't.
(Continue reading)

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Eli Zaretskii | 2 Aug 2010 19:56
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Re: Re: Hebrew tutorial

> Date: Mon, 02 Aug 2010 06:03:06 +0300
> From: Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org>
> Cc: emacs-bidi <at> gnu.org
> 
> > 2 The section "NOTICE: The main purpose of the Emacs tutorial is to teach you
> >  the most important standard Emacs commands (key bindings)."
> >  etc. is not localized. I believe this is a bug as well.
> 
> This is inserted by tutorial.el, and it is in English in all the
> tutorials.

Just to make my intent clear: if someone wants to enhance tutorial.el
so that it could insert translated versions of this text, please feel
free.
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Yair F | 2 Aug 2010 23:08
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Re: Re: Hebrew tutorial

On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 6:03 AM, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> wrote:

>> 2 The section "NOTICE: The main purpose of the Emacs tutorial is to teach you
>>  the most important standard Emacs commands (key bindings)."
>>  etc. is not localized. I believe this is a bug as well.
>
> This is inserted by tutorial.el, and it is in English in all the
> tutorials.
>
The it is a bug not-specific to  Hebrew. :)

>> 3. Please use the Hebrew Maqaf instead of hyphen.
>
> Why? what's wrong with the hyphen?

Despite what most of us have been accustomed in the last 30 years,
hyphen is foreign
to the Hebrew language. Take another look at the newspapers or books published
by serious publishers.

> This is how you are supposed to write acronyms preceded by articles.
> If you write שע"ג, it could be interpreted as a 3-letter acronym,
> which it isn't.

Let's just settle on not using acronyms then. :)
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Eli Zaretskii | 7 Aug 2010 11:57
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Re: Re: Hebrew tutorial

> Date: Mon, 2 Aug 2010 01:04:05 +0300
> From: Yair F <yair.f.lists <at> gmail.com>
> Cc: emacs-bidi <at> gnu.org
> 
> 3. Please use the Hebrew Maqaf instead of hyphen.

I tried that, but the results look ugly, at least on MS-Windows: the
Maqaf is composed with the preceding character and almost entirely
blends with it as result of this composition.  Is this something
specific to the Windows Uniscribe engine?  Is this an Emacs bug?

Anyway, until this is fixed, if possible, I don't think we should use
Maqaf in the tutorial.

> 4. Please try to avoid the acronyms instead of  ש-ע"ג (why the
> hyphen?) write שעל גבי.

I removed all of the acronyms, with the single exception of ע"י, which
I think is very common in modern Hebrew texts.

Thanks again for your comments.
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Amit Ramon | 8 Aug 2010 22:25
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Re: Re: Hebrew tutorial

Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> [2010-08-07 12:57 +0300]:

>> 3. Please use the Hebrew Maqaf instead of hyphen.
>
>I tried that, but the results look ugly, at least on MS-Windows: the
>Maqaf is composed with the preceding character and almost entirely
>blends with it as result of this composition.  Is this something
>specific to the Windows Uniscribe engine?  Is this an Emacs bug?

I think this is a (new) bug. I can see it on Linux/X, and it was
working fine until about a month ago. I reported it on the emacs-devel
list.

In principle Yair is right - in Hebrew maqaf is used to join words,
not a hyphen.
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Kenichi Handa | 9 Aug 2010 13:09

Re: Re: Hebrew tutorial

In article <8362zmwxru.fsf <at> gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
> > 3. Please use the Hebrew Maqaf instead of hyphen.

> I tried that, but the results look ugly, at least on MS-Windows: the
> Maqaf is composed with the preceding character and almost entirely
> blends with it as result of this composition.  Is this something
> specific to the Windows Uniscribe engine?  Is this an Emacs bug?

It's an Emacs bug.  I've just committed a fix.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa <at> m17n.org
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Yair F | 9 Aug 2010 12:59
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Re: Re: Hebrew tutorial

On Sun, Aug 8, 2010 at 11:25 PM, Amit Ramon <amit.ramon <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> I think this is a (new) bug. I can see it on Linux/X, and it was
> working fine until about a month ago. I reported it on the emacs-devel
> list.

It is a bug in composition rules. Until the composition picture would
be clearer I will try to create
a simple patch that won't suffer from this problem later this evening.
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Yair F | 9 Aug 2010 20:15
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Re: Re: Hebrew tutorial

On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 2:09 PM, Kenichi Handa <handa <at> m17n.org> wrote:
> In article <8362zmwxru.fsf <at> gnu.org>, Eli Zaretskii <eliz <at> gnu.org> writes:
>> > 3. Please use the Hebrew Maqaf instead of hyphen.
>
>> I tried that, but the results look ugly, at least on MS-Windows: the
>> Maqaf is composed with the preceding character and almost entirely
>> blends with it as result of this composition.  Is this something
>> specific to the Windows Uniscribe engine?  Is this an Emacs bug?
>
> It's an Emacs bug.  I've just committed a fix.
>

Thank you, it is working correctly now.

05C3 (Sof Pasuq) is also non-composable character. Please fix it as well.

Also, when trying to replace the dash character with Maqaf using
M-% in the toutorial, the cursor (notifying point) is not always
positioned in the correct place, the replacement is correctly
highlighted using font-lock.
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Kenichi Handa | 10 Aug 2010 03:36

Re: Re: Hebrew tutorial

In article <AANLkTiktPE6a9GHPbf5U+nZ-56oQ_Hu_a6ozDBiR3OgR <at> mail.gmail.com>, Yair F
<yair.f.lists <at> gmail.com> writes:

> 05C3 (Sof Pasuq) is also non-composable character. Please fix it as well.

Just done.

> Also, when trying to replace the dash character with Maqaf using
> M-% in the toutorial, the cursor (notifying point) is not always
> positioned in the correct place, the replacement is correctly
> highlighted using font-lock.

In isearch too, the cursor is positioned (logically) after
the matched text.  The problem is that, in BIDI text, that
position may be far from the matched text on screen.

By the way, in M-% (query-replace), the "notifying point" is
not the cursor, but the region highlighted by the face
`isearch' (the default is lightskyblue1 on magenta3).  So,
perhaps, it may be better to hide cursor in query-replace.

---
Kenichi Handa
handa <at> m17n.org
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Gmane