Jonathan Rodgers | 1 Mar 15:49 2005
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RE: Persian Romanization

John, don't bore us with further iterations of the faults of Persian romanization, but rather fill us in on your exciting trip and truck fire! I hope you are safe and recovered.

 

JR

 

 On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:40:47 -0800, John Eilts wrote:
> Peter,
> As one curmudgeon to another, I think you have a very strong point.
>  And since the discussion has turned a bit to looking at the need
> for romanization at all in a user friendly catalog of manual or
> automated variety, I would rather put my efforts into getting us
> all into producing records to share with original script only, with
> the option for "romanization" or "transliteration" as needed for
> local purposes.  But the point being that all descriptive elements
> should be according to the original AACR2  rule. John
>
> (Forgive me if I am a little incoherent.  I have just returned from
> a trip driving a truck and trailer across this all too vast country
> with many adventures along the way and culminating with the truck
> bursting into flames at the destination--all goods were rescued!).
>
> At 07:19 AM 2/24/2005, you wrote:
>> Dear Colleagues over the Water,
>>
>> I have read the correspondence on the question of Romanisation of
>> Persian with interest but I did not consider it my place to
>> interfere from the perspective of a different country.
>>
>> However the following item begins to sound some warning bells to
>> me in case some sort of consensus of US Middle Eastern librarians
>> emerges that might bring influence to bear to alter LC
>> Romanization tables in directions I do not like.
>>
>> "(2)  The recent discussion of Persian romanization and the place
>> of vernacular
>> scripts in OPACS makes me wonder whether we need to have a
>> Committee on Technical Services (or maybe just "Cataloging") to
>> pull together the threads and work with the ALA CCS CCAAM rep.
>> (currently, John) and listserv owner for
>> the Middle East cataloging group and the Arabic/Persian
>> Cataloging Manual folks at Princeton on problems in this area."
>>
>> I hope you will not mind if I put forward a British (though
>> personal) contribution to the debate.
>>
>> I have to declare an interest here.  One of the achievements of
>> MELCOM UK has been to get all the British libraries to drop their
>> various transliteration systems for Arabic and Persian and for
>> them all to conform to LC's Romanization tables. I consider this
>> to be an achievement and it has facilitated immeasurably the
>> exchange of cataloguing records between libraries. I do not think
>> any of the British academic institutions would view with favour
>> the idea of altering either transliteration table.
>>
>> I also have to declare a prejudice owing to the fact that I first
>> acquired my Persian in Kabul.  Now in Kabul people do not
>> pronounce the word transliterated according to LC tables as
>> khanah as khoone, nor the word transliterated as "muhaqqiq" as
>> "mohaghghegh".  In fact the Kabuli pronunciation conforms much
>> more closely to LC than to Tehrani pronunciation, even down to
>> the izafa (ezafe) which is pronounced more closely to i than to e.
>>
>> I would rather not get into a long and ultimately sterile
>> discussion on the relevant merits of transliteration tables. They
>> are all purely conventions, and all equally absurd to the extent
>> that people have had to use them to mediate between readers of a
>> language and the materials in that language the readers are
>> looking for.
>>
>> However I am afraid that despite the great new possibilities
>> brought about by Unicode it is likely to be a long time over here
>> before it will be possible to dispense with romanization.
>>
>> I would then just like to put in a little plea to leave the
>> tables as they are.
>>
>> Best wishes from a cockney curmudgeon,
>>
>> Peter Colvin

Fereshteh Molavi | 2 Mar 16:00 2005
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Re: Persian Romanization

Dear colleagues,

Regarding the ongoing discussion on problems of Middle Eastern cataloging 
in general and Persian Romanization in particular, I'd like to make the 
following points:

-For non-Roman script publications, cataloging records (bibliographic and 
authority) should have vernacular. Also, search interface in original 
script is of high importance, for now the primary users of these materials 
are either native speakers or non-native speakers who can read the language 
of the publications in question.

-We have to provide the Romanized fields in our records for secondary users 
who, despite the lack of knowledge of a given language, need the 
publications for their scholarly works. Needless to say that Roman script 
is helpful for library staff dealing with processing these publications.

-If transliteration is a tool to effectively and appropriately retrieve 
bibliographical information, it should be based on simplicity and accuracy. 
These criteria are defined according to the users, rather than providers.

-ALA/LC romanization table for Persian has to bear remarkable changes due 
to the fact that the present primary users are now different. One hundred 
years ago, the main users of Persian (as well as Arabic or Turkish) 
publications were mostly orientalists and non-native scholars, so 
transliteration systems applied mainly in European academic centers were 
rooted in their knowledge, needs, and possibilities. It's been for quite a 
while that primary users of Persian materials available in North American 
or European centers are scholars, academics, students, and other readers 
who know modern Persian language, either as their own mother tongue or a 
second language. For these users, the table is an inadequate tool far from 
accuracy or simplicity. Considering the role of LC in both national and 
international professional scenes, and its position as an authority, the 
disadvantages of the mentioned table are more crucial than they may seem at 
first glance.

-ALA/LC Romanization table for Persian is expected to represent Persian 
language as used by its native speakers (who are at the present time the 
primary users as well). Since the main country (at least in terms of 
population) of Persian language is Iran, the Iranian standard or formal 
pronunciation has to be considered. "Farhang-i Farsi-i Mu'in" is the only 
authentic reference source for pronunciation so far available (the present 
edition is not update and adequate enough and the new edition is not yet 
ready), so it can be used not only as "an appendage" to the table, as LC 
recommends, but also as a source for revising the table. As David and Matt 
have indicated, working on problematic words and issues not addressed by 
Mu'in would be helpful.

-Without denying the merits of the Steingass dictionary (published in 1892 
for English students of that era who wanted to learn Persian and become a 
Persian scholar), I have to say it would be very misleading to use an old 
dictionary based mainly on Arabic background as a source for solving the 
current problems of Persian cataloging (I suspect it might be even one of 
the misleading sources for LC table).

-Other than the romanization table, Persian cataloging encounters 
problematic issues when it comes to creating name authority records. Also, 
subject headings (particularly in Islam, history, and literature) deserve 
more attention.

-While Persian cataloging is part of Middle Eastern cataloging, it needs to 
be treated independently and discussed by a group of those who have either 
expertise or experience in both language and profession. A sub-committee on 
Persian and in coordination with cataloging committee of MELA, may be the 
best venue to revise the table and reconsider, review, and expand the 
current Persian Cataloging Manual according to the theoretical aspects of 
the subject and the practical issues of creating bibliographic and 
authority records for Persian publications.

lwilkins | 2 Mar 19:43 2005
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Fwd: Information on INDEX ARABICUS

An interesting development!
-- 
M. Lesley Wilkins

Bibliographer for Law of the Islamic World, Harvard Law School Library
Langdell 165, 1545 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA 01238 U.S.A.
Phone: 1-617-495-4063  Fax: 1-617-496-4409  Net: lwilkins@...

----- Forwarded message from "G.J. Roper" <gjr2@...> -----
    Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:13:59 +0000
    From: "G.J. Roper" <gjr2@...>
Reply-To: Middle Eastern and Islamic Library Collections and Bibliography
<LIS-MIDDLE-EAST@...>
 Subject: Information on INDEX ARABICUS
      To: LIS-MIDDLE-EAST@...

_INDEX ARABICUS_ is a bibliography of Arabic periodical articles,
1870-1969. Modelled on Index Islamicus, it was originally compiled on cards
by members of MELCOM-UK in the 1970s, sent to Beirut for printing, and
apparently lost in the turmoil of the Lebanese civil war.

More recently the cards came into the possession of the University of Imam
al-Ouzai in Beirut, who have entered their contents into an online
database, provided by Multidata Services. This can be accessed at
http://www.multidataonline.com/SID-4E9167E6-8CD3-4A72-A834-40E0C8C2AF3C/index_arabicus/search1.asp

It is an invaluable research tool for most aspects of Arabic and Islamic
studies in that period (1870-1969). Searching must of course be done in the
Arabic script, but an on-screen keyboard is available.

Geoffrey Roper
Bibliographical Consultant
Cambridge

----- End forwarded message -----

Muhammad al-Faruque | 3 Mar 23:33 2005
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E-Resources on Middle East

Friends,

I am trying to gather information on some important electronic resources (database) related to Middle East and available only through subscription. I am aware of Index islamicus and on-line  version of Encyclopedia of Islam. Besides these two, what other e-resources your library has on subscription and you would strongly recommend for me.

Both on-line and off-line responses are welcomed.

Muhammad al-Faruque
University of Illinois.UC
Shayee Khanaka | 4 Mar 01:24 2005
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Palestine Bound Grad. Student


Dear Melanetters,

A graduate student from UC Berkeley is going to the West Bank.  She needs 
to be able to conduct research about Palestinian poets while there. She 
already has some contact with Bir Zeit University & Institute for Palestine 
Studies.

Can those of you who are more familiar with the situation in Palestine 
provide other venues for her?

Thank you in advance,

Shayee Khanaka
Middle East Collection
438 Doe Library
University of California
Berkeley CA 94720-6000
(510) 643-3145
(510) 643-6650 (fax)

Ali Houissa | 7 Mar 14:27 2005
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Iran Opens New National Library

Iran Opens New National Library amid International Tension

President Mohammad Khatami inaugurated the National Library of Irans new building March 1 in Tehran. He indicated that the opening of the 100,000-square-meter facility provides everyone a good opportunity to think about books and their many uses, adding that people learn to love and seek peace and justice in libraries,the Tehran Times reported March 2.

Although construction began in 1996 at a cost of roughly $34 million, the library is only 60% operational but is expected to increase its one million holdings by as many as 600,000 volumes over the next 10 years. National Library Director Muhammad Kazem Mousavi Bojnourdi said in the Times, We have no problem buying books, even from the countries with which we have political problems.

Those political problems, however, did prevent American Libraries Editor Leonard Kniffel and Jeremy Stone of Catalytic Diplomacy, a Washington-based nonprofit organization that facilitated a visit to Iran last year by Librarian of Congress James Billington, from entering the country. Even though they had invitations from the library and visas issued by the Iranian Interests Section in the Pakistani Embassy in Washington, both were detained upon arrival at the airport for several hours and then sent home without explanation.

Mehdi Atefat, the officer in Washington who issued the visas, told AL March 3 that the deportations had to do with the critical situationin diplomatic relations between the United States and Iran. The librarys Director General of Information and Reference Services Gholamreza Amirkhani, who was one of several Iranian librarians who tried to intervene at the Tehran airport, said he had talked with Khatami and the president had promised to look into the incident.

Posted March 4, 2005.
American Libraries ONLINE
Ali Houissa | 7 Mar 20:02 2005
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al-Hayat newspaper

PLEASE reply to me directly ah16@...

If your library sub. to al-Hayat:

How soon do you get issues --after pub. date?

Are you experiencing any significant delays lately?

Who's your supplier? (Other than Swets)

Thanks

A.

Hirad Dinavari | 7 Mar 20:28 2005
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Chakavak Flyer

Paul, 
Can you please put this flyer up on our website?

Thank You, 

Hirad 

Hirad Dinavari
Reference Librarian for the Iranian World Collections

Library of Congress
African and Middle Eastern Division, Near East Section
Room LJ 220
Thomas Jefferson Building
101 Independence Ave. S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20540-4820
(202) 707-4518
hdin@...

"The content and views expressed in this email reflect my personal
views and not the views of the Library of Congress."
Attachment (Chakavak-LC.pdf): application/pdf, 265 KiB
Attachment (Chakavak-LC.doc): application/msword, 441 KiB
Hirad Dinavari | 7 Mar 20:56 2005
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Chakavak Flyer

Paul, 
Can you please put this flyer up on our website?

Thank You, 

Hirad 

Hirad Dinavari
Reference Librarian for the Iranian World Collections

Library of Congress
African and Middle Eastern Division, Near East Section
Room LJ 220
Thomas Jefferson Building
101 Independence Ave. S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20540-4820
(202) 707-4518
hdin@... 

"The content and views expressed in this email reflect my personal
views and not the views of the Library of Congress."
Attachment (Chakavak-LC.pdf): application/pdf, 266 KiB
Attachment (Chakavak-LC.doc): application/msword, 443 KiB
Ruhul Ameen Yousufzai | 7 Mar 21:14 2005
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Re: Chakavak Flyer

Hirad,

Thanks for the info. and for keeping on your email list.
ameen

>>> hdin@... 03/07/05 2:28 PM >>>
Paul, 
Can you please put this flyer up on our website?

Thank You, 

Hirad 

Hirad Dinavari
Reference Librarian for the Iranian World Collections

Library of Congress
African and Middle Eastern Division, Near East Section
Room LJ 220
Thomas Jefferson Building
101 Independence Ave. S.E.
Washington, D.C. 20540-4820
(202) 707-4518
hdin@... 

"The content and views expressed in this email reflect my personal
views and not the views of the Library of Congress."


Gmane