Hi Srihari,
I have slightly different views.
--> That is good! We are not looking to brainwash folks at all.
People do not come to US because it provides great education (Isn't M.Tech from Bangalore much better than many schools rated less than rank 40 and yet students make bee-lines to those schools instead of Bangalore).
---> I don't want to sound harsh either. We postulate that people don't show up to schools ranked below a scale. However, I would question most post-graduate degrees currently offered in India. Of course, I am not qualified to, but if memory serves me right, I haven't seen a significant level of improvement in the programs offered in most schools unless they were the Taata Institutootu (also know as IISc for people not from the city of refried beans) or the IITs.
They come to US because it provides a great standard of living and when you return after spending 5-10 years here, your savings kitty is more than triple what your kitty would become here.
---> Wrong attitude. Our group would be unable to help such people simply because we are trying to help either with people seeking education or seeking help with the mechanics of the application process. We do not have the bandwidth to tell people who much disservice they would do to themselves if they thought of "standard of living" improvements, especially coming from India in 2010.
The kitty business - I have also joined several local entrepreneurship groups to "watch" and become "qualified" to comment on US and India, and I can tell you, the VC investments, the growth opportunities and career opportunities in India are much brighter. So, really if you are not looking for specific educational value...
Great education in colleges is a myth.
--> Nope. Literacy is the act of being taught or teaching a subject. Education is about inference. When you go to a great school, you do have the opportunity to educate yourself.
It is upto the student to study or not.
---> I would presume a student would study! Or not call themselves a student...
If a student has love for education, he can even study on a 32kbps power-backed-up internet connection which does not even run his cieling fan (modern version of burning midnight lamp )!
---> I am missing your point here. We are really happy to encourage people to learn by themselves if they are served by that. This is why we urge people to be conscious about everything - wanting to study in the US, the specific courses, the choice of schools and beyond.
Meeting people from other cultures is also not something for which one would leave his homeland.
---> That would be a person with a closed mind. A personal choice of course, not a good one.
What Ashish was asking here is about the general job scenario.
---> That has been answered - "It's complicated".
Any student who comes to US does not hope to come out with 5 patents and 10 papers.
---> Ambitions can and must change.
He only knows that he will do his best to come out with good grades.
----> You are speaking for everyone here? Our group is not about helping average people continue down the path...
He also knows that almost all the students who will be coming there would be almost as smart and hard working as himself (foreign students please... am not talking of Americans).
So, all in all, what is most likely to happen?
...
...
...
Most likely, the incoming student will end up as an average to good student.
And it is for this group of students that he wants to know the job prospects.
---> For average people? People who, in a bad economy with an uncertain future don't want to go the extra mile? If I answer that, I will sound like a terrible person...
Let us not say future is unpredictable. We know that.
----> I think it needs to be repeated clearly, just because we cannot predict, which is what the question wants us to address!
What we want to know is how is the job scenario for an average fresh graduate?
---> Already avoided answering.
Can you help us by telling how were the placements for the past 3-4 years in colleges?
---> There is no concept of "placement" in many Universities, not colleges, in the US. They have placement centers and they help you. If you don't get a job, er, beyond a point, it's your own problem.
Such kind of data would cover the best and the worst years and give a very clear picture.
---> We don't have it. It is possible that someone did some research, but it would be too generic and will not apply to many scenarios.
(I have searched for such data and am unable to find, if you can send me the link, I would be very very grateful).
---> Saw this a bit late.
About the growth rate, GDP per capita of US is 45,000 USD and that of India is 1,000 USD.
Of China it is 4,000 USD (Per annum figures).
How long you think will it take for the countries to balance out?
Also put in the huge advancement already done in US (I have heard so many times that US is 200 years ahead of India.)
----> We started this group, not trying to solve world hunger. We are looking to help self motivated individuals obtain the best possible answers as it relates to education. We are not a career help group, unfortunately. I am happy to look over resumes, forward linkedin connections, call up my friends for individuals, and I am doing it, and I am nearly certain so are some of our long term colleagues here. Beyond that, unless there is a huge demand (on this group we haven't seen it), we can only focus on helping people on a personal basis.
I am not sure how else I can answer this. I really don't care about comparing the US to India using GDP because it
makes no sense to me when I try to fit it into the context of this group, sorry.
I am sorry if my mail became too long.
But I wanted to move from the idealistic approach to a practical one.
Ideal approach is to devout yourself fully in education, be the number one student and thus make sure you are the most-desired-candidate of all companies. Then you will always have job. But that is really hard to achieve. Hence we talk of average students.
We are highly doubtful that we can be the best, but we are 100% sure we will better than average.
So please give us the placement figures and demands, scholarship scenarios for average to good students. Best will have something always and bad ones will gamble with their luck. This is known and needs no reminder.
---> Again, I think we are definitely the wrong group for average people looking for a sham list of schools, an SOP they can copy, and such. I am sure you are not one of those people, because you have taken so much effort to compose this letter. Difference of opinion is not just welcome, it is encouraged.
Obviously, our idealism (or mine) bothers you. However, unless we push people toward the ideal, we will not be able to get you to focus on the real question - why are you leaving your friends, your family and everything to go to some strange land? How does that help with the standard of "living"?
My sincere apologies again if anything sounded harsh above.
I only wanted to put my point forward humbly and sincerely.
I sounded harsher than you here, so you can take back the apologies :).
The basic answer is this: the US will see really slow growth over the next 2 - 3 years, maybe a bit longer. With 10% of the country out of a job, it would be hard for any company to justify hiring "average" foreigners. We really hope people are looking to work really "smart" and hard toward a loftier goal when applying for education because otherwise, the benefits - are quite low...really, really low.
I am not trying to trash-talk people based on an expected GPA. But, nowadays, getting a job takes much more than that. Your career center at your school, is there to help you. Yes, some schools do take an aggressive stance toward findin
g you a job (like RIT, I think), but in most schools, they want you to be able to help yourself beyond a point.
Trust me guys, they are really helpful, but you
have to give up this notion of companies pulling up in a cart and loading you. Almost universally, hiring for internships and even full-time positions is on an individualized basis, and you have to be prepared to "hunt" nowadays.
Remember, shooting the messenger - not a good idea!
Good Luck,
Sirhari
Best Regards
-Shweta
From: Yamanoor Srihari <yamanoor-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
To: gre-success-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org
Sent: Sun, August 29, 2010 8:48:55 PM
Subject: Re: (GRE Success! ) Re: Opportunities after doing MS from US university
Hello Ashish,
I started answering your query, but I am straying in the general direction here. Age does that to, sometimes, er, always...
MS CS folks, if you have great coding experience may still be able to find work in start-ups. I was going to post this as a standalone message, but here is a good example as to why I keep climbing up rooftops (albeit with a fear of heights) and yell about building portfolios:
http://www.slate.com/id/2265202/
And so, yes, any work experience that is demonstrable can be help.
Remember, I could say things are great for MSCS or alternately that they are really bad, but as they throw on every late night TV ad here, "Re
sults are not typical, individual results may vary".
Your focus, as always should be on getting great education, and hopefully you have identified that there are
specific courses available in the US, not available in India (with Linux, PHP, Python and all that other jazz, and a 386, you can learn most everything in a CS class, for example). You have also probably identified that you could benefit from spending time with people from another culture and these are among the main reasons why you opt for a course here.
The jobs thing...well that is a great post-masters goal to have, but should not be the main reason why you come to the US. India is growing at what 7%? and the US may grow at 2-3% this year and stay at the rate for the foreseeable future. Where will most of the jobs be?
If you are worried about the dollars to rupee conversion, try to assign a dollar value for staying away from your parents and the exorbitantly unhealthy "bh
el puri" off the streets...
Good Luck,
Srihari
Home: http://www.yamanoor.com/
Photography: http://www.yamanoor.net/
Laughs: http://ysrihari.blogspot.com/
Medical Devices: http://chaaraka.blogspot.com/
Earth: http://itshothere.org/
--- On Sun, 8/29/10, ashish documents <ashish.tra.document-Re5JQEeQqe8@public.gmane.org
m> wrote:
From: ashish documents <ashish.tra.document-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Subject: Re: (GRE Success! ) Re: Opportunities after doing MS from US university
To: gre-success-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org
Date: Sunday, August 29, 2010, 7:45 AM
Hello srihari,
Thanks a lot for your views, can you brief little bit more about the present condition in US IT market for MSCS guys and in what direction it is changing its course ?
does work experience before MS matters in finding fresher jobs ?
Best Regards,
Ashish Bindal
B.Tech-IT
On Sat, Aug 28, 2010 at 7:46 AM, Yamanoor Srihari <yamanoor-/E1597aS9LQAvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Hello Ashish,
Times are tough now. Who knows? Things might change later on. It is also a little hard to compare the US to India, but in the long term, India is going to grow rapidly and significantly - as of now, it's a wager.
Good Luck,
Srihari
Home: http://www.yamanoor.com/
Photography: http://www.yamanoor.net/
Laughs: http://ysrihari.blogspot.com/
Medical Devices: http://chaaraka.blogspot.com/
Earth: http://itshothere.org/
--- On Fri, 8/20/10, ashish documents <ashish.tra.document-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:
From: ashish documents <ashish.tra.document-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Subject: (GRE Success! ) Re: Opportunities after doing MS from US university
To: gre-success-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org
Date: Friday, August 20, 2010, 10:55 PM
Hiii,
I request to seniors kindly consider my query. I am grateful to you for actively providing your suggestions.
Best Regards,
Ashish Bindal
B.Tech-IT
On Tue, Aug 17, 2010 at 4:49 PM, ashish documents <ashish.tra.document-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: Hello everyone,
I would like to know about the placement scenario after doing MS in computer science from good/decent US university. Is it as competitive as in India ?
Are american new policies affecting the fresher jobs? What If i wanted to come back to india after 1 or 2 year and in what bracket i can assume the salary ?
Have a good day,
Ashish Bindal
B.Tech-IT
IIIT-A
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