John M. McMahon | 1 Jan 02:25 2008

General Interest: Egyptian monuments threatened by groundwater

News Daily / UPI 12/31/07:

"Groundwater threatens Egyptian treasures"

"Encroaching groundwater threatens the foundations, columns and walls of
Egyptian treasures in Cairo's Giza Plateau, scientists and engineers say.

Some flooding caused by farming, urban development and residential housing
near the monuments already has begun, Kyodo News reported Monday."

The rest:

http://www.newsdaily.com/Science/UPI-1-20071231-19043800-bc-egypt-groundwate
r.xml

JMM / LMC

Jeffrey B. Gibson | 1 Jan 17:41 2008
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ERXOMAI = return

In his entry in BDAG on ERXOMAI Danker notes that besides having the
meaning "come", the verb was also used   "Hom.+"  (from Homer forward)
"w[ith] the specif[ic] m[eani]ng 'come back, return'".

     Also w. the specif. mng. come back, return (Hom.+; Bar 4:37; 1
     Esdr 5:8; Tob 2:3 BA) J 4:27; 9:7; Ro 9:9)

Curiously, though, when I turn to LSJ, I find nothing there that
indicates that Homer, let alone any post Homeric author,  used ERXOMAI
to signify the "specific" meaning" that Danker says it bore.

Is Danker wrong in this matter?  Or are there Homeric and post Homeric
instances outside of the ones he actually cites of ERXOMAI meaning
"return"?

If so, what are they?

Yours,

Jeffrey
--
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail jgibson000 <at> comcast.net

Colin McLarty | 1 Jan 19:01 2008

Re: ERXOMAI = return

I'm not sure how you want to identify a "specific meaning."  But when 
Achilles speaks of "the reward I take to my ships" at Il 1.168 he does 
mean "take back to."

As a more ambiguous case, when Achilles speaks tells his mother to "go 
to Olympus and make prayer to Zeus" at Il. 1.394 she would be going 
back to where she had often been, although not to where she had just 
come from (the sea).

How would you identify a specific meaning?

best, Colin

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeffrey B. Gibson" <jgibson000 <at> COMCAST.NET>
Date: Tuesday, January 1, 2008 11:42 am
Subject: [CLASSICS-L] ERXOMAI = return
To: CLASSICS-L <at> LSV.UKY.EDU

> In his entry in BDAG on ERXOMAI Danker notes that besides having the
> meaning "come", the verb was also used   "Hom.+"  (from Homer forward)
> "w[ith] the specif[ic] m[eani]ng 'come back, return'".
> 
> 
>     Also w. the specif. mng. come back, return (Hom.+; Bar 4:37; 1
>     Esdr 5:8; Tob 2:3 BA) J 4:27; 9:7; Ro 9:9)
> 
> Curiously, though, when I turn to LSJ, I find nothing there that
> indicates that Homer, let alone any post Homeric author,  used ERXOMAI
> to signify the "specific" meaning" that Danker says it bore.
(Continue reading)

James M. Pfundstein | 1 Jan 21:55 2008
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Re: ERXOMAI = return

Cunliffe cites Iliad 5.409 (έλθοντ' έκ πολέμοιο) and a  
string of other examples. It looks like there are usually contextual  
clues of back-ness, again-ness (e.g. αὖτις, πάλιν) that  
suggest the meaning of "return," so a thrifty lexicogapher might  
decide the meaning isn't latent in the verb itself.

JMP("Palindromos")

On Jan 1, 2008, at 11:41 AM, Jeffrey B. Gibson wrote:

> In his entry in BDAG on ERXOMAI Danker notes that besides having the
> meaning "come", the verb was also used   "Hom.+"  (from Homer forward)
> "w[ith] the specif[ic] m[eani]ng 'come back, return'".
>
>
>      Also w. the specif. mng. come back, return (Hom.+; Bar 4:37; 1
>      Esdr 5:8; Tob 2:3 BA) J 4:27; 9:7; Ro 9:9)
>
> Curiously, though, when I turn to LSJ, I find nothing there that
> indicates that Homer, let alone any post Homeric author,  used ERXOMAI
> to signify the "specific" meaning" that Danker says it bore.
>
> Is Danker wrong in this matter?  Or are there Homeric and post Homeric
> instances outside of the ones he actually cites of ERXOMAI meaning
> "return"?
>
> If so, what are they?
>
> Yours,
>
(Continue reading)

Niels Grotum | 2 Jan 00:53 2008
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Re: ERXOMAI = return

Autenrieth has (in Keep's translation) s.v. ἔρχομαι (3):
redire, return (ἄψ, Ο 550, Κ 211; πάλιν, Ι 408, τ 533), Γ 428, Θ 12, Μ 225, π 23, 131, 206, = referri, be brought back, Σ 180; ἄλγος, depart from, Χ 43.
Just glancing at a couple of those examples, I see nothing that contradicts JMP's observation that - at least in Homer - there are usually other clues in the context that indicate a notion of returning.


~Niels


Jeffrey B. Gibson skrev:
In his entry in BDAG on ERXOMAI Danker notes that besides having the meaning "come", the verb was also used "Hom.+" (from Homer forward) "w[ith] the specif[ic] m[eani]ng 'come back, return'". Also w. the specif. mng. come back, return (Hom.+; Bar 4:37; 1 Esdr 5:8; Tob 2:3 BA) J 4:27; 9:7; Ro 9:9) Curiously, though, when I turn to LSJ, I find nothing there that indicates that Homer, let alone any post Homeric author, used ERXOMAI to signify the "specific" meaning" that Danker says it bore. Is Danker wrong in this matter? Or are there Homeric and post Homeric instances outside of the ones he actually cites of ERXOMAI meaning "return"? If so, what are they? Yours, Jeffrey -- Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon) 1500 W. Pratt Blvd. Chicago, Illinois e-mail jgibson000 <at> comcast.net

Jeffrey B. Gibson | 2 Jan 01:07 2008
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Re: ERXOMAI = return

 

Niels Grotum wrote:

Autenrieth has (in Keep's translation) s.v. ἔρχομαι (3):
redire, return (ἄψ, Ο 550, Κ 211; πάλιν, Ι 408, τ 533), Γ 428, Θ 12, Μ 225, π 23, 131, 206, = referri, be brought back, Σ 180; ἄλγος, depart from, Χ 43.
Just glancing at a couple of those examples, I see nothing that contradicts JMP's observation that - at least in Homer - there are usually other clues in the context that indicate a notion of returning.
What about Hellenistic literature.  Are there  instances where unmarked ERXOMAI means "return, come back"?

Jeffrey
--
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail jgibson000 <at> comcast.net
 

James M. Pfundstein | 2 Jan 02:07 2008
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Book Sale at Curculio

Michael Hendry, quondam listmember and philologist semper, is having  
a book sale through his website.

http://www.curculio.org/BookSale/

JM("Mercurialis")P

John Isles | 2 Jan 02:17 2008
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Re: ERXOMAI = return

Sophocles’s Greek Lexicon of the Roman and Byzantine Periods doesn’t give any examples of ρχομαι with a ‘return, come back‘ sense.

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Isles
Hanover, Michigan
North American Secretary, The Webb Deep-Sky Society
www.webbdeepsky.com
'Caeli scrutamur plagas'


-----Original Message-----
From:
Classical Greek and Latin Discussion Group [mailto:CLASSICS-L <at> LSV.UKY.EDU] On Behalf Of Jeffrey B. Gibson
Sent: Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:08 PM
To: CLASSICS-L <at> LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: ERXOMAI = return

 

 

Niels Grotum wrote:

Autenrieth has (in Keep's translation) s.v. ρχομαι (3):

redire, return (ψ, Ο 550, Κ 211; πλιν, Ι 408, τ 533), Γ 428, Θ 12, Μ 225, π 23, 131, 206, = referri, be brought back, Σ 180; λγος, depart from, Χ 43.

Just glancing at a couple of those examples, I see nothing that contradicts JMP's observation that - at least in Homer - there are usually other clues in the context that indicate a notion of returning.

What about Hellenistic literature.  Are there  instances where unmarked ERXOMAI means "return, come back"?

Jeffrey
--
Jeffrey B. Gibson, D.Phil. (Oxon)
1500 W. Pratt Blvd.
Chicago, Illinois
e-mail jgibson000 <at> comcast.net
 

James J. O'Donnell | 2 Jan 04:36 2008
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quotation help

With happy new year wishes for all, does anyone have a source for the
ubiquitous Internet quotation ascribed to the pharaoh who placed over
the doorway to the "library" at Thebes the words "medicine for the
soul"?  I'm suspicious . . .

Jim O'Donnell
Georgetown U.

Rosivach, Vincent | 2 Jan 04:55 2008

RE : quotation help

Speaking of which, where did the APA's motto come from?

Vince

________________________________

De: Classical Greek and Latin Discussion Group de la part de James J. O'Donnell
Date: mar. 2008-01-01 22:36
À: CLASSICS-L <at> LSV.UKY.EDU
Objet : quotation help

With happy new year wishes for all, does anyone have a source for the
ubiquitous Internet quotation ascribed to the pharaoh who placed over
the doorway to the "library" at Thebes the words "medicine for the
soul"?  I'm suspicious . . .

Jim O'Donnell
Georgetown U.


Gmane