Picon

You have been added to the CLASSICS-L list

Mon, 26 Jan 2004 10:30:35

You have been  added to the CLASSICS-L mailing list  (Classical Greek and
Latin Discussion Group) by Diana Wright <dgw1 <at> NYU.EDU>.

Please save this message for future  reference, especially if this is the
first time you are subscribing to an electronic mailing list. If you ever
need to leave  the list, you will find the  necessary instructions below.
Perhaps  more importantly,  saving a  copy of  this message  (and of  all
future subscription notices  from other mailing lists) in  a special mail
folder will give you instant access to the list of mailing lists that you
are subscribed  to. This may  prove very useful the  next time you  go on
vacation and  need to leave  the lists temporarily so  as not to  fill up
your  mailbox while  you  are away!  You should  also  save the  "welcome
messages" from the  list owners that you will  occasionally receive after
subscribing to a new list.

To send  a message to  all the people  currently subscribed to  the list,
just send mail to CLASSICS-L <at> LSV.UKY.EDU. This is called "sending mail to
the list," because  you send mail to a single  address and LISTSERV makes
copies   for  all   the  people   who  have   subscribed.  This   address
(CLASSICS-L <at> LSV.UKY.EDU)  is also  called  the "list  address." You  must
never try to send any command to that address, as it would be distributed
to all the people  who have subscribed. All commands must  be sent to the
"LISTSERV  address,"  LISTSERV <at> LSV.UKY.EDU.  It   is  very  important  to
understand  the difference  between the  two, but  fortunately it  is not
complicated. The LISTSERV address is like  a FAX number that connects you
to  a machine,  whereas the  list  address is  like a  normal voice  line
connecting you to a person. If you make a mistake and dial the FAX number
when you wanted to talk to someone on the phone, you will quickly realize
(Continue reading)

E. Christian Kopff | 26 Jan 16:48 2004
Picon

Homage to a Philologist

I caught the end of the Golden Globe awards last night. The first
person thanked by the director of the movie that was honored as
Best Film was a university professor of language and literature.
I wonder if that has ever happened before there or at other awards
ceremonies.
Tolkien devoted his research to establishing, commenting on and
interpreting texts. He used his influence as Professor to model the
Oxford English degree on the Classical one, including a language
requirement (Old English). That is what I would describe as success
in scholarship and administration. Someone wrote of him as follows:
"Tolkien, who in his youth had worked on the Oxford English Dictionary,
knew that, once upon a time, 'grammar' and 'glamour' were the same word,
and he devoted his life as pedant and poet to helping us feel that
unity as a living reality. 'Man is in love,' said Yeats, 'and loves
what vanishes. What more is there to say?' Both literary critic and
philologist have much more to say, of course. But while the literary
critic is using his rational mind to create the best of all possible
literary worlds, Beowulf fights the eerie dragon of destruction, the
devourer of languages, of manuscripts, of human memory. And the
philologist fights with him. 'You and I,' Professor Tolkien wrote his
son, 'belong to the ever-defeated, never altogether subdued side.' He
stands with the old Norse gods, of whom he liked to quote W. P. Ker:
'They are on the right side, though not it is not the side that wins.
The winning side is Chaos and Unreason, but the gods, who are defeated,
think that defeat no refutation.'"

Christian Kopff
University of Colorado, Boulder
E.Kopff <at> Colorado.edu

(Continue reading)

Jay Kardan | 26 Jan 17:05 2004
Picon

Re: Homage to a Philologist

BUT . . .  Tolkien's greatest distinction (and the only reason we are
talking about him today) is that he was a philologist who also wrote works
of imaginative literature.  This is what makes him a rare and inspiring
figure:  his learning bore fruit similar in nature and quality to the older
works it fed upon.

J.K.

----- Original Message -----
From: "E. Christian Kopff" <E.Kopff <at> COLORADO.EDU>
To: <CLASSICS-L <at> LSV.UKY.EDU>
Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 10:48 AM
Subject: Homage to a Philologist

> I caught the end of the Golden Globe awards last night. The first
> person thanked by the director of the movie that was honored as
> Best Film was a university professor of language and literature.
> I wonder if that has ever happened before there or at other awards
> ceremonies.
> Tolkien devoted his research to establishing, commenting on and
> interpreting texts. He used his influence as Professor to model the
> Oxford English degree on the Classical one, including a language
> requirement (Old English). That is what I would describe as success
> in scholarship and administration. Someone wrote of him as follows:
> "Tolkien, who in his youth had worked on the Oxford English Dictionary,
> knew that, once upon a time, 'grammar' and 'glamour' were the same word,
> and he devoted his life as pedant and poet to helping us feel that
> unity as a living reality. 'Man is in love,' said Yeats, 'and loves
> what vanishes. What more is there to say?' Both literary critic and
> philologist have much more to say, of course. But while the literary
(Continue reading)

Diana Wright | 26 Jan 17:52 2004
Picon

Aegean prehistory -- Oxford

The School of Archaeology and Faculty of Classics (in association with Keble College) propose to make an
appointment to The Rachel and Sinclair Hood Lecturership in Aegean Prehistory in conjunction with a
Tutorial Fellowship at Keble College under arrangements described in the further particulars. The
combined University and College salary will be according to age on a scale up to £42,900 per annum (under review).

The successful candidate will be a scholar and teacher with wide interests and an outstanding research
record in Aegean prehistory and protohistory, and will be expected to teach the subject to a high standard
at both undergraduate and graduate level.

Further particulars, containing details of the application procedures and of the duties, may be obtained
from Lidia Lozano, School of Archaeology, 36 Beaumont Street, Oxford OX1 2PG
(lidia.lozano <at> arch.ox.ac.uk), or by visiting the School of Archaeology website
(http://www.arch.ox.ac.uk/schoolarch/jobs.phtml). The closing date for applications is Wednesday
18 February 2004.

The University is an equal opportunities employer.

Prospective applicants may consult: Dr J. J. Coulton (jim.coulton <at> classics.ox.ac.uk).

Dr S. R. F. Price
Lady Margaret Hall, Oxford OX2 6QA
simon.price <at> lmh.ox.ac.uk
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~srfprice/simonprice.htm
http://sphakia.classics.ox.ac.uk
http://crete.classics.ox.ac.uk

Kevin McGee | 26 Jan 17:55 2004
Picon
Picon

Re: The Shade that May Not be Named [WAS: Re: BCE/CE vs. BC/AD]

Quoting Elizabeth Vandiver <elizvand <at> HOTMAIL.COM>:

> This is mentioned in the recently-released movie "In America"--but the
> character who mentions it (an Irish woman, talking to a black man) says that
> in the Irish language, the term "black man" (would that be "fear dubh," vel
> sim?) indicates "The Devil."  True? Not true?

"Fear dubh" does mean black man. That it signifies the devil ("an diabhal" to
the colour-blind) rang a vague bell with me, and an even vaguer bell with my
wife. Tintinnabulation passing for proof in my house, I will let that stand
until I can find someone fluent.

Is it because the Bonzo Dog Doo-Dah Band are so far off-topic that nobody has
hummed a bar yet of Can A Blue Man Sing The Whites?

-KM

JW Worthy | 26 Jan 18:54 2004
Picon

Re: Wie es eigentlich gewesen war

The subject line is German for "the way it had been."  If, on the other hand, the subject line would invoke the spirit of Leopold von Ranke's Kritik neuerer Geschichtsschreiber (1824, although I am not sure exactly where the oft -quoted expression, "wie es eigentlich gewesen ist," or related saws like "ad fontes," "sine ira et studio," actually occur).   I prefer Dr. Luther's "wo steht denn das geschrieben?" even if it did get him excommunicated.  The highest standard is of course is Albert Finney-Poirot's thrice repeated query on the Orient Express:  "Did you see it?"  I  think that is what Ranke meant, something like:  "Do your records go back to eye-witnesses or better?"

Best,
J.W. Worthy
Sipe Springs, Texas
Office of The Provost | 26 Jan 19:02 2004
Picon

Tolkien as philologist

T.A. Shippey, The Road to Middle Earth, about 20 years ago, was most
illuminating about the way the fantasy books were grounded in and most
interestingly developed Tolkien's quite enviable philological expertise.
A most instructive book.  Shippey's written more since on JRRT that I've
not seen and one site suggests that his more breathlessly titled JRRT:
Author of the Century incorporates much of what was in the earlier, more
sedate book.

Jim O'Donnell

E. Christian Kopff | 26 Jan 19:02 2004
Picon

Re: Homage to a Philologist

Quoting Jay Kardan <jkardan <at> CSTONE.NET>:
> BUT . . .  Tolkien's greatest distinction (and the only reason we are
> talking about him today) is that he was a philologist who also wrote works
> of imaginative literature.  This is what makes him a rare and inspiring
> figure:  his learning bore fruit similar in nature and quality to the older
> works it fed upon.

True and well stated. The analogy of tree and fruit is apt. You do
not get the fruit without, e.g.,  roots, stem and leaves, without
the right soil and nurture. Fruit does not directly produce fruit.
To think that the skills of a philologist can be creative without
the traditions and culture that nurtured them is to hope for what
never was and never will be.

Christian Kopff
University of Colorado, Boulder
E.Kopff <at> Colorado.edu

Pesely, George | 26 Jan 19:40 2004

Re: Wie es eigentlich gewesen war

Sine ira et studio:  Tacitus, Annales 1.1.3:

 

inde consilium mihi pauca de Augusto et extrema tradere, mox Tiberii principatum et cetera, sine ira et studio, quorum causas procul habeo.

 

George Pesely

Austin Peay State University

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Classical Greek and Latin Discussion Group [mailto:CLASSICS-L <at> LSV.UKY.EDU] On Behalf Of JW Worthy
Sent:
Monday, January 26, 2004 11:55 AM
To: CLASSICS-L <at> LSV.UKY.EDU
Subject: Re: Wie es eigentlich gewesen war

 

The subject line is German for "the way it had been."  If, on the other hand, the subject line would invoke the spirit of Leopold von Ranke's Kritik neuerer Geschichtsschreiber (1824, although I am not sure exactly where the oft -quoted expression, "wie es eigentlich gewesen ist," or related saws like "ad fontes," "sine ira et studio," actually occur).   I prefer Dr. Luther's "wo steht denn das geschrieben?" even if it did get him excommunicated.  The highest standard is of course is Albert Finney-Poirot's thrice repeated query on the Orient Express:  "Did you see it?"  I  think that is what Ranke meant, something like:  "Do your records go back to eye-witnesses or better?"

Best,
J.W. Worthy
Sipe Springs, Texas

Elizabeth Vandiver | 26 Jan 19:46 2004
Picon

Re: Tolkien as philologist

JO'D wrote:

>T.A. Shippey, The Road to Middle Earth, about 20 years ago, was most
>illuminating about the way the fantasy books were grounded in and most
>interestingly developed Tolkien's quite enviable philological expertise.
>A most instructive book.  Shippey's written more since on JRRT that I've
>not seen and one site suggests that his more breathlessly titled JRRT:
>Author of the Century incorporates much of what was in the earlier, more
>sedate book.

I read *Tolkien: Author of the Century* about 18 months ago, and my memory
is that it does incorporate some of the same material as *The Road to Middle
Earth*. Even more recently, there's John Garth's *Tolkien and the Great War:
The Threshold of Middle-earth*, which I received as my most-perfect-ever
Christmas gift and devoured with the sort of pleasure that can only be
experienced by one who sees TWO of her foremost fascinations combined into
one. (I admit that my pleasure was not untempered by invidia--I'd long toyed
with the idea of writing something on Tolkien and WWI myself. But alas, I
never did more than "toy with.")  The author is not a philologist, but his
discussion of Tolkien's philology is very well done, I thought. Certainly he
brings out the fact that for JRRT, the invented languages came *first*--the
narratives were invented second, to provide a world for the languages.

EV

Elizabeth Vandiver
Distinguished Visiting Lecturer
Department of Greek and Roman Studies
Rhodes College
Memphis, Tennessee 38112

_________________________________________________________________
Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine  <at>  MSN.
http://wine.msn.com/


Gmane