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Re: Twike

Not a velomobile in my eyes. A velomobile in my opinion is defined by the requirements of human power. With
electrical assist, power levels should remain within human power magnitudes to remain a velomobile.
When the electric engine becomes stronger, it starts to dominate the character of the vehicle. You become
dependent on it. Before you know it, you end up with a motor vehicle. Such is the case with the Twike, it
started as a too big, heavy and slow hpv and found its purposes as a little efficient motor vehicle before
its time. Vehicle weight is light for a car, but very heavy if one would count it as a velomobile. Pedal power
is mostly an exercise gimmick as it represents maybe 5% of the total available power. 

If this kind of electrical vehicle is of interest, also have a look at the coming Renault Twizy. A little
light electrical commuter vehicle that is both likable, practical in town and that will be relatively
very cheap.

/Frederik 
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Ladislav Blaha | 12 Jan 18:29

Re: Velomobile Digest, Vol 57, Issue 10

On 12.1.2012 18:00, velomobile-request <at> hupi.org wrote:
> Send Velomobile mailing list submissions to
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> Today's Topics:
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>     1. Twike is a velomobile? (Paolo Bartoli)
>     2. Twike price (Paolo Bartoli)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Wed, 11 Jan 2012 18:40:13 +0100
> From: Paolo Bartoli<paolo <at> bartolidesign.it>
> To: velomobile <at> hupi.org
> Subject: [Velomobile] Twike is a velomobile?
> Message-ID:<7971B5A5-6C67-4D85-BBA6-74F01F10BC38 <at> bartolidesign.it>
(Continue reading)

Paolo Bartoli | 11 Jan 18:44
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Twike price

Found some price informations on Twike website, not a cheap choice!

Prices 2010
TWIKE Easy	 from 16.590,- (excluded batteries)
TWIKE Active	from 17.190,- (excluded batteries)

Batteries
Range 60-80 km	Li-Ion 9,6 Ah	€ 5.976,-
Range 90-110 km	Li-Ion 14,4 Ah	€ 8.964,-
Range 120-150 km	Li-Ion 19,2 Ah	€ 11.952,-
Range 160-200 km	Li-Ion 24,0 Ah	€ 14.940,-

All prices are including VAT and excluding Dutch registration and delivery costs.

Paolo Bartoli, Monza Italy
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Paolo Bartoli | 11 Jan 18:40
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Twike is a velomobile?

Hello,
would you consider the Twike still a velomobile? http://www.twike.com/en/home/home.html

It has many of the features that we're talking about. Of course it is much wider that conventional
velomobiles, but I think that right now we're talking of something like an evolution of the velomobile
typology, closer to a full-featured vehicle regarding safety etc.
On their website you can read they sold 900 units in 10 years, around 90/year.

BTW, I have no idea of the Twike price… Anyone?

Paolo Bartoli, Monza Italy
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David M. Eggleston | 6 Jan 18:10

Paths to future velos

Hi John,

Thanks for your detailed reply. It is good to be back in contact with you. In view of your long experience and
accomplishments I place a high value on what you say. And we old farts need to stick together!

David

From: JOHN TETZ 
Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2012 8:04 PM
To: David M. Eggleston 
Subject: Re: [Velomobile] Velomobile design

David Eggleston

Thank you for giving your experienced and wide ranging overview on various VM issues. Very valuable
information. 
I agree we have a lot yet to learn but we have accomplished a lot in these last 10 years of VM development.

>An all-around velo has a better chance of commercial success than one that is only good for a few things.
......Too much of a range is asking a lot of a design, given the power source is so weak. Seems to me that honing
a design for a specific area of need is more apt to be accomplished. Cars range from small to large with few to
many features to accomplish various needs.

>I didn’t mean to denigrate designs focused on narrower goals. Taylor Wilhour and Patrick Kirchem used
Velocity Velos bodies on trikes, but also used PA systems on ROAM. They were constantly trying to find
receptacles for charging their batteries during lunchtime, etc. They also had mechanical problems. But
they did both make it to D.C., and only missed out on a few days of riding. While their aerodynamics is not up
to that of the very streamlined velos, their motors and big batteries made up for that.
   I admit to being a fan of VM.nl and their design and manufacturing work. In the Quest and Mango (and now
Strada) they have all-around velos that do well in many uses. Good aerodynamics blesses you every time you
(Continue reading)

john abbey | 3 Jan 21:53
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Re: Check email

There was a message?  :)

John (Tetz) & all, I am very interested in working farther on the project. 

I am working with David on his velos now, and some of the points he's brought up with me here about the
collaboration have been important ones. As soon as the two (or more) of you get together and start
discussing some of the focus and intellectual property aspects (as we all should have some aspects in that
area to protect), then I will feel free to begin some input as I need to know the bounds under which the
project will be working.

John Abbey
airmoose
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David M. Eggleston | 3 Jan 20:02

Velomobile design

   Following John Tetz’s plea for us to get together and work on the future of velomobiles, I’ve enjoyed
reading your contributions. Here is my two cents worth.
   From an engineering point of view, velomobile design has to start out conceptually with a list of
specifications that the final vehicle must satisfy. Nobody seems to do this on paper, but one can
back-figure what the specifications are that the final vehicle satisfies or fails to satisfy when it is
tested. Velomobile design has to deal with almost all of the problems that must be solved in the design of a
small car. It is a long list, but speed, low noise, cushy ride, weather and crash protection, stability and
handling qualities, the ability to stop quickly and safely, power efficiency, ease of ingress and
egress, cost, convenience, ease of maintenance, cost of parts, etc. are some of the requirements. Velos
are used for commuting, shopping, long tours, recreational day rides, running errands, racing, etc.
Some machines are designed specifically for racing, with little or no thought given to other uses. Some
velos are quite capable of a whole range of tasks, while others are best for only one or two types of use. An
all-around velo has a better chance of commercial success than one that is only good for a few things.
Owning many velos is too expensive. Carrying bulky objects is best done with a specialized vehicle or a
velo with a cargo trailer.
   You can fairly easily put an aero body on an existing unsuspended trike, but you are likely to end up with many
difficulties, including body attachments to the trike, noise of thin shells vibrating, and many others.
Chief among these may be that when the aerodynamics are great and you can go really fast, not having a
suspension can be mighty uncomfortable. It is likely to result in the rider getting lots of reasons to
upgrade to a well-designed (and expensive) velomobile. So you can “cheat” on any of the design
requirements up to a point, but the ones that riders want will come back to haunt you if your velo doesn’t
have them.
   I harken back to the day that the Tempelman shop opened in Dronten in the Netherlands. Johan Vrielink, chief
of Flevobike, came up, put his hand on my shoulder, and said “Building velomobiles is the hardest thing I
have ever done in my life.” Over the years, I have come to realize the truth of this statement. There have
been tremendous numbers of dream velos that never come to fruition because of this fact. Getting a design
“frozen” and getting it into production is quite difficult. The market is ephemeral so raising money
for a big production run is really hard. All VM manufacturers hope that Ford or General Motors or Toyota
will never understand the wonderful future for the world full of velomobiles, and so far, the companies
never have. 
(Continue reading)

guy sylvestre | 3 Jan 19:42
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valisating e-mail receiving &............................!!!


hello got your e-mail if this is what you want to know. I crossed read your e-mail and love pretty much your hpv
way of thinking! ref: developping a vehicle: "......interested in practical vehicles for local alternate
 transportation for average folks." happy new year and good luck in your projects 
Guy Sylvestre

 > From: velomobile-request <at> hupi.org
> Subject: Velomobile Digest, Vol 57, Issue 1
> To: velomobile <at> hupi.org
> Date: Tue, 3 Jan 2012 12:00:06 -0500
> 
> Send Velomobile mailing list submissions to
> 	velomobile <at> hupi.org
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> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
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> You can reach the person managing the list at
> 	velomobile-owner <at> hupi.org
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Velomobile digest..."
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> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>    1. Check email (David M. Eggleston)
>    2. Re: Collaborative VM project (Trevor Holland)
(Continue reading)

David M. Eggleston | 2 Jan 22:49

Check email

Did you get this message?

David
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Chris Jordan | 8 Dec 19:59
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What do you consider a velomobile?

What do you consider a velomobile?  In 1999 or so the first description I saw was fully enclosed, so I
believed only that and only that until 2005 when I had to cut out a Flintstone Hole to back up.  Then I
understood the "heads out" or different frame concepts.  Mine was a streamliner concept with 2 Zzipper
fairings ("chopper" model to reach from nose to tail) more like a mini-submarine on 3 wheels; all  taped
up with that shiny silver tape with a little slit for the back wheel.  In 2009 I cut the cockpit open and
unbolted the roof making the velomobile look more like a rolling bathtub 4 inches high.  I liked the wide
open feeling, appearance, and view so I left it off until 2011.  This part of central coastal California
has not accepted velomobiles.  Even now!  I'm only in 3 Yahoo groups at this time- including Recumbent
City and PeoplePoweredVehicles groups.  
 
__Chris Jordan__
*countersTrike*
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mark McWilliams | 8 Dec 18:56
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What do you consider a velomobile?

I am car free in central California. I do not have to deal with snow but do have to deal with rain which is
sometime freezing and sometimes heavy i.e. up to an half an inch an hour, yet I am able to ride in the rain and
cold and stay relatively dry and warm on my ATP Vision R42 with a Zipper fairing and a home made "rain coat"
that attaches to the fairing and wraps around me to protect me from wet weather or extreme *(20 degrees
Fahrenheit is about as cold as it ever gets here) cold. Someone once said of the bike that it was a
convertible i.e. a rag top . 

The site , hupi.org, does not seem to have the ability to upload pictures and I never open any email
attachments unless I have to so I would not expect anyone else to either but I do belong to some yahoo groups
that do. Is this something that might interest you or others in the group? If so do any of you in the group
belong to any of the following yahoo groups : http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vision-bent-owners/ ,
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RECUMBENT_RIDERS_OF_SACRAMENTO/  ,  or 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarFree/ 

I have images of my bike in those groups and if anyone reading this belongs to any of those, i.e. most likely
carfree, it would be fairly easy to pick out my bike from the many albums.
If there is interest in my version of an automobile substitute I would be glad to attach images to future
e-mails for you to risk opening. 

The car free yahoo group album needs a few more recent images but if you belong

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CarFree/photos/album/1988420494/pic/159614997/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc 

I write descriptions when I post images because even though an image is worth a thousand words a few words
goes a long way to helping describe what I wanted to show in the image and even why sometimes. 
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(Continue reading)


Gmane