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Satish Arigela | 1 Mar 2012 06:24
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Re: ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

shrIH

>I would have appreciated your lengthy response if it had contained 
even a bit of Vedanta as taught by Shankara.  It is this we are 
discussing and bringing in >everything unrelated to Vedanta is simply a 
waste of time of the members of this List.

Kindly wake up... we are discussing upAsana and bhakti in that thread. not vedAnta. Please see the very last comments.

Anymore peddling of those muddled, confused & mixed up views... I 
will be even more direct in my criticism of the same.

That is --exactly-- why I said, people who are still living in the cocoon of "my tradition has everything and
I need not look elsewhere" find this 
very hard to understand.

It is perfectly alright to be 
ignorant about something. I personally doubt if I can know even half of 
the good things that you are an expert at, given your knowledge & thoroughness on some 
topics. But unfortunately there is more you need to consider when it 
comes to this particular topic and your views are extremely narrow, 
flatly opposed to reality and are not anywhere close to being correct.

>My view is Upasana seeks worldly objectives -and mainly by 
>artharthies.

This is completely wrong. An upAsaka may or not may not seek worldly objectives,

>Upasana slowly will elevate the upasaka to be  a Bhakthiman in 
>which stage he will come to realise that these worldly pleasures and assets
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rajaramvenk | 1 Mar 2012 08:53
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Re: ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

Does an upsakaka who has ultimately attained oneness with the deity, love the deity? Does anyone not love
oneself? So, even the limited definition of bhakti as prema applies to upasana.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: Satish Arigela <satisharigela <at> yahoo.com>
Sender: advaita-l-bounces <at> lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 21:24:05 
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l <at> lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: Satish Arigela <satisharigela <at> yahoo.com>,
	A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
	<advaita-l <at> lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

shrIH

>I would have appreciated your lengthy response if it had contained 
even a bit of Vedanta as taught by Shankara.  It is this we are 
discussing and bringing in >everything unrelated to Vedanta is simply a 
waste of time of the members of this List.

Kindly wake up... we are discussing upAsana and bhakti in that thread. not vedAnta. Please see the very last comments.

Anymore peddling of those muddled, confused & mixed up views... I 
will be even more direct in my criticism of the same.

That is --exactly-- why I said, people who are still living in the cocoon of "my tradition has everything and
I need not look elsewhere" find this 
very hard to understand.
(Continue reading)

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Satish Arigela | 1 Mar 2012 09:17
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Re: ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

What is with this fixation of love? I just don't get it. It can get a little annoying when people do not let go of
their narrow impressions and rub them to everything without any discrimination.

To answer your question. No. Nothing like "loving a deity" or "hating a non-deity" is involved. There is
pure awareness of the deity beyond any bhAva. Beyond love and hate.

Only those attain unity with the deity who can immerse themselves completely in the mantra to the point that
they forget what they are, At this stage the questions of love hate etc do not arise.

________________________________
 From: "rajaramvenk <at> gmail.com" <rajaramvenk <at> gmail.com>
To: Satish Arigela <satisharigela <at> yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
<advaita-l <at> lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

Does an upsakaka who has ultimately attained oneness with the deity, love the deity? Does anyone not love
oneself? So, even the limited definition of bhakti as prema applies to upasana.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: Satish Arigela <satisharigela <at> yahoo.com>
Sender: advaita-l-bounces <at> lists.advaita-vedanta.org
Date: Wed, 29 Feb 2012 21:24:05 
To: A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l <at> lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: Satish Arigela <satisharigela <at> yahoo.com>,
    A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
    <advaita-l <at> lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'
(Continue reading)

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rajaramvenk | 1 Mar 2012 09:27
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Re: ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

That state is what is called suddha bhakti or prema beyond bhava bhakti. There is no non-deity in that state
of oneness. 
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device

-----Original Message-----
From: Satish Arigela <satisharigela <at> yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2012 00:17:55 
To: rajaramvenk <at> gmail.com<rajaramvenk <at> gmail.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta<advaita-l <at> lists.advaita-vedanta.org>
Reply-To: Satish Arigela <satisharigela <at> yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

What is with this fixation of love? I just don't get it. It can get a little annoying when people do not let go of
their narrow impressions and rub them to everything without any discrimination.

To answer your question. No. Nothing like "loving a deity" or "hating a non-deity" is involved. There is
pure awareness of the deity beyond any bhAva. Beyond love and hate.

Only those attain unity with the deity who can immerse themselves completely in the mantra to the point that
they forget what they are, At this stage the questions of love hate etc do not arise.

________________________________
 From: "rajaramvenk <at> gmail.com" <rajaramvenk <at> gmail.com>
To: Satish Arigela <satisharigela <at> yahoo.com>; A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta
<advaita-l <at> lists.advaita-vedanta.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 1, 2012 1:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

Does an upsakaka who has ultimately attained oneness with the deity, love the deity? Does anyone not love
oneself? So, even the limited definition of bhakti as prema applies to upasana.
Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device
(Continue reading)

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Bhaskar YR | 1 Mar 2012 09:56
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Re: ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

There is pure awareness of the deity beyond any bhAva. Beyond love and 
hate.

praNAms Sri Satish prabhuji
Hare Krishna

Sorry, I need little elaboration here.  Do you mean to say here it is just 
a 'business-like' relationship between upAsaka & upAsya devata??  Without 
any bhAva/love/bhakti does he simply ask his upAsya devata, I've done 
these things  for you, just give me these things in return !!  IMHO, 
upAsana can not be carried out  without an element of love/bhakti towards 
his/her upAsya devata, that anyway, may be my limited understanding of 
'upAsana' as you are insisting in your replies.

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar
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Ramakrishna Upadrasta | 1 Mar 2012 10:35
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Re: ADMIN -- Please restrict to two posts per day

namaste,

When clubbing together the replies to different posters, maybe under
the same subject, kindly do not remove the initial part of the reply
which hints who wrote that particular text. It helps readers to
correlate to some extant "who is saying what". Without this, the mails
become a quick mash of opinions and counter opinions difficult to
track.

Further, it is helpful if the text quoted by you of the previous
poster has > symbol at the beginning of each line, and the text typed
by you does not have the same.

namaste
Ramakrishna

2012/2/29 Jaldhar H. Vyas <jaldhar@...>:
> For each member.  If you wish to reply to multiple messages on one subject
> cut and paste to combine them into one longer message.
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Venkatesh Murthy | 1 Mar 2012 10:59
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Re: ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

Namaste

Your description is matching the women in the temple dancing in front
of the Deity like Durga. The Deity has entered into the body of the
woman and she becomes that for some time. She will think she is not
the woman but Durga only. But after some time the Deity will leave the
body of the woman. Then she will say I don't remember what happened.

But Deity entering into the body is common in many places. This is not
same as Bhakti but something like Black magic.

Bhakti is better than Black Magic. Because Love of Paramatma is not
temporary like the Black Magic. It is permanent. The feeling of Love
is Permanent. It is not entering into the body and leaving after some
time. Bhakti is Sattvika way of pleasing the Deity.

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 1:47 PM, Satish Arigela
<satisharigela@...> wrote:
> What is with this fixation of love? I just don't get it. It can get a little annoying when people do not let go
of their narrow impressions and rub them to everything without any discrimination.
>
>
> To answer your question. No. Nothing like "loving a deity" or "hating a non-deity" is involved. There is
pure awareness of the deity beyond any bhAva. Beyond love and hate.
>
> Only those attain unity with the deity who can immerse themselves completely in the mantra to the point
that they forget what they are, At this stage the questions of love hate etc do not arise.
>
>
>
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V Subrahmanian | 1 Mar 2012 11:23
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Re: ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

On Thu, Mar 1, 2012 at 2:26 PM, Bhaskar YR <bhaskar.yr <at> in.abb.com> wrote:

> There is pure awareness of the deity beyond any bhAva. Beyond love and
> hate.
>
> praNAms Sri Satish prabhuji
> Hare Krishna
>

>   IMHO, upAsana can not be carried out  without an element of love/bhakti
> towards his/her upAsya devata,
>

In Vedanta, bhakti is perhaps best characterized thus in these verses of
the Tenth chapter of the Bhagavadgita:

 अहं सर्वस्य प्रभवो मत्तः सर्वं
प्रवर्तते ।
इति मत्वा *भजन्ते मां बुधा
भावसमन्विताः* ॥

 भावार्थ *:*  मैं वासुदेव ही संपूर्ण
जगत्‌ की उत्पत्ति का कारण हूँ और मुझसे
ही सब जगत्‌ चेष्टा करता है, इस प्रकार
समझकर श्रद्धा और भक्ति से युक्त
बुद्धिमान्‌ भक्तजन मुझ परमेश्वर को
ही निरंतर भजते हैं॥8॥

  मच्चित्ता मद्गतप्राणा बोधयन्तः
परस्परम्‌ ।
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Bhaskar YR | 1 Mar 2012 13:18
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Re: ’upAsana' and 'bhakti'

In Vedanta, bhakti is perhaps best characterized thus in these verses of
the Tenth chapter of the Bhagavadgita:

praNAms
Hare Krishna

And we can also recall bhagavAn's assurance in verse : 
ananyAschintayantOmAm ye janAH paryupAsate...However, I think,  these are 
all within the scope of veda / vedAntic sAdhana for chitta shuddhi.  But 
what Sri Satish prabhuji emphasizing ( and to the extent Sri Ramesh 
prabhuji) is something 'new' to most of us.  If what they are telling 
falls  outside the scope of veda/vedAntic  sAdhana/upAsana, then we dont 
have to scratch our heads but we can learn from them only from the 
academic point of view. 

Hari Hari Hari Bol!!!
bhaskar
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V Subrahmanian | 1 Mar 2012 19:07
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NAgalingam bhajeham - A beautiful song by Muthuswamy Dikshitar

A nice composition in Sanskrit.

The lyrics are available here:

http://guru-guha.blogspot.in/2007/12/dikshitar-kriti-naaga-lingam-bhajeham.html#Devanagari

A very significant line here is: Agma shAstra purANa prasangam
avidyA-bhangam ati-dhavaLAngam

This means: This Lingam is the cause/source (shAstrayonitvAt) of the Agama
shAstra purANa (the entire scriptural lore) destroys AvidyA and is an
embodiment of purity.  In Advaita the stage up to enlightenment is within
the realm of mAyA.  And this climax of destruction of avidya is enabled by
the Lord, Ishwara.  Effecting this, the entire samsara including the
Ruler-ruled duality gets sublated.

The song can be heard here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMuq6jro-T0
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMuq6jro-T0>

A source for more compositions of several other composers too:

http://guru-guha.blogspot.in/2009/04/dikshitar-kritis-alphabetical-list.html

Om Tat Sat
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Gmane