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Ramakrishna Upadrasta | 1 Jun 2010 21:07
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Re: gItA bhaashhya sudhaa bindavaH - 2

namaste Shri Subbu-ji,

Thanks for the comments.

2010/5/31 V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian@...>:
> On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Ramakrishna Upadrasta <
> uramakrishna@...> wrote:

>>
>> 7. na hi atra yuddhakartavyataa vidhiiyate\, yuddha pravR^itta eva hi
>> asau shokamohapratibaddhaH tushhNiimaaste | ataH tasya
>> pratibandhaapanayanamaatraM bhagavataa kR^iyate | tasmaat 'yudhyasva'
>> iti anuvaadamaatram\, na vidhiH || 2.18 ||
>>
>>
>> ##Here, there is no injunction to take up the war as a duty, because
>> he (Arjuna), though he was determined for war, remains silent as a
>> result of being overpowered by sorrow and delusion. Therefore, all
>> that is being done by the Lord is the removal of the obstruction of
>> his duty. "Therefore, join the battle" is only an approval, not an
>> injunction.##
>>

> There is the Shaankara sUtra bhashya vaakyam:  shAstram jnApakam, na
> kaarakam.  The scripture is playing the role of 'reminding' or  'informing'
> the aspirant of a certain mode of action, its benefits, etc.  It does not
> force him into doing it.  The ultimate decision is left to the individual.
> This is where free will plays a great role. In this process, since the
> Shaastra is aiming at our 'hitam', ultimate good, it provides all help in
> seeing that we are equipped, enabled, in treading the path it holds out as
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S Jayanarayanan | 1 Jun 2010 23:52
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Temple Worship by all

There are specific rules laid down in the Shruti and Smriti that only Brahmins should officiate as priests
in Yajnas and Homas. But are there similar commands laid down in the scriptures (in the Agamas for
instance) that only Brahmins can perform priestly temple worship?

I got this question when I was reading about saint Kannappa, who though born as a hunter, worshipped in a
Shiva temple where a Brahmin was the "official" priest. Is this story not evidence that all castes are
permitted to **physically worship** in the temples? I'm not talking about mental devotion alone, but
also things like performing Abhishekam, Aradhana etc.

If one claims that "Kannappa was a great saint and hence an exception to the general rule", I must point out
that it was Thinnan (Kannappa's name before Shiva appeared before him) who began worship at the Shiva
temple. Thinnan was only a hunter who perchance happened upon a Shiva temple and then began his Sadhana of
worshipping the Shiva Linga on a regular basis.

Ramana Maharshi was very attracted to the story of Kannappa and has narrated it on occasion.

Regards,
Kartik
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Sunil Bhattacharjya | 2 Jun 2010 17:24
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Re: gItA bhaashhya sudhaa bindavaH - 2

Dear Ramakrishnaji,
 
Yes Bhagavad Gita is Vedanta Shastra. The Lord starts from Sankhya and leads us to Vedanta. Interestingly
Sanjaya tells us at the end that the Lord had distiiled all from Agama and Nigama. I think our member friends
will like to comment on this.
 
Regards,
 
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Tue, 6/1/10, Ramakrishna Upadrasta <uramakrishna@...> wrote:

From: Ramakrishna Upadrasta <uramakrishna@...>
Subject: Re: [Advaita-l] gItA bhaashhya sudhaa bindavaH - 2
To: "A discussion group for Advaita Vedanta" <advaita-l@...ta.org>
Date: Tuesday, June 1, 2010, 12:07 PM

namaste Shri Subbu-ji,

Thanks for the comments.

2010/5/31 V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian@...>:
> On Sun, May 30, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Ramakrishna Upadrasta <
> uramakrishna@...> wrote:

>>
>> 7. na hi atra yuddhakartavyataa vidhiiyate\, yuddha pravR^itta eva hi
>> asau shokamohapratibaddhaH tushhNiimaaste | ataH tasya
>> pratibandhaapanayanamaatraM bhagavataa kR^iyate | tasmaat 'yudhyasva'
>> iti anuvaadamaatram\, na vidhiH || 2.18 ||
(Continue reading)

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Sunil Bhattacharjya | 2 Jun 2010 17:33
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Re: Temple Worship by all

Dear friends, 
 
I understand that Kamakshya also has non-brahmin priest. The anecdote is like this. When the brahmin
 priest there, a great devotee, worshipped the deity she was very pleased andd she  use to dance. The
King hear about that and aske to show that dance to him. The priest told the king to see that secretly. The
deity became angry and sai that brahmin priest should not worship her. Or there can be other reasons.
 
Regards,
 
Sunil K. Bhattacharjya

--- On Tue, 6/1/10, S Jayanarayanan <sjayana@...> wrote:

From: S Jayanarayanan <sjayana@...>
Subject: [Advaita-l] Temple Worship by all
To: advaita-l@...
Date: Tuesday, June 1, 2010, 2:52 PM

There are specific rules laid down in the Shruti and Smriti that only Brahmins should officiate as priests
in Yajnas and Homas. But are there similar commands laid down in the scriptures (in the Agamas for
instance) that only Brahmins can perform priestly temple worship?

I got this question when I was reading about saint Kannappa, who though born as a hunter, worshipped in a
Shiva temple where a Brahmin was the "official" priest. Is this story not evidence that all castes are
permitted to **physically worship** in the temples? I'm not talking about mental devotion alone, but
also things like performing Abhishekam, Aradhana etc.

If one claims that "Kannappa was a great saint and hence an exception to the general rule", I must point out
that it was Thinnan (Kannappa's name before Shiva appeared before him) who began worship at the Shiva
temple. Thinnan was only a hunter who perchance happened upon a Shiva temple and then began his Sadhana of
(Continue reading)

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Ramakrishna Upadrasta | 2 Jun 2010 17:34
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Re: gItA bhaashhya sudhaa bindavaH - 2

namaste Sunil-ji,

2010/6/2 Sunil Bhattacharjya <sunil_bhattacharjya@...>:
> Dear Ramakrishnaji,
>
> Yes Bhagavad Gita is Vedanta Shastra. The Lord starts from Sankhya and leads us to Vedanta. Interestingly
Sanjaya tells us at the end that the Lord had distiiled all from Agama and Nigama. I think our member friends
will like to comment on this.

Yes, the the famous 'sarvopanishhado-gaavo-doghdaa-gopaala-nandanaH'
is reflected in the AchArya-ji's comments in the introduction, His
comments on 11.55 as well as at the end of 15th chapter.

praNAmaH
Ramakrishna
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V Subrahmanian | 2 Jun 2010 19:05
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Re: gItA bhaashhya sudhaa bindavaH - 2

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Ramakrishna Upadrasta <
uramakrishna@...> wrote:

>
> Also, the above sentence of the AchArya means that gItA is a vedanta
> shaastra, a moxa shaastra, and not a mImAMsa-shaastra (which enjoins
> one to do action) with its apUrva/vidhi/nishhedha categories. Now,
> Arjuna had come to battle ready to fight and became sorrowful after
> seeing his relations. The teaching of the gItA shaastra removed the
> sorrow that was previously non-existent, with GYAna as the solution to
> the shoka-moha of saMsaara. The Gita teaching did not create a new
> situation which lead Arjuna to act. I think that is the point that
> AchArya is making.
>
> praNAmaH
> Ramakrishna
>

Namaste.

In verse 18.63 the Lord says: I have given the most sacred, secret, teaching
to you.  For your part, analyse  this thoroughly and do what you deem fit to
do.

So, the Lord leaves the action part of it to Arjuna's will, decision.  So,
in the Vedanta shAstra too, karma yoga being an indispensable part of it,
the ultimate decision rests in the aspirant, doer.  Also, even in the
context of 'brahma jijnAsA', desire to know Brahman, they have discussed the
issue: whether anyone can injunct, command, someone to 'desire'?  For,
desire is something that has to come from within the person, who after
(Continue reading)

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V Subrahmanian | 2 Jun 2010 19:37
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Re: Temple Worship by all

On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 3:22 AM, S Jayanarayanan <sjayana@...> wrote:

> There are specific rules laid down in the Shruti and Smriti that only
> Brahmins should officiate as priests in Yajnas and Homas. But are there
> similar commands laid down in the scriptures (in the Agamas for instance)
> that only Brahmins can perform priestly temple worship?
>
> I got this question when I was reading about saint Kannappa, who though
> born as a hunter, worshipped in a Shiva temple where a Brahmin was the
> "official" priest. Is this story not evidence that all castes are permitted
> to **physically worship** in the temples? I'm not talking about mental
> devotion alone, but also things like performing Abhishekam, Aradhana etc.
>

Namaste Karthik,

The story of Thinnan, as reported in the saivam.org site:
http://www.shaivam.org/nakannap.html  says that Thinnan was doing the
worship, in his own way, of offering meat, etc. which was not to the liking
of the official priest.  The latter would clean all this and do the
'permitted' mode of worship and Thinnan, for his turn, would come and clear
up all this and offer his own kind of worship.

// *As he left for hunting, there came the sage by name shivakOchariyAr ,
who worships that Healing Herb on the hill in the way that is said in holy
scriptures.* He was shocked at the sight of strewn bones and flesh in front
of the Lord. He screamed, "it should be the act of those dreadful hunters",
he concluded. He cleaned the altar carefully, took bath in the river and
came back fast. As the unholy materials entered there he consecrated His
abode continued his * pUja * performing the anointing, flower worship, light
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Ramakrishna Upadrasta | 2 Jun 2010 21:21
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Re: gItA bhaashhya sudhaa bindavaH - 2

namaste Shri Subbu-ji,

Thanks again for the comments.

2010/6/2 V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian@...>:
> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 12:37 AM, Ramakrishna Upadrasta <
> uramakrishna@...> wrote:
>
>>
>> Also, the above sentence of the AchArya means that gItA is a vedanta
>> shaastra, a moxa shaastra, and not a mImAMsa-shaastra (which enjoins
>> one to do action) with its apUrva/vidhi/nishhedha categories. Now,
>> Arjuna had come to battle ready to fight and became sorrowful after
>> seeing his relations. The teaching of the gItA shaastra removed the
>> sorrow that was previously non-existent, with GYAna as the solution to
>> the shoka-moha of saMsaara. The Gita teaching did not create a new
>> situation which lead Arjuna to act. I think that is the point that
>> AchArya is making.
>>

> However, the shastra also says that it is better for one to desire to get
> it.  Still it is just in an advisory position alone; not in any commanding
> position.  It is said that in the shastra 'vidhi', injunction is:  ajnAta
> jnApanam vidhiH - the instructing, reminding, of what is not known is called
> an injunction.  With this knowledge in hand, it is upto the aspirant to

Isn't this only the apUrva vidhi category? What about other kinds of
vidhis (niyama/parisaMkhya)? I think that AchArya is saying that what
bhagavaan is teaching to Arjuna is not just a non-apUrva-vidhi, but
also a non-niyama vidhi and non-parisaMkhya-vidhi too (Sorry for this
(Continue reading)

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S Jayanarayanan | 3 Jun 2010 03:39
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Re: Temple Worship by all

--- On Wed, 6/2/10, V Subrahmanian <v.subrahmanian@...> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 2, 2010 at 3:22 AM, S
> Jayanarayanan <sjayana@...>
> wrote:
> 
> > There are specific rules laid down in the Shruti and
> Smriti that only
> > Brahmins should officiate as priests in Yajnas and
> Homas. But are there
> > similar commands laid down in the scriptures (in the
> Agamas for instance)
> > that only Brahmins can perform priestly temple
> worship?
> >
> > I got this question when I was reading about saint
> Kannappa, who though
> > born as a hunter, worshipped in a Shiva temple where a
> Brahmin was the
> > "official" priest. Is this story not evidence that all
> castes are permitted
> > to **physically worship** in the temples? I'm not
> talking about mental
> > devotion alone, but also things like performing
> Abhishekam, Aradhana etc.
> >
> 
> Namaste Karthik,
> 
> The story of Thinnan, as reported in the saivam.org site:
(Continue reading)

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Ramakrishna Upadrasta | 3 Jun 2010 09:52
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Re: Temple Worship by all

2010/6/3 S Jayanarayanan <sjayana@...>:

>>
>> > There are specific rules laid down in the Shruti and
>> Smriti that only
>> > Brahmins should officiate as priests in Yajnas and
>> Homas. But are there
>> > similar commands laid down in the scriptures (in the
>> Agamas for instance)
>> > that only Brahmins can perform priestly temple
>> worship?

> For one thing, it was a theoretical question - whether or not temple worship in the physical sense of
Abhishekam, Aradhana, etc. was forbidden to castes other than Brahmins as per the scriptures. I still
haven't received an answer for this.
>
> Secondly, there are many temples where priests are not Brahmins that even I personally am aware of
(surmise there should be dozens if not hundreds of such temples in reality). There are Shiva linga shrines
around the Arunachala mountain where the priests are not Brahmins. I also know of a Vishnu temple in South
India where the priest is not a Brahmin. I was wondering what the scripture says about priestly worship in
such temples.
>

namaste,

In this aspect, I would also like to know when are the murti's in the
sanctum-sanctorum allowed to be touched by everyone, while in some
places, they are not.

I remember being told by vidvaan that the answers to the original
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Gmane