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Anand Hudli | 29 Jun 2011 04:26
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(Alleged) Internal Inconsistencies in the Advaita Tradition

It is clear that all explanations within advaita on jIva and Ishvara have
the following common approach. All the AchAryas agree that the Undivided
Brahman-Atman, One with a second and the Self of all, is the only reality
there is and realization of that Atman is liberation. Now, what needs to be
explained are jIva, Ishvara, and the world. Who is Ishvara? Who is jIva? How
did this world come into being? Is there one jIva or many jIvas? In
explaining these, mAyA has to enter the picture, because mAyA makes the
Undivided Brahman appear as many. It is not possible to explain these
concepts without reference to mAyA. In explaining them, the AchAryas have
chosen different methodologies (prakriyA's), based on the shruti, of course.
Does this mean there is inconsistency within the tradition? No.

The very first verse of the siddhAntaleshasangraha is relevant here.

adhigatabhidA pUrvAchAryAnupetya sahasradhA saridiva mahIbhedAn.h saMprApya
shauripadodgatA | jayati bhagavatpAdashrImanmukhAMbujanirgatA jananaharaNI
sUktirbrahmAdvayaikaparAyaNA ||

The teachings that have emanated from the mouth of Shankara BhagavatpAda are
like the gaN^ga that springs from the foot of ViShNu. Just as the same river
branches out into tributaries due to variations in the characteristics of
the land where the water flows, so also, due to variations in the learning
(background) of the AchAryas earlier (than myself), there are many prakriyAs
within the advaita system. (The conclusion of every prakriyA is the same as
every AchArya has accepted the conclusion of Shankara's teachings.) This
advaita teaching, which destroys birth (saMsAra) and which has the
attainment of the nondual Brahman as its objective, is  victorious.

Here, I would like to reproduce the quote, which I originally posted in this
list in August 2005:
(Continue reading)

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Venkatesh Murthy | 29 Jun 2011 06:10
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Re: Modern science and Vedanta

विशिष्टं ज्ञानं विज्ञानम् ।
कस्यचिदपि विषयस्य पदार्थस्य वा
प्रत्यवयवानां विवेचनेन प्राप्तं
ज्ञानं विज्ञानम् । सांप्रतिकं युगं
विज्ञानस्य  युगमस्ति । अस्मिन् युगे
विज्ञानं अत्यन्तशक्तिरुपमस्ति ।
युगे अस्मिन्
भक्षणश्रवणभ्रमणप्रेषणगमनशयनादिकार्याणि
विज्ञानेन विना
अस्वाभाविकानि प्रतीयन्ते । तेन
मानावानां बहूपकारः कृतः ।

यथा एकतः विज्ञानं मानवानां कृते
अनेकलाभान् लाति तथैव तेन बहवः हानयः
अपि दृश्यन्ते । अपकृतानि
लक्ष्यन्ते । विज्ञानेन निर्मितानि
युद्धयन्त्राणि मानवानां
विनाशकराणि सन्ति ।  यदि कदाचित् परमाणुयुद्धं
प्रारभ्यते तर्हि विश्वस्य
प्रलयमपि निश्चितमस्ति । मानवानां चतुर्षु
दिक्षु वातावरणं दोषयुक्तं भवति ।
तेन अनेकाः व्याधयः प्रादुर्भूताः
भवन्ति । विज्ञानस्य प्रभावेण जीवनं
धर्महीनं चरित्रहीनं स्वास्थ्यहीनं
मनोबलहीनं कर्मठताहीनं सालसं च
दृश्यते । अस्य प्रभावेण जनाः केवलं
घोरभौतिकवादिनः चार्वाकाः वा
भवन्ति यस्मात् कारणात् तेषां ध्यानं
स्वल्पमपि आध्यात्मिकविषये नास्ति
। एतादृशाः जनाः कथं समुन्नतिं कर्तुं
(Continue reading)

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Satish Arigela | 29 Jun 2011 06:58
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Re: Nodern science and Vedanta

>With introduction of pa~Ncaayatana puujaa he
>tred to unite various groups and cults ( saiva, vaiShNava, gaaNapatya, 
>devi uapaasaka ....etc).

 i seriously doubt shankara's relationship with pa~nchAyatana. Most likely this 
came after shankara.

There is no evidence to say he united various cults.
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Rajaram Venkataramani | 29 Jun 2011 07:49
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Re: Modern science and Vedanta

All dots. How to get sanskrit on blackberry?

On 29/06/2011, Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 <at> gmail.com> wrote:
> विशिष्टं ज्ञानं विज्ञानम् ।
कस्यचिदपि विषयस्य पदार्थस्य वा
> प्रत्यवयवानां विवेचनेन प्राप्तं
ज्ञानं विज्ञानम् । सांप्रतिकं युगं
> विज्ञानस्य  युगमस्ति । अस्मिन्
युगे विज्ञानं
अत्यन्तशक्तिरुपमस्ति ।
> युगे अस्मिन्
भक्षणश्रवणभ्रमणप्रेषणगमनशयनादिकार्याणि
विज्ञानेन विना
> अस्वाभाविकानि प्रतीयन्ते । तेन
मानावानां बहूपकारः कृतः ।
>
> यथा एकतः विज्ञानं मानवानां कृते
अनेकलाभान् लाति तथैव तेन बहवः हानयः
> अपि दृश्यन्ते । अपकृतानि
लक्ष्यन्ते । विज्ञानेन निर्मितानि
> युद्धयन्त्राणि मानवानां
विनाशकराणि सन्ति ।  यदि कदाचित् परमाणुयुद्धं
> प्रारभ्यते तर्हि विश्वस्य
प्रलयमपि निश्चितमस्ति । मानवानां चतुर्षु
> दिक्षु वातावरणं दोषयुक्तं भवति ।
तेन अनेकाः व्याधयः प्रादुर्भूताः
> भवन्ति । विज्ञानस्य प्रभावेण
जीवनं धर्महीनं चरित्रहीनं स्वास्थ्यहीनं
> मनोबलहीनं कर्मठताहीनं सालसं च
दृश्यते । अस्य प्रभावेण जनाः केवलं
(Continue reading)

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Venkatesh Murthy | 29 Jun 2011 11:49
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Re: Taittiriya Brahmana question

नमस्ते

सर्वं स्पष्टम् । धन्यवादः ।

2011/6/27 Anand Hudli <anandhudli <at> hotmail.com>:
> ब्रह्म जगदाकारेण परिणमते किम्? न।
"नेह नानास्ति किञ्चन"
> इत्यादिश्रुतिबलान्निर्गुणं
निर्विकारं निरवयवं
निष्क्रियमद्वितीयं ब्रह्म जगतः
> परिणामिकारणमिति वक्तुं न
शक्नुमः। यद्यप्यद्वैतमते ब्रह्मणो
> जगदुपादानत्वमङ्गीकृतं तथापि
तदुपादानत्वं
जगदध्यासाधिष्ठानत्वं, न
> परिणामिकारणम्। अथवा ब्रह्मण
उपादानत्वं जगदाकारेण परिणममाणमायाधिष्ठानत्वम्।
> अत एवोक्तं
पदार्थतत्वनिर्णयकारैः -
> ब्रह्म माया चेत्युभयमुपादानमित्युभयश्रुत्युपपत्तिः
>
सत्ताजाड्यरूपोभयधर्मानुगत्युपपत्तिश्च।
तत्र ब्रह्म विवर्तमानतयोपादानम्,
> अविद्या परिणममानतया।
>
> अथ को विवर्तः, कः परिणामः? उच्यते -
वस्तुनस्तत्समसत्ताकोऽन्यथाभावः परिणामः,
> तदसमसत्ताको विवर्त इति। ब्रह्मणः
पारमार्थिकसत्ता परंतु जगतो व्यावहारिकसत्ता,
> तस्मात् ब्रह्म जगतो
(Continue reading)

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V Subrahmanian | 29 Jun 2011 12:33
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Re: Taittiriya Brahmana question

2011/6/29 Venkatesh Murthy <vmurthy36 <at> gmail.com>

> नमस्ते
>
> सर्वं स्पष्टम् । धन्यवादः ।
>
> 2011/6/27 Anand Hudli <anandhudli <at> hotmail.com>:
>
> >
> > अथ को विवर्तः, कः परिणामः? उच्यते - वस्तुनस्तत्समसत्ताकोऽन्यथाभावः
> परिणामः,
> > तदसमसत्ताको विवर्त इति।* ब्रह्मणः
पारमार्थिकसत्ता परंतु जगतो
> व्यावहारिकसत्ता,*
> > ......शुक्तिरजतादिभ्रमेऽपि
शुक्तेर्व्यावहारिकसत्ता *रजतस्य तु
> प्रातिभासिकसत्ता,* तस्मात् रजतस्य
विवर्तकारणं शुक्तिः ।
> >
> अभिवादाः
>
> -वेङ्कटेशः
>

>
> In a recent Dvaita-Advaita meet a front-ranking Dvaita scholar made this
remark:

'It is indeed strange that while we the jagat-satyatva vAdins deny any
reality to the illusory object in a rope-snake type of illusion, the
(Continue reading)

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श्रीमल्ललितालालितः | 29 Jun 2011 18:22
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Re: Taittiriya Brahmana question

*श्रीमल्ललितालालितः <http://www.lalitaalaalitah.com>
lalitAlAlitaH <http://about.me/lalitaalaalitah/bio>*

2011/6/27 D.V.N.Sarma డి.వి.ఎన్.శర్మ <dvnsarma <at> gmail.com>

> THis is not a list devoted to Sanskrit language.

Is it devoted to English Language ?

> The list is for adwaita.
>
Sure.

> There are a number of people who do not know sanskrit.

And there are a lot who are comfortable with it.

> Remember
> we have quite a few foreigners also.

We have Indians too.

> Quotations in sanskrit are in order
> provided their meaning in english is  also supplied.

OK.

> But posts completely
> in sanskrit , I do not think, are in consonance with the aims of the list.
>
(Continue reading)

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Dr. Yadu Moharir | 29 Jun 2011 18:34
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Re: Nodern science and Vedanta

Namaste:

You may very well be correct, but History of Dharmashastra P.V. Kane, 
Mahamaaopaadhyaaya citravashastri, mahamahopaadhyaa lakshmanshastri as 
well as Mahaadeva shastri Joshi attribute the pa~nacaayatana puujaa to 
Shankaara.

It is possible that this case may be similar to attributing all puaraaNaa's to Sage Vyasa.

Any authentic or authoritative references would be certainly be helpful.and appreciated.

Having said all this one cannot help but appreciate the efforts of "advaita" followers who depersonalized
the conventional iconic humanized representation with various deities using stones from gaNDaki,
narmaada ......... etc.  
Does this not contribute towards the use and practice of advaitic principles for creating a harmonious society?

Dr. Yadu

****************************************

http://en.vionto.com/show/me/Panchayatana+puja

http://www.advaita-vedanta.org/articles/panchayatana_puja.htm

Udasi sect also follows something similar philosophy:

The Udasi sect follows the Panchayatana traditions. These followers, like mainstream Sikhs, believe in
Sri Guru Granth Sahib (Sacred Text of the Sikhs) which the Udasis interpret according to Vedanta
philosophy and therefore take part in both Nirgun Pooja (of reading 
Gurbani from Sikh texts and fixing the mind on the omnipresent,
(Continue reading)

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Rajaram Venkataramani | 29 Jun 2011 19:06
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Re: (Alleged) Internal Inconsistencies in the Advaita Tradition

Yup - agree.

On 29/06/2011, Anand Hudli <anandhudli <at> hotmail.com> wrote:
> It is clear that all explanations within advaita on jIva and Ishvara have
> the following common approach. All the AchAryas agree that the Undivided
> Brahman-Atman, One with a second and the Self of all, is the only reality
> there is and realization of that Atman is liberation. Now, what needs to be
> explained are jIva, Ishvara, and the world. Who is Ishvara? Who is jIva? How
> did this world come into being? Is there one jIva or many jIvas? In
> explaining these, mAyA has to enter the picture, because mAyA makes the
> Undivided Brahman appear as many. It is not possible to explain these
> concepts without reference to mAyA. In explaining them, the AchAryas have
> chosen different methodologies (prakriyA's), based on the shruti, of course.
> Does this mean there is inconsistency within the tradition? No.
>
> The very first verse of the siddhAntaleshasangraha is relevant here.
>
> adhigatabhidA pUrvAchAryAnupetya sahasradhA saridiva mahIbhedAn.h saMprApya
> shauripadodgatA | jayati bhagavatpAdashrImanmukhAMbujanirgatA jananaharaNI
> sUktirbrahmAdvayaikaparAyaNA ||
>
> The teachings that have emanated from the mouth of Shankara BhagavatpAda are
> like the gaN^ga that springs from the foot of ViShNu. Just as the same river
> branches out into tributaries due to variations in the characteristics of
> the land where the water flows, so also, due to variations in the learning
> (background) of the AchAryas earlier (than myself), there are many prakriyAs
> within the advaita system. (The conclusion of every prakriyA is the same as
> every AchArya has accepted the conclusion of Shankara's teachings.) This
> advaita teaching, which destroys birth (saMsAra) and which has the
> attainment of the nondual Brahman as its objective, is  victorious.
(Continue reading)

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Shyam | 29 Jun 2011 20:35
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Re: (Alleged) Internal Inconsistencies in the Advaita Tradition

Pranams Rajaram

If you examine Sankara's commentary in the very excerpt I alluded to - what does 
He say? - vid. "He (the Lord) stands within the realm of the phenomenal 
vyavaharavishaye in the relation of a ruler to the so-called jivAs or 
cognitional Selfs - vijnanatmanah, which indeed are one with his own Self 
svatmabhutaneva--just as the portions of ether enclosed in jars and the like are 
one with the universal ether- but are limited by the assemblage of bodies and 
senses produced from name and form - namarupakrta karyakaranasanghatanurodhino - 
and that are conjured up by Avidya avidyapratyupasita" he clearly talks about 
the relation of many jivAs being in essence One and more so that One Self being 
non-different from the Lord. Be it abhasa vada, pratibimba vada, or avaccheda 
vada, all these prakriyas find resonance and legitimacy across the breadth of 
the AchAryA's prasthana trayi bhashyas - which latter then renders reconcilatory 
recourses rendundant.

And what is the sampradaya really speaking? What is its role or purpose? Is it a 
geopolitical entity entrusted with the task of listing a charter of mutually 
agreed upon postulates concerning metaphysical truths? I do not believe so - 
what it is simply an unbroken lineage based on a teaching methodology, in 
Upanisadic instruction handed down by the revered Bhagawatpada. The recipient 
for this teaching, the student is not merely a jijnasu, but much more 
critically, a mumukshu, whose singlepointed pursuit is moksha, and moksha alone. 
His aim then is at the paramartha, the vyavahara he already knows only too well 
to be his inescapable reality!.....on that score, understanding whether his 
jivahood status is on account of a destitute reflection or an imprisoned 
limitation makes not an iota of difference to his intolerable samsAra-bhAvA, 
which alone he seeks to transcend.

An elaborate expertise in and knowledge of these seemingly diverse prakriyas can
(Continue reading)

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