Dewayne Dulaney | 1 Mar 02:51 2011
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Practice in Biblical Hebrew Composition & Communication

!שלום
Shalom!

I would like to practice communicating in Biblical Hebrew (on a very
simple level at first) with any interested list member. I am already
doing this some in Koine Greek on the online forums ΣΧΟΛΗ and Textkit,
and in Latin on Schola and Textkit. I would enjoy attempting this in
BH, as well. If any list member knows of an existing online forum
similar to the above that supports BH compositions, please send me a
link offlist. (Initial searches have not found any.) I don't know if
Twitter supports this, but if so, I do have a Twitter account (tho I'm
not real active).

I would love to do it by email, but I'm doubtful it would work. The
B-Hebrew list messages that contain Hebrew script never display
correctly when I read them; they just show as question marks, so I
always have to open a new tab and view the message in the archives to
see the Hebrew script.

If anyone is interested in trying this with me —especially anyone who
is already good at it and who is willing to be patient with my
mistakes—I would love to hear from you!

YEVAREKEKA YHWH VEYISHEMEREKA יברכך יהוה וישמרך׃

Dewayne Dulaney דוין דולני
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Pere Porta | 1 Mar 07:16 2011
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Re: Qames hatuph - syllable and sheva

Sébastien,

As an answer to your question:

1. In a general way, whenever the qamats qatan represents the sound 'o'
--which is usually represented by a holam in the basic word-  then the
syllable is read as with vowel 'o'.

There are plenty of examples: find them in Gn 31:42 (1), my poverty; Lv 20:3
(2), my holiness; Pr 5:13 (3), my ear; 1Ch 27:1 (4), the months of the
year.....
The first three have suffix -y (= my); the last is a plural construct.

Similarly we could get a list with suffix -kha (your, of male). If it is of
your interest, ask me for it, please.

(1) For the basic look at Ps 88:10
(2) For the basic look at Ex 3:5
(3) For the basic look at 2Sa 22:45
(4) For the basic look at Nm 9:22

2. But sometimes the qamats (remark: NOT qamats hatuph!) represents the
qamats (and NOT the holam) of the basic. Then the reading 'a' is preserved:
look at Neh 12:22 (5), the Persian (male). Also the noun you provided in
your fist post (*your heart*) fits here.

(5) For the basic look at Dn 11:2

3. There are some especial cases   -some exceptions, if you prefer to call
them so-   not fitting the precedent but..... maybe it is not time for you
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Pere Porta | 1 Mar 07:26 2011
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Re: qamac

Nir,

I think it is hard to make such a cutting line between the two groups.

When you say "...remember that verbs in past and future..." do you mean all
verbs?  Are you speaking of the Qal, the Hiph'il... conjugations? Do you
refer to the whole set of the 10 Hebrew verb persons or only to some?

Unless you are more explicit, I'm unable to give an answer.

Regards

Pere Porta

2011/2/28 Nir cohen - Prof. Mat. <nir@...>

> sebastien, pere,
>
> sebastien's example includes one noun and one verb in the past tense.
>
> i vaguely remember that verbs in past and future follow one
> set of nikud rules plus syllable stress, and all the rest
> (including verbs in present and nouns) follows a second set.
>
> pere, could this explain the difference?
>
> nir cohen
>
> ----------
>
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K Randolph | 1 Mar 07:09 2011
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Re: sorry

Isaac:

On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Isaac Fried <if@...> wrote:

> 1. You are confusing the Hebrew etymology of the original with the English
> etymology of its purported translation.
>

Who said anything about the etymology of the English meanings?

The Hebrew meaning of one word, as translated, is to pervert, and the Hebrew
meaning of another is to be stout, yet you claim they are related. So what
is the relationship? How do you get from one meaning to the other?

> 2. "Modern" Hebrew and "biblical" Hebrew are one and the same language.
>

Shall we start with showing differences in grammar that show they are two
different but related languages? Then add many words that have different
meanings?

> Isaac Fried, Boston University
>
> It is commonly recognized in linguistics that similarity in sound, or even
at times the same sound, usually does not reflect similarity in meaning. In
order to show etymology, one must show how the meanings are related as well.
Hence my questions above.

Karl W. Randolph.
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Dewayne Dulaney | 1 Mar 09:14 2011
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Re: Practice in Biblical Hebrew Composition and Communication

Twitter does do Hebrew, so if you want to try this with me (BH for
now, not modern) there, my username is ddulaney.

Dewayne Dulaney

--

-- 
"In the world you will have trouble. But, be brave! I have defeated the world!"
—John 16:33, DDV (Dewayne Dulaney Version)

My Bible blogs: http://my.opera.com/Loquor/blog/ and
http://hasopher.preachersfiles.com/
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Kirk Lowery | 1 Mar 12:52 2011

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Isaac Fried | 1 Mar 13:25 2011

Re: sorry

1. Meaning is not a point-wise, but rather an an extensive quality  
and therefore comparison of meanings needs to be done in the original  
Hebrew, not on its purported translation.
2. It is my firm opinion that "modern" Hebrew and "biblical" Hebrew  
are one and the same language. As long as we don't have a norm for  
"sameness" this discussion will be of no avail and of no end. Isn't  
English of the last decade the "same" language as of this decade even  
though it gained meanwhile some thousand new words? Or are they only  
"related"?

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Mar 1, 2011, at 1:09 AM, K Randolph wrote:

> Isaac:
>
> On Sun, Feb 27, 2011 at 8:51 AM, Isaac Fried <if@...> wrote:
> 1. You are confusing the Hebrew etymology of the original with the  
> English etymology of its purported translation.
>
> Who said anything about the etymology of the English meanings?
>
> The Hebrew meaning of one word, as translated, is to pervert, and  
> the Hebrew meaning of another is to be stout, yet you claim they  
> are related. So what is the relationship? How do you get from one  
> meaning to the other?
>
> 2. "Modern" Hebrew and "biblical" Hebrew are one and the same  
> language.
>
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Nir cohen - Prof. Mat. | 1 Mar 17:46 2011
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Re: Hobah

jim,

i found your account of the name xwbh very interesting. but i also suspect
that wbh would hardly be used to denote U in semitic. 

meanwhile, near damaskus, a bit to the south-west, i localized a small 
town called der khabeyah. 

nir cohen

>>> De: JimStinehart@...
Assunto: Re: [b-hebrew] Hobah
Data: Thu, 24 Feb 2011 12:02:58 EST
Para: b-hebrew@...

>>> The Early and Middle Bronze Age name for the Damascus area was the Akkadian
word Apu or Apum,...
Isaac Fried | 1 Mar 18:15 2011

Re: sorry

1. It is not clear to me how you are "looking at the meanings in  
Biblical Hebrew".
2. I have never heard about "indicator of etymology".
3. It is not clear to me what "phases" are.
4. "not the same" is dependent on the norm for sameness.
5. Hebrew is not English.

Isaac Fried, Boston University

On Mar 1, 2011, at 11:30 AM, K Randolph wrote:

> Isaac:
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 4:25 AM, Isaac Fried <if@...> wrote:
> 1. Meaning is not a point-wise, but rather an an extensive quality  
> and therefore comparison of meanings needs to be done in the  
> original Hebrew, not on its purported translation.
>
> You are avoiding the issue. I am looking at the meanings in  
> Biblical Hebrew, and finding no connection at all, therefore no  
> indication of common etymology. For good, linguistic reasons,  
> similarity in form alone is not recognized as an indicator of  
> etymology. It is on that basis that your claim is invalid.
>
> 2. It is my firm opinion that "modern" Hebrew and "biblical" Hebrew  
> are one and the same language. As long as we don't have a norm for  
> "sameness" this discussion will be of no avail and of no end.
>
> There are norms for sameness, and those norms, at least from  
> discussions on this list, indicate that there are three, if not  
(Continue reading)

JimStinehart | 1 Mar 20:17 2011
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Re: Hobah


Nir Cohen:

You wrote:  “i found your account of the name xwbh very interesting. but i 
also suspect that wbh would hardly be used to denote U in semitic.  
meanwhile, near damaskus, a bit to the south-west, i localized a small town called 
der khabeyah.

1.  Is “Der Khabeyah” a modern name?  [Is it modern German???]  If it’s a 
modern language, it has little relevance to understanding XWBH at Genesis 
14: 15.  For example, “Ham” is a modern name, that starts with he/H.  But 
there is no such city name in greater ancient Canaan that starts with he/H.  I 
see HM at Genesis 14: 5 as meaning “these”, rather than being a proper 
name.  Do you have an ancient cite for “Der Khabeyah”?  Perhaps it’s a German 
rendering of a modern Arabic town name??

2.  Of critical importance to the analysis here is your statement that “i 
also suspect that wbh would hardly be used to denote U in semitic”.  I 
completely agree that 1st millennium BCE scribes could not imagine a word in the 
Bible beginning with a vav/W, where that vav/W represented a vowel that was 
its own separate syllable.  Though such a construction is commonplace in 
Hurrian, it’s impossible in Hebrew.

But consider now how an early Hebrew would have recorded the Hurrian name 
Ubi.  The east Semitic name for the Damascus region was Api, and the west 
Semitic version would have aleph/) for that initial A.  But in the Late Bronze 
Age, the Canaanite Shift made the pronunciation Opi.  We know from Amarna 
Letter EA 197 that Hurrian princelings ruled the Damascus area in the 14th 
century BCE.  To a Hurrian, Opi sounded a lot like the Hurrian word U-bi, 
meaning “barley”, and the Damascus area was a good barley growing area.  So the 
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Gmane