aletheia kallos | 3 Jan 00:46 2005
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pensacola fl Re: abilene tx Re: still haskell & possibly last posts of 2004 bee pee Re: arcapora is ours

interesting
& those 30 foot road allowances were at first pure speculation
or perhaps just intuition
by me
 
 
&
many states away from there now 
i just had a look at whats left of the florabama bar
yikes
still partly standing but completely gutted
 
so i just dont know yet whether another interstate mullet toss will ever rise again in that particular former neighborhood
 
 
but in any case i am exceedingly pleased to finally be able to report that the 2005 bp inaugural tour went off swimmingly well
even tho nothing at all was found on this years route explicitly saying bp
 
& since i arrived in goldthwaite half a day too early
& couldnt wait to see what the route looked like
the tour actually progressed not only from goldthwaite to hamilton but then back to goldthwaite
for a dry round trip in daylight on friday 
& then finally back to hamilton again for the actual real time augury beginning at the stroke of midnight new years morning
 
& of course it is never easy to know what to report & interpret
& what to ignore as being insignificant
but the following were to me among the most salient details
 
 
the dry run revealed some 34 miles of perhaps the loveliest bucolic idyllic texas hill country i have ever seen
 
so clearly we are in for lots of beauty again here this year
 
& the many kinds & great numbers of livestock did identify the road as a proper farm road
unlike the 2004 farm road you may recall that ran thru shopping malls & oil refineries
but none of these animals actually figured in the sights & sounds i saw in the course of the new years run
 
i did notice that the first word written on the route 2005 roadstead
practically as soon as you turn in from highway 84
is
fellowship
suggesting perhaps some added social emphasis for bp in 2005 
 
& the first illustrated sign says truett & verba lee auldridge
i kid you not
truett & verba lee
& it pictures a roadrunner & a rattlesnake
 
what to make of that
 
 
also during the dry run phase i noticed many other names on the land not previously mentioned in my little preview last week
kranz & mccasland being the biggest looking ranchers & biggest writing
but most impressive was the name i found on an adopt a highway sign
indicating hagelstein red brangus had the next 2 miles of roadside trash covered no problem
 
& when i saw a statuesque redhead bagging garbage on the shoulder just ahead of the sign
i figured she must be red brangus herself getting her part of highway 2005 ready for new years
 
well i was so excited
& i figured hagelstein had to be the name of her cows
but i have since learned that it is the cows who are the red brangus
& so she was probably only eldora hagelstein their owner
but it made for a nice personal touch while the illusion lasted
& her name still may be conducive of some import or meaning i have yet to divine
since she was the only person i saw beside myself whom i imagine i can name
& who may have been conscious of the connection between the road number & the new year
 
since eldora hagelstein evidently means golden & hail & mug
it could be a sign of drinking to golden good health
 
 
but anyway the real inaugural tour itself began from route 84 at midnight in balmy breezes to sounds of general fireworks behind me in goldthwaite as i drove straight off toward the moon hanging over a landscape already well previewed
 
so i figured the prominence of the moon meant the year 2005 will be an especially loony one
 
but i was looking especially now for anything that moved
 
just stillness & emptiness for the longest time
 
couldnt believe how nothing at all was apparently happening
& the tour was aproaching a quarter of the way to completion
yikes
& indeed after some 8 & a quarter miles
at 1212am
i finally noticed something
 
a few moths in the headlights
indeed the first things beside myself that i found moving thru the otherwise complete stillness
 
did these moths mean we at bp would be eating still more holes in the fabric of reality in 2005
 
i cant very well report that
i thought
just as a white rabbit raced across the road in front of me from right to left
 
good
so ignore the moths if you like
 
the first animal was a rabbit
 
& a right to left white rabbit clearly means right good luck
 
& as if to underscore the point
a second white rabbit at 13 & a third miles 
& 1221am
a baby
broke left to right
but turned back right to left in a crazy arc before disappearing again where he began
 
 
the only other animals observed were deer
amazingly 11 all together in 6 groups including several fawns
all concentrated into the first 19 miles
 
then except for cars no more living things
 
of course so many wild & young things suggest a very fortunate & prolific period
 
& they were replaced for the last 15 miles by a searchlight panning the skies around hamilton 
suggesting our bonanza would comprise still more search & enjoyment
 
the other cars i saw numbered 8 in all
but most of them were met or just seen at a distance
& only one overtook me after coming in from a fork
 
at the end of 2005 in hamilton was a standing chimney without a house
 
so i was definitely the first person to travel this entire farm road 2005 in 2005 eastbound
tho it is possible 1 or 2 of the westbound cars i saw may have beat me to completing it
tho not likely
 
anyway this is just a quick synopsis
 
maybe you will see something else i missed
 
oops booted
must run now
beeps
 


"Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496-uAjRD0nVeow@public.gmane.org> wrote:
My semi doubts about CRFLHALU were based on your non-mention of the now-overgrown diagonal road that shows so prominently on the topo and somewhat on the aerial.  Obviously, much has changed since 1991 and 1995, respectively.
 
I haven't researched the law on this, but I understand that it's a modern Texas legal requirement for road strips as you have described.  When large tracts having public-road frontage are partitioned into smaller tracts, each smaller tract must include actual owned road frontage (rather than mere right-of-way easements).  This is often accomplished by 30-foot-wide road strips.  My land in Maverick County on the Mexican border fronts onto FM 1907.  Between me and my eastern neighbor, there is a 30-foot road strip that is part of the tract behind the eastern neighbor.  Between me and my western neighbor, there are TWO 30-foot road strips that belong to the respective tracts behind me and behind my western neighbor.
 
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 7:59 PM
Subject: abilene tx Re: still haskell & possibly last posts of 2004 bee pee Re: [BoundaryPoint] arcapora is ours

ok i do hear you but i spoke with aerial pix very much in view in that case
so i dont actually see what you mean here
 
the road shown arriving from the south on the topo is overgrown now & only the barbed wire avenue remains in the quadripoint vicinity
thru which one can still maneuver a vehicle
but arriving from the east only as i did 
on a cotton bale road not shown on the topo
while the eastwest avenue is represented by barbed wire in diagonally opposite counties only
hence no actual avenue is visible but it can be inferred from the barbed wire that is there
 
so thats the 10yard square
if you follow
within which or at the edge of which i agree the topo shows a quadripoint rock
 
but you know seeing is better than believing
& seeing it on a map is only believing you are seeing
 
& yes of course i do wish i had gone with topo in hand now that i see the delicacy of the situation
hahahahaha
but thats not how she wrote it
 
 
still better yet however & as if to underscore the above point
i have completed my try for bahaknth in the interim
& thus can report the lone star tour is complete
with only 2 out of the 5 presumed rocks actually recovered
 
& btw i would call these 5 visits class ababc respectively if feeling generous
& at least aeaed in any case 
since the jury is still out in several cases
if you will pardon my legal conceit 
 
but anyway the point is that tho i sought bahaknth with both a usgs topo & the roads of texas map in hand
& with both of them showing a quadripoint rock
i could see no monument whatsoever in broad daylight at 750 foot range
so call it only a damn good class d
gazing thru 6strand barbed wire i couldnt crawl under
to the target point in overgrazed irrigated range from which not a blade of grass rose more than 2 inches above the well trampled plain
 
so i can swear bahaknth is unmonumented
let alone by anything of texan stature 
tho i grant it may still be marked by a humble disk in a cowflop of cement that i couldnt see
 
& about farm machinery & monuments
i did find crgaluly interrupting a huge irrigation rotation cycle
so these ranchers definitely do know how to make their equipment dodge the monuments &or markers if they put their mind to it
 
& now i believe it is already practically auld lang time for me since this library is closing soon
 
this excellent library where i imagine now i may have posted a similar pre new year message last year too
or is it only deja vu
 
& who knows if i will find any internet possibility tomorrow on the way to goldthwaite
etc etc
 
so yikes & beeps & thanx all
 
 

"Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496-uAjRD0nVeow@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Mike,
 
I do feel like I'm there with you, and I'm enjoying the trip.
 
Having seen the aerial of  CRFLHALU, I'm not entirely sure from your description that you actually found it.  When you see the aerial, perhaps you'll see what I mean.  Things could have changed in the nine years since the aerial, so I could be wrong.
 
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:40 PM
Subject: still haskell & possibly last posts of 2004 bee pee Re: [BoundaryPoint] arcapora is ours

thanx again & again
 
you are with me here you know
 
well you all are actually
 
 
& so next i blasted off again from the plainview library as i think it was then
toward crflhalu aka star tour point 2
with starry eyed expectations of finding that needle in haystack triangulation station
or whatever it was supposed to be
or at least giving it a mighty careful halloo
 
& with careful interplay again between outer odometer & inner pedometer
advancing both eastward & then southward too from petersburg
which was my only reference point btw on an otherwise blank grid in the puzzle i was solving
amazingly i was able to find the undoubtedly correct 30foot square
set off by paired barbed wire intervals suggesting unused road allowances
& was then able to estimate the most central square yard in turn within this 10yard square
for a very credible & creditable class b visit as i thought then
to the position of an otherwise naked or unfindable reference point
 
an extremely careful halloo i thought
within this actual but to me still invisible overview
 
& mind you
this was all done without benefit of anything more than my national road atlas actually
 
very gratifying it was
 
 
but i was still feeling unsure enough about the truth of this visit to want to check into the nearest library & internet
at lubbock actually
for some confirmation
& maybe to get some more maps in case i really did need them
& report in to bp etc
 
but the lubbock gollirama theme park was even more astoundingly follirama than its amarillo counterpark
so i could do none of the above except check my crflhalu try in the roads of texas atlas you had begun from
with some continuing rejoicing at what i saw there at least
 
& i did take the opportunity also to xerox the roads of texas cuts for the remaining 3 points on the tour
namely crgaluly & codikimo & bahaknth
which i then proceeded toward in that sequence
rather than be inspired to return to crflhalu for a retry based on anything i had seen at that time
 
tho i might have felt differently if i had known of your new addition & knew it to be correct too
 
which i still cant be any more sure of on the aerial pic than i can for bodahoma btw
or yikes even than for arcapora & crgaluly
both of which i have seen on the ground but still cant from the air
 
for yes
this report is also a confirmation that crgaluly too is ours my friends since yesterday as well
 
a battered 5foot reinforced concrete pyramoid much in the style of arcapora but with its upper edges fluted & its top disk showing cardinal abbrevs separating all 4 county names
looking hand stamped rather than engraved
& including a similar central void
in which the 4corner point can only be inferred but not actually seen in diagram
 
date guess 1934
 
 
& by then things had gotten really interesting for me
2 visits class a
plus
a valiant class b
 
so thats looking perfect or better on 3 for 3
 
& feeling just that good i blasted off again directly for codikimo
by back roads hopefully all public
across yellow house canyon 
aka the double mountain fork of the brazos river
 
but no
i was soon entering private property posted no entry except on business etc etc
yet private property so desolate i decided to play dumb & tresspass anyway
& was doing pretty good til i hit the stream ford
which was looking pretty hairy
 
& i stopped & got out & looked & looked & tested & tested & thought & thought
& finally dared to blast across it 
fishtailing thru the deep mud all the way & even getting the interior floor wet & almost drowning the engine but still barreling & coughing thru & up to dry land again
 
it was the narrowest close call & escape i can recall ever having from anything
 
& yikes getting stuck would surely have meant getting caught too
hahahahaha
i howled in satisfaction even as the engine was still misfiring hideously
 
& of course it recovered in a few hundred more yards as it burned the water off
 
 
all which however didnt at all dampen my enthusiasm for the chase
which reached the codikimo vicinity shortly after midnight under a nearly full moon
at what was certainly the high point of the entire tour thus far
so let me just post this much so you can stay abreast 
while i continue cobbling together what happened next
 

"Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496-uAjRD0nVeow@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Congratulations on your success!  I was glad to be of help.
 
Your next two "triangulation station" quadripoints are shown by USGS as nicely monumented, so maybe they won't be too hard to spot.
 
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 1:47 PM
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] arcapora is ours

that armstrong carson potter randall quadricounty point virgin beauty 
& prima donna megapoint of the texas tertiary 
was successfully visited earlier today class a
thanx substantially to our strong silent & uncannily trusty local informant tex mcmanus
 
heralded by & visible from the capo county line signs on federal highway 287
it is monumented by a somewhat battered & misshapen 3foot reinforced concrete pyramoid with a footsquare horizontal top in lieu of cap
 
the overall form is much like a bradstreet 1924 model as recently described for az3mayu
but with a copper disk embedded in its top
 
on the disk are engraved the names of the 4 counties in positions suggesting the 4 quadrants
but the precise 4corner point location in their midst is not actually marked
& has to be inferred geometrically
which can be done with confidence actually only down to about the correct square semicentimeter
 
but an index finger tip covers & fudges all that just fine
 
date guess 1927
 
the usual barbed wire crawl 
plus an open ballpark or so to run in view of a ranch house
 
& remember we are in texas now
so even any slight tresspass is likely to be taken very seriously indeed
of course heightening the fun of the chase
 
& the cold turkey approach was so satisfying that i have decided to try to complete the entire 5pointed star tour cold turkey if possible before resorting to any further mappery
 
this may border on the footloose & fancy free however
since the next 2 points i will be trying at least 
namely crflhalu & crgaluly
are indicated not as monumented points necessarily but only as triangulation stations
so they could be something else than arcapora entirely & harder to spot
 
but we shall see

Do you Yahoo!?
Meet the all-new My Yahoo!
Doug Murray | 3 Jan 19:10 2005

Border splits smokers in divided town (Canada)


Just wrote this story for CBC.ca (the internet arm of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation):

LLOYDMINSTER (Alberta/Saskatchewan) ? Some business owners on the Saskatchewan side of the border in
Lloydminster are worried that the province's new smoking ban could drive business across town to Alberta.

The smoking ban came into effect on Saturday. It prohibits smoking in all enclosed public places,
including restaurants, bingo halls and casinos.

But in Lloydminster, the ban only applies on the Saskatchewan half of the city.

The business owners say the same rules should apply throughout the community.

Meanwhile, the premier says that most businesses are complying with the ban.

But Lorne Calvert says it may take a while for some restaurant and bar owners to adjust to the new smoking law

The province has given businesses 60 days to comply with the ban.

-30-

Happy Border Crossings!

Doug

Doug Murray Productions/Border Films
sounds+images+words
Vancouver, BC Canada
+1.604.728.1407

http://www.cafepress.com/borderfilms

 
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interesting
& those 30 foot road allowances were at first pure speculation
or perhaps just intuition
by me
 
 
&
many states away from there now 
i just had a look at whats left of the florabama bar
yikes
still partly standing but completely gutted
 
so i just dont know yet whether another interstate mullet toss will ever rise again in that particular former neighborhood
 
 
but in any case i am exceedingly pleased to finally be able to report that the 2005 bp inaugural tour went off swimmingly well
even tho nothing at all was found on this years route explicitly saying bp
 
& since i arrived in goldthwaite half a day too early
& couldnt wait to see what the route looked like
the tour actually progressed not only from goldthwaite to hamilton but then back to goldthwaite
for a dry round trip in daylight on friday 
& then finally back to hamilton again for the actual real time augury beginning at the stroke of midnight new years morning
 
& of course it is never easy to know what to report & interpret
& what to ignore as being insignificant
but the following were to me among the most salient details
 
 
the dry run revealed some 34 miles of perhaps the loveliest bucolic idyllic texas hill country i have ever seen
 
so clearly we are in for lots of beauty again here this year
 
& the many kinds & great numbers of livestock did identify the road as a proper farm road
unlike the 2004 farm road you may recall that ran thru shopping malls & oil refineries
but none of these animals actually figured in the sights & sounds i saw in the course of the new years run
 
i did notice that the first word written on the route 2005 roadstead
practically as soon as you turn in from highway 84
is
fellowship
suggesting perhaps some added social emphasis for bp in 2005 
 
& the first illustrated sign says truett & verba lee auldridge
i kid you not
truett & verba lee
& it pictures a roadrunner & a rattlesnake
 
what to make of that
 
 
also during the dry run phase i noticed many other names on the land not previously mentioned in my little preview last week
kranz & mccasland being the biggest looking ranchers & biggest writing
but most impressive was the name i found on an adopt a highway sign
indicating hagelstein red brangus had the next 2 miles of roadside trash covered no problem
 
& when i saw a statuesque redhead bagging garbage on the shoulder just ahead of the sign
i figured she must be red brangus herself getting her part of highway 2005 ready for new years
 
well i was so excited
& i figured hagelstein had to be the name of her cows
but i have since learned that it is the cows who are the red brangus
& so she was probably only eldora hagelstein their owner
but it made for a nice personal touch while the illusion lasted
& her name still may be conducive of some import or meaning i have yet to divine
since she was the only person i saw beside myself whom i imagine i can name
& who may have been conscious of the connection between the road number & the new year
 
since eldora hagelstein evidently means golden & hail & mug
it could be a sign of drinking to golden good health
 
 
but anyway the real inaugural tour itself began from route 84 at midnight in balmy breezes to sounds of general fireworks behind me in goldthwaite as i drove straight off toward the moon hanging over a landscape already well previewed
 
so i figured the prominence of the moon meant the year 2005 will be an especially loony one
 
but i was looking especially now for anything that moved
 
just stillness & emptiness for the longest time
 
couldnt believe how nothing at all was apparently happening
& the tour was aproaching a quarter of the way to completion
yikes
& indeed after some 8 & a quarter miles
at 1212am
i finally noticed something
 
a few moths in the headlights
indeed the first things beside myself that i found moving thru the otherwise complete stillness
 
did these moths mean we at bp would be eating still more holes in the fabric of reality in 2005
 
i cant very well report that
i thought
just as a white rabbit raced across the road in front of me from right to left
 
good
so ignore the moths if you like
 
the first animal was a rabbit
 
& a right to left white rabbit clearly means right good luck
 
& as if to underscore the point
a second white rabbit at 13 & a third miles 
& 1221am
a baby
broke left to right
but turned back right to left in a crazy arc before disappearing again where he began
 
 
the only other animals observed were deer
amazingly 11 all together in 6 groups including several fawns
all concentrated into the first 19 miles
 
then except for cars no more living things
 
of course so many wild & young things suggest a very fortunate & prolific period
 
& they were replaced for the last 15 miles by a searchlight panning the skies around hamilton 
suggesting our bonanza would comprise still more search & enjoyment
 
the other cars i saw numbered 8 in all
but most of them were met or just seen at a distance
& only one overtook me after coming in from a fork
 
at the end of 2005 in hamilton was a standing chimney without a house
 
so i was definitely the first person to travel this entire farm road 2005 in 2005 eastbound
tho it is possible 1 or 2 of the westbound cars i saw may have beat me to completing it
tho not likely
 
anyway this is just a quick synopsis
 
maybe you will see something else i missed
 
oops booted
must run now
beeps
 


"Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496-uAjRD0nVeow@public.gmane.org> wrote:
My semi doubts about CRFLHALU were based on your non-mention of the now-overgrown diagonal road that shows so prominently on the topo and somewhat on the aerial.  Obviously, much has changed since 1991 and 1995, respectively.
 
I haven't researched the law on this, but I understand that it's a modern Texas legal requirement for road strips as you have described.  When large tracts having public-road frontage are partitioned into smaller tracts, each smaller tract must include actual owned road frontage (rather than mere right-of-way easements).  This is often accomplished by 30-foot-wide road strips.  My land in Maverick County on the Mexican border fronts onto FM 1907.  Between me and my eastern neighbor, there is a 30-foot road strip that is part of the tract behind the eastern neighbor.  Between me and my western neighbor, there are TWO 30-foot road strips that belong to the respective tracts behind me and behind my western neighbor.
 
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 7:59 PM
Subject: abilene tx Re: still haskell & possibly last posts of 2004 bee pee Re: [BoundaryPoint] arcapora is ours

ok i do hear you but i spoke with aerial pix very much in view in that case
so i dont actually see what you mean here
 
the road shown arriving from the south on the topo is overgrown now & only the barbed wire avenue remains in the quadripoint vicinity
thru which one can still maneuver a vehicle
but arriving from the east only as i did 
on a cotton bale road not shown on the topo
while the eastwest avenue is represented by barbed wire in diagonally opposite counties only
hence no actual avenue is visible but it can be inferred from the barbed wire that is there
 
so thats the 10yard square
if you follow
within which or at the edge of which i agree the topo shows a quadripoint rock
 
but you know seeing is better than believing
& seeing it on a map is only believing you are seeing
 
& yes of course i do wish i had gone with topo in hand now that i see the delicacy of the situation
hahahahaha
but thats not how she wrote it
 
 
still better yet however & as if to underscore the above point
i have completed my try for bahaknth in the interim
& thus can report the lone star tour is complete
with only 2 out of the 5 presumed rocks actually recovered
 
& btw i would call these 5 visits class ababc respectively if feeling generous
& at least aeaed in any case 
since the jury is still out in several cases
if you will pardon my legal conceit 
 
but anyway the point is that tho i sought bahaknth with both a usgs topo & the roads of texas map in hand
& with both of them showing a quadripoint rock
i could see no monument whatsoever in broad daylight at 750 foot range
so call it only a damn good class d
gazing thru 6strand barbed wire i couldnt crawl under
to the target point in overgrazed irrigated range from which not a blade of grass rose more than 2 inches above the well trampled plain
 
so i can swear bahaknth is unmonumented
let alone by anything of texan stature 
tho i grant it may still be marked by a humble disk in a cowflop of cement that i couldnt see
 
& about farm machinery & monuments
i did find crgaluly interrupting a huge irrigation rotation cycle
so these ranchers definitely do know how to make their equipment dodge the monuments &or markers if they put their mind to it
 
& now i believe it is already practically auld lang time for me since this library is closing soon
 
this excellent library where i imagine now i may have posted a similar pre new year message last year too
or is it only deja vu
 
& who knows if i will find any internet possibility tomorrow on the way to goldthwaite
etc etc
 
so yikes & beeps & thanx all
 
 

"Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496-uAjRD0nVeow@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Mike,
 
I do feel like I'm there with you, and I'm enjoying the trip.
 
Having seen the aerial of  CRFLHALU, I'm not entirely sure from your description that you actually found it.  When you see the aerial, perhaps you'll see what I mean.  Things could have changed in the nine years since the aerial, so I could be wrong.
 
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:40 PM
Subject: still haskell & possibly last posts of 2004 bee pee Re: [BoundaryPoint] arcapora is ours

thanx again & again
 
you are with me here you know
 
well you all are actually
 
 
& so next i blasted off again from the plainview library as i think it was then
toward crflhalu aka star tour point 2
with starry eyed expectations of finding that needle in haystack triangulation station
or whatever it was supposed to be
or at least giving it a mighty careful halloo
 
& with careful interplay again between outer odometer & inner pedometer
advancing both eastward & then southward too from petersburg
which was my only reference point btw on an otherwise blank grid in the puzzle i was solving
amazingly i was able to find the undoubtedly correct 30foot square
set off by paired barbed wire intervals suggesting unused road allowances
& was then able to estimate the most central square yard in turn within this 10yard square
for a very credible & creditable class b visit as i thought then
to the position of an otherwise naked or unfindable reference point
 
an extremely careful halloo i thought
within this actual but to me still invisible overview
 
& mind you
this was all done without benefit of anything more than my national road atlas actually
 
very gratifying it was
 
 
but i was still feeling unsure enough about the truth of this visit to want to check into the nearest library & internet
at lubbock actually
for some confirmation
& maybe to get some more maps in case i really did need them
& report in to bp etc
 
but the lubbock gollirama theme park was even more astoundingly follirama than its amarillo counterpark
so i could do none of the above except check my crflhalu try in the roads of texas atlas you had begun from
with some continuing rejoicing at what i saw there at least
 
& i did take the opportunity also to xerox the roads of texas cuts for the remaining 3 points on the tour
namely crgaluly & codikimo & bahaknth
which i then proceeded toward in that sequence
rather than be inspired to return to crflhalu for a retry based on anything i had seen at that time
 
tho i might have felt differently if i had known of your new addition & knew it to be correct too
 
which i still cant be any more sure of on the aerial pic than i can for bodahoma btw
or yikes even than for arcapora & crgaluly
both of which i have seen on the ground but still cant from the air
 
for yes
this report is also a confirmation that crgaluly too is ours my friends since yesterday as well
 
a battered 5foot reinforced concrete pyramoid much in the style of arcapora but with its upper edges fluted & its top disk showing cardinal abbrevs separating all 4 county names
looking hand stamped rather than engraved
& including a similar central void
in which the 4corner point can only be inferred but not actually seen in diagram
 
date guess 1934
 
 
& by then things had gotten really interesting for me
2 visits class a
plus
a valiant class b
 
so thats looking perfect or better on 3 for 3
 
& feeling just that good i blasted off again directly for codikimo
by back roads hopefully all public
across yellow house canyon 
aka the double mountain fork of the brazos river
 
but no
i was soon entering private property posted no entry except on business etc etc
yet private property so desolate i decided to play dumb & tresspass anyway
& was doing pretty good til i hit the stream ford
which was looking pretty hairy
 
& i stopped & got out & looked & looked & tested & tested & thought & thought
& finally dared to blast across it 
fishtailing thru the deep mud all the way & even getting the interior floor wet & almost drowning the engine but still barreling & coughing thru & up to dry land again
 
it was the narrowest close call & escape i can recall ever having from anything
 
& yikes getting stuck would surely have meant getting caught too
hahahahaha
i howled in satisfaction even as the engine was still misfiring hideously
 
& of course it recovered in a few hundred more yards as it burned the water off
 
 
all which however didnt at all dampen my enthusiasm for the chase
which reached the codikimo vicinity shortly after midnight under a nearly full moon
at what was certainly the high point of the entire tour thus far
so let me just post this much so you can stay abreast 
while i continue cobbling together what happened next
 

"Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496-uAjRD0nVeow@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Congratulations on your success!  I was glad to be of help.
 
Your next two "triangulation station" quadripoints are shown by USGS as nicely monumented, so maybe they won't be too hard to spot.
 
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 1:47 PM
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] arcapora is ours

that armstrong carson potter randall quadricounty point virgin beauty 
& prima donna megapoint of the texas tertiary 
was successfully visited earlier today class a
thanx substantially to our strong silent & uncannily trusty local informant tex mcmanus
 
heralded by & visible from the capo county line signs on federal highway 287
it is monumented by a somewhat battered & misshapen 3foot reinforced concrete pyramoid with a footsquare horizontal top in lieu of cap
 
the overall form is much like a bradstreet 1924 model as recently described for az3mayu
but with a copper disk embedded in its top
 
on the disk are engraved the names of the 4 counties in positions suggesting the 4 quadrants
but the precise 4corner point location in their midst is not actually marked
& has to be inferred geometrically
which can be done with confidence actually only down to about the correct square semicentimeter
 
but an index finger tip covers & fudges all that just fine
 
date guess 1927
 
the usual barbed wire crawl 
plus an open ballpark or so to run in view of a ranch house
 
& remember we are in texas now
so even any slight tresspass is likely to be taken very seriously indeed
of course heightening the fun of the chase
 
& the cold turkey approach was so satisfying that i have decided to try to complete the entire 5pointed star tour cold turkey if possible before resorting to any further mappery
 
this may border on the footloose & fancy free however
since the next 2 points i will be trying at least 
namely crflhalu & crgaluly
are indicated not as monumented points necessarily but only as triangulation stations
so they could be something else than arcapora entirely & harder to spot
 
but we shall see

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aletheia kallos | 3 Jan 21:14 2005
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blountstown fl Re: Border splits smokers in divided town (Canada)

good gags for them
 
but do they care
w h a t
you smoke on the smoking side
 
they may need a separate british columbian enclave there in lloydminster too
 
so yikes that means possibly even a pair of abbcsk tripoints now 
 
i mean assuming the nonsmokers would even accept having a border with the tokers
hahahahahaha
 
well the medical tokers anyway right
hahaha 
 
but even so i recognize this is just a pipe dream
 
 
& i should also only add to my hurriedly filed report you were kind enough to enlarge upon here that the 2005 inaugural tour was indeed conducted with real smoke in the crystal ball & in fact still under an ample bc influence
 
 
& i also nearly forgot to mention
that the terminal junctions of farm road 2005 with highways 218 & 84 do tend to arouse a certain expectation & frankly even an eager anticipation on my part
at least for the following dates of 2005 
february 18th
or may 8th
& either the 4th or the 21st of august 
for i admit i dont know if the cosmos prefers the european or the american style of dating
 
possibly both of course
 
but do expect perhaps even hail if the gangs all stoned
 
i just dont know exactly when yet
 
 

Doug Murray <doug-zcZ1o1NJ7uam69XkqbI/HACym/hCvTLSAL8bYrjMMd8@public.gmane.org> wrote:

Just wrote this story for CBC.ca (the internet arm of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation):

LLOYDMINSTER (Alberta/Saskatchewan) ? Some business owners on the Saskatchewan side of the border in Lloydminster are worried that the province's new smoking ban could drive business across town to Alberta.

The smoking ban came into effect on Saturday. It prohibits smoking in all enclosed public places, including restaurants, bingo halls and casinos.

But in Lloydminster, the ban only applies on the Saskatchewan half of the city.

The business owners say the same rules should apply throughout the community.

Meanwhile, the premier says that most businesses are complying with the ban.

But Lorne Calvert says it may take a while for some restaurant and bar owners to adjust to the new smoking law

The province has given businesses 60 days to comply with the ban.

-30-

Happy Border Crossings!

Doug




Doug Murray Productions/Border Films
sounds+images+words
Vancouver, BC Canada
+1.604.728.1407

http://www.cafepress.com/borderfilms
interesting
& those 30 foot road allowances were at first pure speculation
or perhaps just intuition
by me
 
 
&
many states away from there now 
i just had a look at whats left of the florabama bar
yikes
still partly standing but completely gutted
 
so i just dont know yet whether another interstate mullet toss will ever rise again in that particular former neighborhood
 
 
but in any case i am exceedingly pleased to finally be able to report that the 2005 bp inaugural tour went off swimmingly well
even tho nothing at all was found on this years route explicitly saying bp
 
& since i arrived in goldthwaite half a day too early
& couldnt wait to see what the route looked like
the tour actually progressed not only from goldthwaite to hamilton but then back to goldthwaite
for a dry round trip in daylight on friday 
& then finally back to hamilton again for the actual real time augury beginning at the stroke of midnight new years morning
 
& of course it is never easy to know what to report & interpret
& what to ignore as being insignificant
but the following were to me among the most salient details
 
 
the dry run revealed some 34 miles of perhaps the loveliest bucolic idyllic texas hill country i have ever seen
 
so clearly we are in for lots of beauty again here this year
 
& the many kinds & great numbers of livestock did identify the road as a proper farm road
unlike the 2004 farm road you may recall that ran thru shopping malls & oil refineries
but none of these animals actually figured in the sights & sounds i saw in the course of the new years run
 
i did notice that the first word written on the route 2005 roadstead
practically as soon as you turn in from highway 84
is
fellowship
suggesting perhaps some added social emphasis for bp in 2005 
 
& the first illustrated sign says truett & verba lee auldridge
i kid you not
truett & verba lee
& it pictures a roadrunner & a rattlesnake
 
what to make of that
 
 
also during the dry run phase i noticed many other names on the land not previously mentioned in my little preview last week
kranz & mccasland being the biggest looking ranchers & biggest writing
but most impressive was the name i found on an adopt a highway sign
indicating hagelstein red brangus had the next 2 miles of roadside trash covered no problem
 
& when i saw a statuesque redhead bagging garbage on the shoulder just ahead of the sign
i figured she must be red brangus herself getting her part of highway 2005 ready for new years
 
well i was so excited
& i figured hagelstein had to be the name of her cows
but i have since learned that it is the cows who are the red brangus
& so she was probably only eldora hagelstein their owner
but it made for a nice personal touch while the illusion lasted
& her name still may be conducive of some import or meaning i have yet to divine
since she was the only person i saw beside myself whom i imagine i can name
& who may have been conscious of the connection between the road number & the new year
 
since eldora hagelstein evidently means golden & hail & mug
it could be a sign of drinking to golden good health
 
 
but anyway the real inaugural tour itself began from route 84 at midnight in balmy breezes to sounds of general fireworks behind me in goldthwaite as i drove straight off toward the moon hanging over a landscape already well previewed
 
so i figured the prominence of the moon meant the year 2005 will be an especially loony one
 
but i was looking especially now for anything that moved
 
just stillness & emptiness for the longest time
 
couldnt believe how nothing at all was apparently happening
& the tour was aproaching a quarter of the way to completion
yikes
& indeed after some 8 & a quarter miles
at 1212am
i finally noticed something
 
a few moths in the headlights
indeed the first things beside myself that i found moving thru the otherwise complete stillness
 
did these moths mean we at bp would be eating still more holes in the fabric of reality in 2005
 
i cant very well report that
i thought
just as a white rabbit raced across the road in front of me from right to left
 
good
so ignore the moths if you like
 
the first animal was a rabbit
 
& a right to left white rabbit clearly means right good luck
 
& as if to underscore the point
a second white rabbit at 13 & a third miles 
& 1221am
a baby
broke left to right
but turned back right to left in a crazy arc before disappearing again where he began
 
 
the only other animals observed were deer
amazingly 11 all together in 6 groups including several fawns
all concentrated into the first 19 miles
 
then except for cars no more living things
 
of course so many wild & young things suggest a very fortunate & prolific period
 
& they were replaced for the last 15 miles by a searchlight panning the skies around hamilton 
suggesting our bonanza would comprise still more search & enjoyment
 
the other cars i saw numbered 8 in all
but most of them were met or just seen at a distance
& only one overtook me after coming in from a fork
 
at the end of 2005 in hamilton was a standing chimney without a house
 
so i was definitely the first person to travel this entire farm road 2005 in 2005 eastbound
tho it is possible 1 or 2 of the westbound cars i saw may have beat me to completing it
tho not likely
 
anyway this is just a quick synopsis
 
maybe you will see something else i missed
 
oops booted
must run now
beeps
 


"Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496-uAjRD0nVeow@public.gmane.org> wrote:
My semi doubts about CRFLHALU were based on your non-mention of the now-overgrown diagonal road that shows so prominently on the topo and somewhat on the aerial.  Obviously, much has changed since 1991 and 1995, respectively.
 
I haven't researched the law on this, but I understand that it's a modern Texas legal requirement for road strips as you have described.  When large tracts having public-road frontage are partitioned into smaller tracts, each smaller tract must include actual owned road frontage (rather than mere right-of-way easements).  This is often accomplished by 30-foot-wide road strips.  My land in Maverick County on the Mexican border fronts onto FM 1907.  Between me and my eastern neighbor, there is a 30-foot road strip that is part of the tract behind the eastern neighbor.  Between me and my western neighbor, there are TWO 30-foot road strips that belong to the respective tracts behind me and behind my western neighbor.
 
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 7:59 PM
Subject: abilene tx Re: still haskell & possibly last posts of 2004 bee pee Re: [BoundaryPoint] arcapora is ours

ok i do hear you but i spoke with aerial pix very much in view in that case
so i dont actually see what you mean here
 
the road shown arriving from the south on the topo is overgrown now & only the barbed wire avenue remains in the quadripoint vicinity
thru which one can still maneuver a vehicle
but arriving from the east only as i did 
on a cotton bale road not shown on the topo
while the eastwest avenue is represented by barbed wire in diagonally opposite counties only
hence no actual avenue is visible but it can be inferred from the barbed wire that is there
 
so thats the 10yard square
if you follow
within which or at the edge of which i agree the topo shows a quadripoint rock
 
but you know seeing is better than believing
& seeing it on a map is only believing you are seeing
 
& yes of course i do wish i had gone with topo in hand now that i see the delicacy of the situation
hahahahaha
but thats not how she wrote it
 
 
still better yet however & as if to underscore the above point
i have completed my try for bahaknth in the interim
& thus can report the lone star tour is complete
with only 2 out of the 5 presumed rocks actually recovered
 
& btw i would call these 5 visits class ababc respectively if feeling generous
& at least aeaed in any case 
since the jury is still out in several cases
if you will pardon my legal conceit 
 
but anyway the point is that tho i sought bahaknth with both a usgs topo & the roads of texas map in hand
& with both of them showing a quadripoint rock
i could see no monument whatsoever in broad daylight at 750 foot range
so call it only a damn good class d
gazing thru 6strand barbed wire i couldnt crawl under
to the target point in overgrazed irrigated range from which not a blade of grass rose more than 2 inches above the well trampled plain
 
so i can swear bahaknth is unmonumented
let alone by anything of texan stature 
tho i grant it may still be marked by a humble disk in a cowflop of cement that i couldnt see
 
& about farm machinery & monuments
i did find crgaluly interrupting a huge irrigation rotation cycle
so these ranchers definitely do know how to make their equipment dodge the monuments &or markers if they put their mind to it
 
& now i believe it is already practically auld lang time for me since this library is closing soon
 
this excellent library where i imagine now i may have posted a similar pre new year message last year too
or is it only deja vu
 
& who knows if i will find any internet possibility tomorrow on the way to goldthwaite
etc etc
 
so yikes & beeps & thanx all
 
 

"Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496-uAjRD0nVeow@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Mike,
 
I do feel like I'm there with you, and I'm enjoying the trip.
 
Having seen the aerial of  CRFLHALU, I'm not entirely sure from your description that you actually found it.  When you see the aerial, perhaps you'll see what I mean.  Things could have changed in the nine years since the aerial, so I could be wrong.
 
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2004 2:40 PM
Subject: still haskell & possibly last posts of 2004 bee pee Re: [BoundaryPoint] arcapora is ours

thanx again & again
 
you are with me here you know
 
well you all are actually
 
 
& so next i blasted off again from the plainview library as i think it was then
toward crflhalu aka star tour point 2
with starry eyed expectations of finding that needle in haystack triangulation station
or whatever it was supposed to be
or at least giving it a mighty careful halloo
 
& with careful interplay again between outer odometer & inner pedometer
advancing both eastward & then southward too from petersburg
which was my only reference point btw on an otherwise blank grid in the puzzle i was solving
amazingly i was able to find the undoubtedly correct 30foot square
set off by paired barbed wire intervals suggesting unused road allowances
& was then able to estimate the most central square yard in turn within this 10yard square
for a very credible & creditable class b visit as i thought then
to the position of an otherwise naked or unfindable reference point
 
an extremely careful halloo i thought
within this actual but to me still invisible overview
 
& mind you
this was all done without benefit of anything more than my national road atlas actually
 
very gratifying it was
 
 
but i was still feeling unsure enough about the truth of this visit to want to check into the nearest library & internet
at lubbock actually
for some confirmation
& maybe to get some more maps in case i really did need them
& report in to bp etc
 
but the lubbock gollirama theme park was even more astoundingly follirama than its amarillo counterpark
so i could do none of the above except check my crflhalu try in the roads of texas atlas you had begun from
with some continuing rejoicing at what i saw there at least
 
& i did take the opportunity also to xerox the roads of texas cuts for the remaining 3 points on the tour
namely crgaluly & codikimo & bahaknth
which i then proceeded toward in that sequence
rather than be inspired to return to crflhalu for a retry based on anything i had seen at that time
 
tho i might have felt differently if i had known of your new addition & knew it to be correct too
 
which i still cant be any more sure of on the aerial pic than i can for bodahoma btw
or yikes even than for arcapora & crgaluly
both of which i have seen on the ground but still cant from the air
 
for yes
this report is also a confirmation that crgaluly too is ours my friends since yesterday as well
 
a battered 5foot reinforced concrete pyramoid much in the style of arcapora but with its upper edges fluted & its top disk showing cardinal abbrevs separating all 4 county names
looking hand stamped rather than engraved
& including a similar central void
in which the 4corner point can only be inferred but not actually seen in diagram
 
date guess 1934
 
 
& by then things had gotten really interesting for me
2 visits class a
plus
a valiant class b
 
so thats looking perfect or better on 3 for 3
 
& feeling just that good i blasted off again directly for codikimo
by back roads hopefully all public
across yellow house canyon 
aka the double mountain fork of the brazos river
 
but no
i was soon entering private property posted no entry except on business etc etc
yet private property so desolate i decided to play dumb & tresspass anyway
& was doing pretty good til i hit the stream ford
which was looking pretty hairy
 
& i stopped & got out & looked & looked & tested & tested & thought & thought
& finally dared to blast across it 
fishtailing thru the deep mud all the way & even getting the interior floor wet & almost drowning the engine but still barreling & coughing thru & up to dry land again
 
it was the narrowest close call & escape i can recall ever having from anything
 
& yikes getting stuck would surely have meant getting caught too
hahahahaha
i howled in satisfaction even as the engine was still misfiring hideously
 
& of course it recovered in a few hundred more yards as it burned the water off
 
 
all which however didnt at all dampen my enthusiasm for the chase
which reached the codikimo vicinity shortly after midnight under a nearly full moon
at what was certainly the high point of the entire tour thus far
so let me just post this much so you can stay abreast 
while i continue cobbling together what happened next
 

"Lowell G. McManus" <mcmanus71496-uAjRD0nVeow@public.gmane.org> wrote:
Congratulations on your success!  I was glad to be of help.
 
Your next two "triangulation station" quadripoints are shown by USGS as nicely monumented, so maybe they won't be too hard to spot.
 
Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 1:47 PM
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] arcapora is ours

that armstrong carson potter randall quadricounty point virgin beauty 
& prima donna megapoint of the texas tertiary 
was successfully visited earlier today class a
thanx substantially to our strong silent & uncannily trusty local informant tex mcmanus
 
heralded by & visible from the capo county line signs on federal highway 287
it is monumented by a somewhat battered & misshapen 3foot reinforced concrete pyramoid with a footsquare horizontal top in lieu of cap
 
the overall form is much like a bradstreet 1924 model as recently described for az3mayu
but with a copper disk embedded in its top
 
on the disk are engraved the names of the 4 counties in positions suggesting the 4 quadrants
but the precise 4corner point location in their midst is not actually marked
& has to be inferred geometrically
which can be done with confidence actually only down to about the correct square semicentimeter
 
but an index finger tip covers & fudges all that just fine
 
date guess 1927
 
the usual barbed wire crawl 
plus an open ballpark or so to run in view of a ranch house
 
& remember we are in texas now
so even any slight tresspass is likely to be taken very seriously indeed
of course heightening the fun of the chase
 
& the cold turkey approach was so satisfying that i have decided to try to complete the entire 5pointed star tour cold turkey if possible before resorting to any further mappery
 
this may border on the footloose & fancy free however
since the next 2 points i will be trying at least 
namely crflhalu & crgaluly
are indicated not as monumented points necessarily but only as triangulation stations
so they could be something else than arcapora entirely & harder to spot
 
but we shall see

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bwhyte | 4 Jan 03:19 2005
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Picon

border crossings and rules of road


I have just returned to Thailand after 10 days in Laos.
Crossed into Vientiane by Friendship Bridge.
Traffic drives on the left (ie Thai rules) acoss the entire bridge, and the 2 lanes separate at the Laos end of
the bridge, then cross over each other at an X intersection with a traffic light, before the Laos lane
enters the Lao customs/immigration area (and for Thai-bound trafic, immediately after leaving the Laos
customs/immigration area, and before it gets onto the bridge).
Signs in English (and Thai/Lao) warn of the change in rules of the road at the approach to the X intersection.
Traffic is not heavy, so the lights were not in use.
Pedestraiasn are not allowed on the bridge. There is no footpath. One lan of traffic in each direction. In
addition, a Railway line runs in the middle of the bridge from the Thai side, but the tracks stop halfway
across. Laos has never committed the money to continuing them on its side.
There are therefore still no railays at all in Laos.

I also crossed at Chongmek, between Pakse (Laos) and Ubon Ratchathani (Thailand) in the south of Laos. Laos
and Thai traffic can cross here,but is light enough that after customs on each side, there is no official
signs (at least in English) saying which side to drive on. A 2-lane road crosses the boundary, but only the
left hand side (Laos) [ie right hand side for Thailand drivers] had the double-gate open. Thus driving
from Laos to Thailand (from the right hand side to left), you drive to the line on the right, through the gate
on the left and stay on the left.
Likewise for Thais entering Laos, you drive up to the line on the left, across the line on the right and stay on
the right.

French wine (and Chinese wine) is dirt cheap on the Lao side of this crossing, while Lao wine (which  I prefer)
was hard to find!

As with my crossing here last year, there seems to be no official border pillars. At least the pillars the
guards pointed out to us were just fence posts or highway distance markers.

The Lao/Cam/Thai tripoint is still off limits due to UXO as much as anything.

Thai maps of this area are off limits (supposedly so the hais don't offend Laos/Cambodia ith their
preferred location of the border), even the censored civilian-issue 1:50,000 series, and the 1:250,000
series. Yet Lao happily sells its 1:200,000 and 1:100,000 sheets...

I walked the Singpaore-Malaysia causeway, and there is no nice brass pin or line to show the exact boundary,
but the road seal changes at the point where the causeway widens and the 'welcome to malaysia' sign stands
(there is no similar welcoming sign in the opther direction: you are farewelled from Malaysia and enter
the unwelcoming Republic of Lee!. Yet 5 metres on into Malaysia is a small olympic medal dias sort of thing,
with a line painted on it, which presumably used o be where tourists could stand, on each side of the line for
photos. But it appeared old and un-used.
I will post photos later when back home.

ON the Malay-Thai crossing at Padang Besa by train, you get of the train, pass thrugh Malay customs at one end
o the station, then Thai at the other bfefore reboarding the trian, but this happens entirely within
Mlaysia. After reboarding the ain continues north and the entire ail yard is Malay and fenced off from
Thailand, and the train passes through a sliding gate into Thailand and north.

Brendan

 
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Richard Lam | 4 Jan 12:48 2005
Picon

Re: border crossings and rules of road

Brendan,
 
I am amazed that you missed the blue on white "Tow Away Zone" sign on the Singapore side of the causeway immediately after our border. It is the first Singapore traffic sign as you leave Malaysia. There is actaully a welcome sign on this side of the bridge if you know where to look. Near the flag pole at the immigration building, a sign from the traffic police sign says "Singapore welcomes safe drivers" or something to that effect.
 
I seem to remember a border counting rule which discounts borders on bridges or similar structures. I presume that with the causeway, one can't be too careful. There appears to be a willingness to let the border be "undefined" (I use the word loosely here) as far as the bridge is concern so as to avoid further disagreements.
 
On the Thai/Myanmar bridge at Mae Sai (Thai)/Tachilek (Myanmar) crossing, there is no signs warning of changes in traffic direction. you simply change lanes in the middle of the bridge - but watch for on coming traffic. A coalition between two vehicles from opposite direction nearly happened while I was there.
 
Richard
Singapore
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 10:19 AM
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] border crossings and rules of road

I have just returned to Thailand after 10 days in Laos.
Crossed into Vientiane by Friendship Bridge.
Traffic drives on the left (ie Thai rules) acoss the entire bridge, and the 2 lanes separate at the Laos end of the bridge, then cross over each other at an X intersection with a traffic light, before the Laos lane enters the Lao customs/immigration area (and for Thai-bound trafic, immediately after leaving the Laos customs/immigration area, and before it gets onto the bridge).
Signs in English (and Thai/Lao) warn of the change in rules of the road at the approach to the X intersection.
Traffic is not heavy, so the lights were not in use.
Pedestraiasn are not allowed on the bridge. There is no footpath. One lan of traffic in each direction. In addition, a Railway line runs in the middle of the bridge from the Thai side, but the tracks stop halfway across. Laos has never committed the money to continuing them on its side.
There are therefore still no railays at all in Laos.

I also crossed at Chongmek, between Pakse (Laos) and Ubon Ratchathani (Thailand) in the south of Laos. Laos and Thai traffic can cross here,but is light enough that after customs on each side, there is no official signs (at least in English) saying which side to drive on. A 2-lane road crosses the boundary, but only the left hand side (Laos) [ie right hand side for Thailand drivers] had the double-gate open. Thus driving from Laos to Thailand (from the right hand side to left), you drive to the line on the right, through the gate on the left and stay on the left.
Likewise for Thais entering Laos, you drive up to the line on the left, across the line on the right and stay on the right.

French wine (and Chinese wine) is dirt cheap on the Lao side of this crossing, while Lao wine (which  I prefer) was hard to find!

As with my crossing here last year, there seems to be no official border pillars. At least the pillars the guards pointed out to us were just fence posts or highway distance markers.

The Lao/Cam/Thai tripoint is still off limits due to UXO as much as anything.

Thai maps of this area are off limits (supposedly so the hais don't offend Laos/Cambodia ith their preferred location of the border), even the censored civilian-issue 1:50,000 series, and the 1:250,000 series. Yet Lao happily sells its 1:200,000 and 1:100,000 sheets...

I walked the Singpaore-Malaysia causeway, and there is no nice brass pin or line to show the exact boundary, but the road seal changes at the point where the causeway widens and the 'welcome to malaysia' sign stands (there is no similar welcoming sign in the opther direction: you are farewelled from Malaysia and enter the unwelcoming Republic of Lee!. Yet 5 metres on into Malaysia is a small olympic medal dias sort of thing, with a line painted on it, which presumably used o be where tourists could stand, on each side of the line for photos. But it appeared old and un-used.
I will post photos later when back home.

ON the Malay-Thai crossing at Padang Besa by train, you get of the train, pass thrugh Malay customs at one end o the station, then Thai at the other bfefore reboarding the trian, but this happens entirely within Mlaysia. After reboarding the ain continues north and the entire ail yard is Malay and fenced off from Thailand, and the train passes through a sliding gate into Thailand and north.

Brendan
Jesper Nielsen | 4 Jan 18:16 2005
Picon

Re: border crossings and rules of road

Beautiful account, Brendan.
 
Hope you will share photos as well.
 
Jesper
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 3:19 AM
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] border crossings and rules of road

I have just returned to Thailand after 10 days in Laos.
Crossed into Vientiane by Friendship Bridge.
Traffic drives on the left (ie Thai rules) acoss the entire bridge, and the 2 lanes separate at the Laos end of the bridge, then cross over each other at an X intersection with a traffic light, before the Laos lane enters the Lao customs/immigration area (and for Thai-bound trafic, immediately after leaving the Laos customs/immigration area, and before it gets onto the bridge).
Signs in English (and Thai/Lao) warn of the change in rules of the road at the approach to the X intersection.
Traffic is not heavy, so the lights were not in use.
Pedestraiasn are not allowed on the bridge. There is no footpath. One lan of traffic in each direction. In addition, a Railway line runs in the middle of the bridge from the Thai side, but the tracks stop halfway across. Laos has never committed the money to continuing them on its side.
There are therefore still no railays at all in Laos.

I also crossed at Chongmek, between Pakse (Laos) and Ubon Ratchathani (Thailand) in the south of Laos. Laos and Thai traffic can cross here,but is light enough that after customs on each side, there is no official signs (at least in English) saying which side to drive on. A 2-lane road crosses the boundary, but only the left hand side (Laos) [ie right hand side for Thailand drivers] had the double-gate open. Thus driving from Laos to Thailand (from the right hand side to left), you drive to the line on the right, through the gate on the left and stay on the left.
Likewise for Thais entering Laos, you drive up to the line on the left, across the line on the right and stay on the right.

French wine (and Chinese wine) is dirt cheap on the Lao side of this crossing, while Lao wine (which  I prefer) was hard to find!

As with my crossing here last year, there seems to be no official border pillars. At least the pillars the guards pointed out to us were just fence posts or highway distance markers.

The Lao/Cam/Thai tripoint is still off limits due to UXO as much as anything.

Thai maps of this area are off limits (supposedly so the hais don't offend Laos/Cambodia ith their preferred location of the border), even the censored civilian-issue 1:50,000 series, and the 1:250,000 series. Yet Lao happily sells its 1:200,000 and 1:100,000 sheets...

I walked the Singpaore-Malaysia causeway, and there is no nice brass pin or line to show the exact boundary, but the road seal changes at the point where the causeway widens and the 'welcome to malaysia' sign stands (there is no similar welcoming sign in the opther direction: you are farewelled from Malaysia and enter the unwelcoming Republic of Lee!. Yet 5 metres on into Malaysia is a small olympic medal dias sort of thing, with a line painted on it, which presumably used o be where tourists could stand, on each side of the line for photos. But it appeared old and un-used.
I will post photos later when back home.

ON the Malay-Thai crossing at Padang Besa by train, you get of the train, pass thrugh Malay customs at one end o the station, then Thai at the other bfefore reboarding the trian, but this happens entirely within Mlaysia. After reboarding the ain continues north and the entire ail yard is Malay and fenced off from Thailand, and the train passes through a sliding gate into Thailand and north.

Brendan
aletheia kallos | 4 Jan 18:24 2005
Picon

crystal river fl

back in my regular oracular stream & seat now here in crystal ball gazing country
along the special strip where federal routes 19&98 commingle for a while & where you may recall the original us98 inaugural tour from palm beach to natchez back in 1998 was primarily & originally so bedazzled by these combined route number markers 
 
& the intersection of this now outdated & twin escutcheoned 1998 highway
with the signposted 
follow that dream parkway
as in the elvis movie by that title which was filmed alongside it
is just up the road from here in inglis
& was also just found again this morning in its regular excellent condition
 
indeed it struck me today as something of a ground zero & crosshairs point
in plain inglis
for all subsequent new years inaugural tours or all subsequent dreams for that matter
 
 
& so 
a few straggling but still possibly significant details from the recent 2005 augurial 
 
various auspiciously worded signs announcing
an international learning center
a feed lot
green acres
hay for sale
baling
plowing
seeding
 
 
a hysterical marker break about midway 
compliments of the thc
i kid you not
 
thats the
texas historical commission
 
which actually began to hold forth on its official looking black plaque as follows
 
 
a pioneer community named lookout began to develop in this area traversed by the lampasas river & nearby lookout mountain
yikes
during the 1870s & 1880s
etc etc
&
lookout school
i again kid you not
opened about a mile southeast of here in the late 1870s
etc etc
& closed in 1921
with the students going to nearby pottsville
etc etc
 
for i quit copying there for a long postponed laugh & thc break myself
 
 
a community in an area traversed by a mountain
i resumed in my reverie
which then diverged there from the authoritative text
& they called it lookout because they were always on the lookout for the damn mountain
 
& lookout no longer exists today because one day when the mountain was traversing their area they plum forgot to look out for it
 
 
meanwhile in downtown goldthwaite
so technically not really a part of the 2005 tour
tho of course still a part of the
cay to shining key & 86ing prohibition & magical mystery megapointing miniexpedition
& memorable in its own right anyway 
was a deserted public park that actually announced itself as follows
 
 
loitering in any form is prohibited in park
 
& as if that wasnt enough
it continued
 
fines of not less than 1 dollar nor more than 200 dollars
 
 
& it seemed highly effective on this sunny holiday afternoon
just when you might expect maximum park use
 
 
i supposed the amount of the fine would naturally depend on the form of the loitering
 
like say picnicking or mapreading in the park with your engine idling like i was doing might only be a dollar
but anyone actually found leaving their car in park & then idly shuffling about at all on foot in the park anywhere outside the parking area would begin at 5 dollars
etc
etc
 
 
i had to admit it seemed like a good system
 
graduated fines instead of use fees
 
& that way the heavier forms of loiterers should & would naturally pay more of the cost of maintaining the park than the lighter forms of loiterers
 
& since these are criminal violations
everyone might feel just a little more inhibited about even going there
as it seemed
except for me 
let alone slowing down or stopping there
when the actual loitering would kick in
 
so the park will remain in mint condition & run smoothly at practically no cost to anyone
 
 
but anyway i made good my escape directly without being fined or even observed i think
 
 
& anyway again 
i see by all the palm trees now that this little tour is no longer in texas & is indeed already getting near the end
by whatever name anyone may choose to call it
simply because i will soon be running out of warm real estate
 
 
& i dont believe there are any untried megapoints anywhere south of here
tho i will be sure to wave high salutes en passant to laorospo in downtown toontown
which bp oldtimers know well as bp ground zero itself
& also & especially to our beloved maximegapoint glhemaokpa
both of which are almost on the direct route to the final destination of this portion of the tour
mig torch key
 
 
but now for a little r&r hereabouts
in preparation for the last leg of this er leg
 
 

Do you Yahoo!?
Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
pete2784west | 4 Jan 21:33 2005
Picon

Tripoint Deutsches Reich - Schweiz - Österreich 1927


Hallo everybody and Happy New Year!

Now to the point. I happened to come across an old road map which 
covers Germany as it looked liked in 1927. Then, the tripoint 
between Germany, Austria and Switzerland have been an intersection 
of three lines being placed right at the mouth of Rhein river to the 
Bodensee. The borderline between Germany and Austria in Bodensee 
have been created by a straight line between the point where the 
German-Austrian border leaves land and the point where it meets 
Austrian-Swiss border following the Rhein river. Also, the border 
between Switzerland and Austria shows that it was not the thalweg, 
midstream or whatever in the water of Rhein river, but that the 
entire Rhein river including all river islands were part of 
Switzerland. Austria began on the right shore of Rhein river. So the 
tripoint between these countries have been the tip of the right bank 
of Rhein river. This means a point which is in fact half wet-half 
dry.
It has certainly been topic here before. I just wondered when did 
the countries left this (today a ghost) tripoint?

Petter

 
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aletheiak | 5 Jan 00:50 2005
Picon

Re: border crossings and rules of road


yes i concur with my colleague here about your roads scholarship 
brendan
& especially appreciate the fresh field report 
while on the road itself

also 
as tasteful a dismissal of the multipoint at the heart of the story 
as i have ever heard

so keep up the great play & lets hear from you as much as possible now

--- In BoundaryPoint@..., "Jesper Nielsen" <jesniel <at> i...> 
wrote:
> Beautiful account, Brendan.
> 
> Hope you will share photos as well.
> 
> Jesper
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: bwhyte <at> u... 
>   To: BoundaryPoint@... 
>   Sent: Tuesday, January 04, 2005 3:19 AM
>   Subject: [BoundaryPoint] border crossings and rules of road
> 
> 
>   I have just returned to Thailand after 10 days in Laos.
>   Crossed into Vientiane by Friendship Bridge.
>   Traffic drives on the left (ie Thai rules) acoss the entire 
bridge, and the 2 lanes separate at the Laos end of the bridge, then 
cross over each other at an X intersection with a traffic light, 
before the Laos lane enters the Lao customs/immigration area (and for 
Thai-bound trafic, immediately after leaving the Laos 
customs/immigration area, and before it gets onto the bridge).
>   Signs in English (and Thai/Lao) warn of the change in rules of 
the road at the approach to the X intersection.
>   Traffic is not heavy, so the lights were not in use.
>   Pedestraiasn are not allowed on the bridge. There is no footpath. 
One lan of traffic in each direction. In addition, a Railway line 
runs in the middle of the bridge from the Thai side, but the tracks 
stop halfway across. Laos has never committed the money to continuing 
them on its side.
>   There are therefore still no railays at all in Laos.
> 
>   I also crossed at Chongmek, between Pakse (Laos) and Ubon 
Ratchathani (Thailand) in the south of Laos. Laos and Thai traffic 
can cross here,but is light enough that after customs on each side, 
there is no official signs (at least in English) saying which side to 
drive on. A 2-lane road crosses the boundary, but only the left hand 
side (Laos) [ie right hand side for Thailand drivers] had the double-
gate open. Thus driving from Laos to Thailand (from the right hand 
side to left), you drive to the line on the right, through the gate 
on the left and stay on the left.
>   Likewise for Thais entering Laos, you drive up to the line on the 
left, across the line on the right and stay on the right.
> 
>   French wine (and Chinese wine) is dirt cheap on the Lao side of 
this crossing, while Lao wine (which  I prefer) was hard to find!
> 
>   As with my crossing here last year, there seems to be no official 
border pillars. At least the pillars the guards pointed out to us 
were just fence posts or highway distance markers.
> 
>   The Lao/Cam/Thai tripoint is still off limits due to UXO as much 
as anything.
> 
>   Thai maps of this area are off limits (supposedly so the hais 
don't offend Laos/Cambodia ith their preferred location of the 
border), even the censored civilian-issue 1:50,000 series, and the 
1:250,000 series. Yet Lao happily sells its 1:200,000 and 1:100,000 
sheets...
> 
>   I walked the Singpaore-Malaysia causeway, and there is no nice 
brass pin or line to show the exact boundary, but the road seal 
changes at the point where the causeway widens and the 'welcome to 
malaysia' sign stands (there is no similar welcoming sign in the 
opther direction: you are farewelled from Malaysia and enter the 
unwelcoming Republic of Lee!. Yet 5 metres on into Malaysia is a 
small olympic medal dias sort of thing, with a line painted on it, 
which presumably used o be where tourists could stand, on each side 
of the line for photos. But it appeared old and un-used.
>   I will post photos later when back home.
> 
>   ON the Malay-Thai crossing at Padang Besa by train, you get of 
the train, pass thrugh Malay customs at one end o the station, then 
Thai at the other bfefore reboarding the trian, but this happens 
entirely within Mlaysia. After reboarding the ain continues north and 
the entire ail yard is Malay and fenced off from Thailand, and the 
train passes through a sliding gate into Thailand and north.
> 
>   Brendan
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
----------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BoundaryPoint/
>       
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>     BoundaryPoint-unsubscribe@...
>       
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
Service.

 
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aletheiak | 5 Jan 01:27 2005
Picon

Re: border crossings and rules of road


--- In BoundaryPoint@..., "Richard Lam" 
<richardlam11 <at> h...> wrote:
> Brendan,
> 
> I am amazed that you missed the blue on white "Tow Away Zone" sign 
on the Singapore side of the causeway immediately after our border. 
It is the first Singapore traffic sign as you leave Malaysia. There 
is actaully a welcome sign on this side of the bridge if you know 
where to look. Near the flag pole at the immigration building, a sign 
from the traffic police sign says "Singapore welcomes safe drivers" 
or something to that effect.
> 
> I seem to remember a border counting rule which discounts borders 
on bridges or similar structures. 

this & your following comments are a good jest &or a puzzlement

but i am very curious to know

do you mean to indicate that the idmy boundary shown in part here in 
the selat johor is somehow less definite as a whole than the idsy 
maritime boundary also shown here in the singapore strait & indicated 
as agreed upon
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/world_cities/singaporeb.jpg

& in any case questions have arisen about the correct positions of 
the idmysg tricountry points 
east & west
last heard from in message 11124

so can you offer any current resident expert opinion especially about 
these too

I presume that with the causeway, one can't be too careful. There 
appears to be a willingness to let the border be "undefined" (I use 
the word loosely here) as far as the bridge is concern so as to avoid 
further disagreements.

 
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Gmane