Lowell G. McManus | 1 Jun 03:23 2004
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Sawanobori of the Calcasieu

During the time between the Louisiana Purchase of 1803 and the Adams-de Onís
Treaty of 1819, the location of the boundary between American Louisiana and
Spanish Texas was uncertain.  While the diplomats and politicians wasted time
and accomplished little, the respective American and Spanish generals in the
region took matters into their own hands and established a de-facto neutral zone
by signed agreement.  The eastern boundary of this zone ascended the west bank
of the Calcasieu River from mouth to head before heading directly overland to
another stream farther north.

About 20 years ago, as an experiment in demarcation, I decided to locate the
head of the Calcasieu River on the landscape.  It's about 14 miles northeast of
here, at the red crossmark on the TopoZone map at http://tinyurl.com/2k56z .
It's a pine forest, kept clear of underbrush by controlled burning, so it was
easy to access the streamcourse from a woods road on a nearby ridge.

I didn't know whether to expect a spring or what, but the actual course was dry
for a few hundred yards above the first moisture.  It was obviously a
streamcourse kept bare of vegetation by flowing water, at least when it rains.
Since the generals' agreement placed the boundary on the west bank of the river,
I applied the theory that a stream's bed is distinguished from its bank by the
lack of vegetation.  Therefore, I concluded that the official head of the river
should be placed at the upper end of its bed, thus defined.  Since any line from
that point to the ridge would have had no west bank, I saw not need for the
boundary to go there.

The several other imaginary boundary commissioners concurred with my decision.

Lowell G. McManus
Leesville, Louisiana, USA

(Continue reading)

acroorca2002 | 1 Jun 15:35 2004

Re: Sawanobori of the Calcasieu

brilliant as well as lovely

as well as very lucky to find such ideal conditions 
for so piquant & boundarypointed a shower climb 
so close to home
i should add
while still bleary eyed on the morning after my first round of 
thames source drinking tries 
which i will get around to reporting in another message if i ever 
sober up

but let me insert some kibitzes below too

--- In BoundaryPoint@..., "Lowell G. McManus" 
<mcmanus71496@...> wrote:
> During the time between the Louisiana Purchase of 1803 and 
the Adams-de Onís
> Treaty of 1819, the location of the boundary between American 
Louisiana and
> Spanish Texas was uncertain.  While the diplomats and 
politicians wasted time
> and accomplished little, the respective American and Spanish 
generals in the
> region took matters into their own hands and established a 
de-facto neutral zone
> by signed agreement.  The eastern boundary of this zone 
ascended the west bank
> of the Calcasieu River from mouth to head before heading 
directly overland to
> another stream farther north.
(Continue reading)

acroorca2002 | 1 Jun 15:37 2004

Re: Sawanobori of the Calcasieu

brilliant as well as lovely

as well as very lucky to find such ideal conditions 
for so piquant & boundarypointed a shower climb 
so close to home
i should add
while still bleary eyed on the morning after my first round of 
thames source drinking tries 
which i will get around to reporting in another message if i ever 
sober up

but let me insert some kibitzes below too

--- In BoundaryPoint@..., "Lowell G. McManus" 
<mcmanus71496@...> wrote:
> During the time between the Louisiana Purchase of 1803 and 
the Adams-de Onís
> Treaty of 1819, the location of the boundary between American 
Louisiana and
> Spanish Texas was uncertain.  While the diplomats and 
politicians wasted time
> and accomplished little, the respective American and Spanish 
generals in the
> region took matters into their own hands and established a 
de-facto neutral zone
> by signed agreement.  The eastern boundary of this zone 
ascended the west bank
> of the Calcasieu River from mouth to head before heading 
directly overland to
> another stream farther north.
(Continue reading)

Michael Donner | 1 Jun 17:37 2004
Picon

the sky opened up on our sawanabori

thanx again lowell & theia too
i like them both

an online japanese english dictionary agrees nobori means ascent
while incidentally denying nabori means anything at all

& for sawa
this dictionary gives swamp or marsh or valley or dale

so perhaps sawa nobori really refers to the ascent of any valley
& not necessarily only a particularly high or steep or wet one

in any case it was indeed already showering as we climbed gently out of the 
greater hartford area
& by the time i could find a suitable place to duck into the bushes for a 
rest stop
i was surprised to find myself standing over a perfectly idyllic little 
canoe stream
which
when i finally consulted the map
proved to be none other than the willimantic river
in fact just below stafford springs

i guess that stop marked the unofficial start of the physical sawanobori

but wondering also where to officially start double checking my guesses
i inspected first the confluence of furnace brook & middle river in downtown 
stafford springs
where a great blue heron i flushed gave me my start

(Continue reading)

Jesper Nielsen | 1 Jun 18:16 2004
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Four seasons quadropoints

Sounds like a pizza, doesn't it?
 
Well, have you wondered where you can stand in four seasons at the same time? Probably not. Well here is the answer:
 
1) On the Columbian-Brazil border:
http://tinyurl.com/25anb
 
 
3) Internal DR Congo: Boundary of Equateur and Orientale
http://tinyurl.com/3hmmj 
 
4) On DR Congo-Uganda border:
http://tinyurl.com/2c5ck
Explanation?
 
From June 1st N of Equator starts summer, S of Equator starts winter
Each N-S boundary about also marks a time zone boundary
so W of the line is one hour behind E of the line.
 
So if you stand in
Columbia N of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's summer
Columbia S of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's winter
Brazil N of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's spring
Brazil S of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's fall
 
How about that?
 
The bad news are that all four points seems hard to reach.
 
Jesper


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acroorca2002 | 1 Jun 20:38 2004

Re: Four seasons quadropoints

nice square pie you twirl maestro
& the good news is 
some maps indicate there may be a fifth slice 
or topping
in borneo
looking not too difficult of access
especially if i could figure out whether it is real 
& if so then where it actually crosses the equator

but what a fab foursome even if there are 5 of them
indeed especially if there are 5 of them
& most especially if any 1of them could really be reached

but yikes i wonder what season would be best for visiting

--- In BoundaryPoint@..., "Jesper Nielsen" 
<jesniel@...> wrote:
> Sounds like a pizza, doesn't it?
> 
> Well, have you wondered where you can stand in four seasons 
at the same time? Probably not. Well here is the answer:
> 
> 1) On the Columbian-Brazil border:
> http://tinyurl.com/25anb
> 
> 2) Internal Brazil: Boundary of Para and Amapa:
> http://www.brazilhouston.org/ingles/fusohora.gif
> http://bloggle.com/coffee/brazil-map.jpg
> http://tinyurl.com/2qsj8
> 
> 3) Internal DR Congo: Boundary of Equateur and Orientale
> http://tinyurl.com/3hmmj 
> 
> 4) On DR Congo-Uganda border:
> http://tinyurl.com/2c5ck
> 
> Explanation?
> 
> From June 1st N of Equator starts summer, S of Equator starts 
winter
> Each N-S boundary about also marks a time zone boundary
> so W of the line is one hour behind E of the line.
> 
> So if you stand in 
> Columbia N of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's 
summer
> Columbia S of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's winter
> Brazil N of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's spring
> Brazil S of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's fall
> 
> How about that?
> 
> The bad news are that all four points seems hard to reach.
> 
> Jesper

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m donner | 1 Jun 21:00 2004
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historic kpkr talks could order seafood condo or clave islet platter tomorrow

http://www.koreaherald.co.kr/SITE/data/html_dir/2004/06/02/200406020006.asp

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Jesper Nielsen | 1 Jun 21:02 2004
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Re: Re: Four seasons quadropoints

Why do you think Borneo has a timezone boundary?
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 8:38 PM
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Re: Four seasons quadropoints

nice square pie you twirl maestro
& the good news is
some maps indicate there may be a fifth slice
or topping
in borneo
looking not too difficult of access
especially if i could figure out whether it is real
& if so then where it actually crosses the equator

but what a fab foursome even if there are 5 of them
indeed especially if there are 5 of them
& most especially if any 1of them could really be reached

but yikes i wonder what season would be best for visiting

--- In BoundaryPoint-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org, "Jesper Nielsen"
<jesniel-VVqs6mkl6rE@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> Sounds like a pizza, doesn't it?
>
> Well, have you wondered where you can stand in four seasons
at the same time? Probably not. Well here is the answer:
>
> 1) On the Columbian-Brazil border:
> http://tinyurl.com/25anb
>
> 2) Internal Brazil: Boundary of Para and Amapa:
> http://www.brazilhouston.org/ingles/fusohora.gif
> http://bloggle.com/coffee/brazil-map.jpg
> http://tinyurl.com/2qsj8
>
> 3) Internal DR Congo: Boundary of Equateur and Orientale
> http://tinyurl.com/3hmmj
>
> 4) On DR Congo-Uganda border:
> http://tinyurl.com/2c5ck
>
> Explanation?
>
> From June 1st N of Equator starts summer, S of Equator starts
winter
> Each N-S boundary about also marks a time zone boundary
> so W of the line is one hour behind E of the line.
>
> So if you stand in
> Columbia N of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's
summer
> Columbia S of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's winter
> Brazil N of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's spring
> Brazil S of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's fall
>
> How about that?
>
> The bad news are that all four points seems hard to reach.
>
> Jesper




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raedwulf16 | 1 Jun 21:05 2004
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machias seal


http://www.coastguides.com/r6/r6.html?http%
3A//www.coastguides.com/r6/6.45MachiasSeal.html
http://home.comcast.net/~sacnin/images/map3.jpg
http://www.med.mcgill.ca/alumnicorner/images/BT3,%
20S3.jpg            
http://www.mainebirding.net/puffin/norton/msi_patch.jpg              

http://www.surfbirds.com/media/Photos/sbflight.jpg                   

http://www.siue.edu/GEOGRAPHY/ONLINE/Schmidt.htm                     
 http://robert.carceller.free.fr/lum20/phare/machias.jpeg   
REMOTE, fascinating Machias Seal Island lies 10 miles southeast of 
Cutler and almost equidistant from Grand Manan Island to the 
northeast. The island is tiny, a mere 15-acre speck on the chart, 
but both the United States and Canada claim it as theirs, and they 
have disputed it for more than a century and a half. 
COPYRIGHT 2002 DIAMOND PASS PUBLISHING
It is hard to imagine why the sovereignty of this scrap of land is 
in contention, but it is, and the outcome probably will be decided 
at the International Court of Justice in The Hague several thousand 
miles to the east. If it was simply a question of which flag should 
fly at the lighthouse, if would be fairly ludicrous, but nowadays, 
with the 200-mile limit and fishing rights at stake, the issues are 
more serious.
COPYRIGHT 2002 DIAMOND PASS PUBLISHING
Apparently, American sovereignty of the island was confirmed in both 
the 1783 Treaty of Paris and in the Treaty of Ghent, which ended the 
War of 1812*. But by the time of the Civil War, it was in dispute 
again. The American known as "Tall Barney" claimed Machias Seal and 
the surrounding waters in 1865 and single-handedly defended them 
against a landing of Canadian officers in the spring of that year. 
But Canadian merchants from Saint John with shipping interests had 
already established a lighthouse here in 1832, and eventually the 
lighthouse was taken over by the Canadian government. They now claim 
that the operation of the lighthouse established "effective 
territorial occupation." See below for the latest in this dispute.
IF YOU ARE READING THIS, YOU HAVE VIOLATED

What is not in dispute is who the island really belongs to—the 
seabirds. As noted in the Canadian Sailing Directions, "Machias Seal 
Island is home to five species of breeding seabirds: puffins, 
razorbills, petrels, arctic and common terns. It is one of the 
largest known colonies of arctic terns on the east coast of North 
America and the largest razorbill and puffin colony south of 
Newfoundland." If you want to see the spectacular bird population, 
come early in the summer, because they will have migrated by mid-
August.
INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT LAW. 
For years several commercial operators have made runs to Machias 
Seal from mainland ports. Andy Patterson sails out of Cutler (259-
4484), Captain Butch Huntley operates out of Lubec (733-5584), and 
Preston Wilcox operates out of Seal Cove on Grand Manan Island (506-
662-8296). The Maine Audubon Society also sponsors occasional trips.
PLEASE RESPECT AND SUPPORT THE WORK THAT HAS 
Perhaps the best known skipper is Captain Barna Norton who operates 
out of Jonesport (497-5933). Captain Norton has long been a champion 
of American ownership of the island and can even trace his ownership 
of the island to his great-grandfather, Barna Beal, none other than 
the one they called "Tall Barney." Once when Captain Norton rowed 
ashore brandishing the stars and stripes, a Royal Canadian Mounted 
Police helicopter swooped down and buzzed the island in retaliation.
BROUGHT YOU THIS INFORMATION. BUY THE GUIDE!
In the spring of 2001, however, the Canadian Wildlife Service 
suddenly prohibited visitors to the island. Tour operators were 
furious, and vowed to keep bringing birdwatchers to the waters close 
by.
COPYRIGHT 2002 DIAMOND PASS PUBLISHING
You can get to Machias Seal Island in your own boat, too. Even if 
you can't get ashore, you will see plenty of puffins. Cutler is the 
most convenient point of departure. Set your course directly for 
Machias Seal. The 82-foot lighthouse is visible for 14 miles.
COPYRIGHT 2002 DIAMOND PASS PUBLISHING
On the way out you will occasionally see buoys marking bottom 
trawls, sometimes with a radar reflector at one end. You may also 
see fluorescent floats marking the nets beneath. All of these things 
are to be avoided. Be sure to pick up the flashing red bell that 
guards North Shoal and North Rock 2 miles north of Machias Seal 
Island. 
IF YOU ARE READING THIS, YOU HAVE VIOLATED
In July of 1964 the fog horn on Machias Seal sounded continuously 
for 31 days, but don't let that discourage you. The same month the 
following year there was only one day of fog. 
INTERNATIONAL COPYRIGHT LAW. 
The moorings off the island are private and lightweight, and usually 
used by the tour boats. Anchor due east of the lighthouse, in the 
lee of the island, in 9 to 16 feet. If a heavy swell is running, 
anchoring will be difficult. The bottom is rocky and holding 
uncertain. 
PLEASE RESPECT AND SUPPORT THE WORK THAT HAS 
In the event that the rules change and you are allowed to land, use 
extreme caution when landing on the slippery rocks in the swells. 
Take your dinghy ashore to the seaweed-covered rocks and work your 
way cautiously to the wooden plank leading to the ways. As the sign 
says, "Debarcadere Dangereux."
BROUGHT YOU THIS INFORMATION. BUY THE GUIDE!
Even if you can't get ashore, you'll see lots of puffins, auks, and 
terns flying and fishing all around. Be sure to bring your 
binoculars, your camera, and a lot of film.
COPYRIGHT 2002 DIAMOND PASS PUBLISHING
Even before the ban on visitors, the Canadian authorities felt 
strongly that human intrusion adversely affected the nesting birds. 
They had imposed a strict limit of 30 visitors per day. If you were 
number 31, you were not allowed to land. The commercial skippers 
made predawn departures and radio calls to be sure of being included 
in the quota. They noted with wry satisfaction that yachts tended to 
arrive in the afternoon.
COPYRIGHT 2002 DIAMOND PASS PUBLISHING

* Robert Godfrey writes:

I don't believe that the Treaty of Ghent addressed the nationality 
of Machias Seal Island, although it definitely authorizes the 
Boundary Commission to establish sovereignty of that area. I've been 
unable to find reference to the island in the treaty records 
available online. The Treaties of 1908 and 1910 refined boundaries 
down to the middle of Grand Manan Channel, but not further south. 
Also, an International Court of Justice defined the boundary 
beginning 10-minutes to the south of Machias Seal Island, and 
traveling southward. I can't find treaty reference to the area 
specific to the island. It would be interesting to discuss this with 
an expert on the international boundary issues, and to see more 
documents regarding the "grey zone."

The latest in the US/Canadian territorial dispute:

A 110-square-mile area off Grand Manan remains in dispute between 
Canada and the United States. Traditionally, Maine fishermen have 
lobstered in these waters during the summer months, when the 
Canadian lobster season is closed. But some of the Grand Manan 
fishermen claim that when their lobster season opens in November, 
the lobsters are already fished out by the Americans. In response, 
the Canadian Government has recently decided to allow out-of-season 
fishing off Grand Manan. Many of Grand Manan's 132 licensed 
lobstermen oppose the decision, however. They claim that nobody's 
catch is going down, they don't want a summer fishery, and they want 
to keep peace with the Americans. What most of the fishermen would 
have preferred was a negotiated settlement over out of season 
fishing with the Americans, but that didn't happen.

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Flynn, Kevin | 1 Jun 21:08 2004

RE: Four seasons quadropoints

It wouldn't be on June 1; it would be at the precise clock time on June 20 or 21, whenever the equinox is. The official start of the new season is the precise point in time when the sun crosses the line of the equator, not a particular day.
-----Original Message-----
From: Jesper Nielsen [mailto:jesniel-1hX1yeazVJ0@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Tuesday, June 01, 2004 10:17 AM
To: BoundaryPoint-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@public.gmane.org
Subject: [BoundaryPoint] Four seasons quadropoints

Sounds like a pizza, doesn't it?
 
Well, have you wondered where you can stand in four seasons at the same time? Probably not. Well here is the answer:
 
1) On the Columbian-Brazil border:
http://tinyurl.com/25anb
 
 
3) Internal DR Congo: Boundary of Equateur and Orientale
http://tinyurl.com/3hmmj 
 
4) On DR Congo-Uganda border:
http://tinyurl.com/2c5ck
Explanation?
 
From June 1st N of Equator starts summer, S of Equator starts winter
Each N-S boundary about also marks a time zone boundary
so W of the line is one hour behind E of the line.
 
So if you stand in
Columbia N of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's summer
Columbia S of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's winter
Brazil N of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's spring
Brazil S of equator at 00.30 am Columbian time it's fall
 
How about that?
 
The bad news are that all four points seems hard to reach.
 
Jesper



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