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Eric McCaughrin | 1 Jun 2005 01:00
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Re: [ebbc-talk] Re: The High Cost of BART


--- Roger Marquis <marquis@...> wrote:
> 
> You may be forgetting that Concord and Richmond were
> also outlying stations when they were built, 
> serving relatively few passengers at that time.  
> Why would you build for today's capacity when you 
> know that demand will only continue to grow?

Actually, BART will soon be maxed-out on the
Concord line. BART's predictions show that within
about 10 years, nobody will be able to board a train
beyond Rockridge during the morning commute. 

By contrast, the "RER" example I mentioned moves 
several million passengers per day. Each double-
decker, 8-car RER trainset carries 3,600 passengers, 
vs. 1500 per 10-car BART trainset.

> 
> > For lower-density areas, conventional rail is the
> > norm. For very little money, an existing freight
> > line can be upgraded to passenger rail standards, 
> > by refurbishing the rails and ballast, installing
> > platforms, and purchasing a few trainsets.
> 
> What existing freight lines are you referring to?

Much of BART was laid out along existing ROW; i.e.
http://world.nycsubway.org/perl/show?19659
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Tony Godshall | 1 Jun 2005 01:23

Re: [ebbc-talk] Re: The High Cost of BART


Plus the BART runs regularly enough that if you miss it you
can still make your plain, if a bit out of breath.

I do agree that the signage could be better.

And encouraging everyone to take the people-mover thingy is
just dumb.  It's quicker to walk, even to domestic Northwest 
and Delta, than to do the silly go upstairs, wait, and then 
walk a ways across a parking lot, take the elevator down, walk 
a ways under, and then escalator up twice.  Plus, it's a joy 
to walk through the glorious new international terminal.

According to Emily Nalven,
> I have taken the BART to SFO and, yes the signage is poor.  HOWEVER, it was 
> so much easier than taking the SamTrans bus (BX).  There's always room on 
> the BART once you pass the Market Street stops and you don't have to wait 
> on line in inclement weather for the bus.
> 
> When I have to fly out of SFO (I always try Oakland first), I always take 
> the BART.  For a non-car owner, it is a huge energy and frustration saver.
> 
> That's my penny.
> 
> At 01:16 PM 5/31/2005, Kevin Dalley wrote:
> >Lee Amosslee <lee@...> writes:
> >
> >> While there are problems with the system, I have ridden BART since its
> >> opening day and have enjoyed using it to commute as far as Hayward and
> >> San Jose (with a transfer to Santa Clara county transit buses). The new
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Tony Godshall | 1 Jun 2005 01:34

Re: [ebbc-talk] Urban Transportation, Friday June 3 at the Commonwealth Club

According to Roger Marquis,
> >You're thinking of the Paris Metro (which covers the 36 square miles of 
> >the city). The RER covers most of suburban Paris, with lines going 30 to 
> >40 miles out from the center, including destinations such as the main 
> >airport and Euro Disney. Actual rail lines cover the far suburbs and 
> >provide express service to some points also served by the RER.
> 
> No, no.  The Metro is completely different, and much older, with
> stations every few blocks.  You could nearly walk from one end of a
> Metro line to the other in a day.  The RER goes farther, and has
> nice electronic ticket machines and regular rails, like MUNI.  RER
> line D is the longest, barely reaching my old hangout Creil/Senlis
> (50km/30mi).

Mexico City's French-designed Metro serves an area larger 
than BART, tho admittedly more dense.  Interestingly, the 
newest line (Metro Ferrero), that is perhaps the most like 
BART in the sense of being a branch with stops further apart 
serving a slightly less dense area, was done with conventional 
steel wheels instead of the quiet rubber tires that made the 
Metro special compared with traditional subways... it looks 
like they are giving up some of the gee-wiz concepts to save 
money.

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Jon Spangler | 1 Jun 2005 01:57
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[ebbc-talk] Help Decide Alameda Point's Development Options: June 8, 6:30 PM, Mastick Senior Center

Dear Friends,

On Wednesday evening, June 8, the public will have its first 
opportunity to help evaluate the two Preliminary Design Concepts for 
developing Alameda Point. The community meeting will be at Mastick 
Senior Center from 6:30 - 9:30 p.m.:

Community Meeting to present the draft
Preliminary Development Concept
Wednesday, June 8, 2005
Mastick Senior Center
1155 Santa Clara Ave.
6:30 p.m. - 9:30 p.m.

This will be the public's first opportunity to evaluate the two 
options (one is Measure A-compliant, one is not) for developing 
Alameda Point. (Previous sessions have been held in order to either 
gather public input or to present information to the public. 
Attendees at the June 8 session will get to "vote" on how well the 
two Preliminary Design Concepts conform to the General Plan and, in 
particular, the Alameda Point General Plan Amendment.

For more information on the previous sessions and the issues, see:

http://www.alameda-point.com/pdccm.html

To offer comments or ask questions before or after June 8, please call or email
Planner Andrew Thomas  at:

Email: athomas@... / Phone: 510.747.6881
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Marcy | 1 Jun 2005 02:16
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Marcy <imgreen03@...>

[ebbc-talk] Re: [bfbc] Bike exchange?

Ah!  Well, at least that way everyone knows they aren't selling stolen 
goods!
Marcy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Eric Forno" <eforno@...>
To: <bfbc-talk@...>; <ebbc-talk@...>
Cc: <sunsu@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 3:43 PM
Subject: Re: [bfbc] Bike exchange?

> The Bent Spoke sells used bikes that they buy from police auctions (they
> don't buy from individuals) at their store on Telegraph at 63rd (or 62nd) 
> in
> North Oakland.
> -Eric Forno
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Coolidge" <dacoolidge@...>
> To: <bfbc-talk@...>; <ebbc-talk@...>
> Cc: <sunsu@...>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 10:30 AM
> Subject: [bfbc] Bike exchange?
>
>
>> A friend has a good quality lightweight road bike and wants to replace it
>> with a touring bike.  He asked me if there were any dealers in high-grade
>> used equipment in the area.  I don't think Karim's would be an answer for
>> him, but that's the only used bike dealer I know of.   Does anyone else
> have
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YehudaSherman | 1 Jun 2005 02:50
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Re: [ebbc-talk] Caldecott meetings

I, Yehuda Sherman, will probably attend the Tues evening, June 7, talk at  
the Orinda Community Center, altho I have heard the talk twice already.  It  is 
informative, and is conducted mainly by an attractive young woman who speaks  
with a slight accent, -- which I learned was Brazilian, upon asking her.   She 
is a pleasant lady, and is the project manager for the 4th bore.   
No, unfortunately, there will not be anything for us bicyclists, altho I  
understand that we can ask for "mitigation" measures.
Yehuda Sherman 
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Marcy | 1 Jun 2005 06:31
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Marcy <imgreen03@...>

[ebbc-talk] Re: [bfbc] Bike exchange?

Right, guess I meant, should have said "hot", as in recently stolen, as in 
Karim's.

Marcy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Muzzy" <blmuzzy@...>
To: "Marcy" <imgreen03@...>; "Eric Forno"
<eforno@...>; 
<bfbc-talk@...>; <ebbc-talk@...>
Cc: <sunsu@...>
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 6:19 PM
Subject: RE: [bfbc] Bike exchange?

Um, no.  Many of the bikes the police end up with have been stolen and
the owner hasn't been located.  A friend of mine got his back from the
BPD last year in this situation.

-----Original Message-----
From: Marcy [mailto:imgreen03@...]
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 5:17 PM
To: Eric Forno; bfbc-talk@...; ebbc-talk@...
Cc: sunsu@...
Subject: Re: [bfbc] Bike exchange?

Ah!  Well, at least that way everyone knows they aren't selling stolen
goods!
Marcy

----- Original Message -----
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Doug Faunt N6TQS +1-510-655-8604 | 1 Jun 2005 11:24
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Re: [ebbc-talk] BART- Off Track?

   From: "Mike Jones" <mkjcal@...>
   Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 15:30:57 -0700

   The Russians also use a "wide" gauge. Perhaps it was a commie plot? We are 
   talking about the 60's when these decisions were made!

The story is that the Russians did it to deter invasion by rail.
OTOH, Brunel used a wide gauge for the GWR for apparently sound
technical reasons.

I find SFO and OAK to be about equal in desireability, although I live
in Oakland, since I hate the transition from BART to bus at the
Coliseum.  Of course, I fly enough so unfamiliarity is not a problem.

   The cynical answer is that it was done on purpose by the consultants, to
   lock BART into proprietary, more expensive equipment.  It also
   guarantees that BART and other trains will never share tracks, which
   probably seemed like a good idea at the time.

   Even the somewhat similar DC Metro uses standard guage.

73, doug

who is in London and loves his Oyster Card.
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Ken Bradley | 1 Jun 2005 04:48

[ebbc-talk] BART?

BART?
BART is a politically correct sham!  The last thing our present government wants is really good public
transit.  We have far too many making way too much money from our automotive infrastructure, built and
maintained, largely by our taxes.  Not to mention our soldiers dying overseas! BART will never be cheep and
rapid as it could be until we stop the huge (not obvious to most of us), subsidies to oil, cars and roads. 
No one likes to admit this, but gas is way too cheep in this country! Think about it!  Do the math! &#8220;How
can it cost less to drive 20 miles, single occupant, in a 5000 lb. SUV, than to take the train? Wake up folks!
Too bad for our air, that GB&#8217;s grandfather wasn&#8217;t a railroad man!

--

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Ken Bradley | 1 Jun 2005 01:30
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[ebbc-talk] BART?

BART?
BART is a politically correct sham!  The last thing
our present government wants is really good public
transit. We have far too many making way too much
money from our automotive infrastructure, built and
maintained, largely by our tax dollors.  Not to
mention our soldiers dying overseas! BART will never
be cheep and rapid as it could be, until we stop the
huge (not obvious to most of us), subsidies to oil,
cars and roads. 
No one likes to admit it, but gas is way too cheep in
this country! Think about it! Do the math, &#8220;How
can it cost less to drive 20 miles, single occupant,
in a 5000 lb. SUV, than to take the train? Wake up
folks! Too bad GB&#8217;s grandfather wasn&#8217;t a
railroad man!

		
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